"Virgin shaming": I know we have a lot of "but what about men's problems?" people out there.

[Aurgelmir]

What I always find the most interesting with virgin shaming is the "nerds shaming other nerds" type of comment you find on the internet. I mean you are sort of shaming yoursef, because you know nothing of the other person, and yet you sit there on the internet throwing shame around... Always make me chuckle

Just out of interest, what would you consider to be slut shaming?

Because I got a lot of shit for being turned off by women who were... Well, lets call them promiscuous. I dunno guys, I just cant go into a relationship knowing the woman next to me has slept with more than 20 men, some of them at the same time. It just aint fucking sexy man. I dont want to pressure every woman into being a fucking nun until she meets me at which point she should drop her pants faster than a guy who had taco bell for lunch, but I think a little self control (and respect) isnt always amiss. Just to be clear, I dont refuse to sleep with anyone who is not a virgin like some men out there, but you know.

I unno, think I disagree with you there. Doesn't matter how many people the girl has slept with, as long as she is a nice person that fits my personality

 

[Hagi]

God you make it all sound so solemn and dramatic. Sex isn't some kind of contract and the emotional damage you're talking about stems, I reckon, from people damaged by loneliness and sexual isolation. If we had a healthier attitude to sex it'd be heaps better.

As for this business about STDs and the horror of conception I would advise using protection, although we desperately need to come up with alternative to the condom.

Hardly solemn and dramatic. Merely realistic.

I'm not talking about emotional damage. I'm talking about normal emotions. Sex tends to amplify emotions. For happiness that's great. But it unfortunately also works for sadness.

Casual sex with people you don't really know isn't always based on mutual happiness. There can be a score of emotions and motivations behind it. I'm not saying all of this is your personal responsibility but I am saying that you shouldn't go around sleeping with everyone without a care for the consequences.

Neither am I talking about the 'horror' of conception. I'm merely saying that sex has consequences beyond a single night and that the only attitude towards sex that is required is to be aware of those consequences.

If you're not careful you can get pregnant, you can get STDs, you can have serious regrets and you can feel like shit over it. If you're aware of all those things then it's totally up to you how promiscuous you are.

It's totally fine to sleep with a different stranger every night, as long as you're careful and know what can go wrong.
It's totally fine to wait completely until you're married, as long as you're careful and know what can go wrong.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with a casual attitude on sex if you've had what's basically decent Sex Ed.
But there's a lot wrong with a casual attitude on sex if you haven't had what constitutes basic Sex Ed. That's harmful, both to yourself and others.

And that's the only thing that should be encouraged about sex, Sex Ed. For the rest it should be left totally to each person themselves as to what place they wish to give sex in their lives. Which can be anything from casual entertainment to a deep romantic gesture.

 

[Bertylicious]

snip

Crack, Cocaine, Ecstasy. They can also be pretty awesome.

I'm glad we agree!

Look, we're clearly not going to settle this on this forum. Tell you what; come on over to Amsterdam and we'll get some hookers, some coke and then we'll head down to the university for a big night in.

 

[ablac]

snip

Yes ok how about you invent this magic alternative. Ever heard of Freud? Much of psychology is related to sex and that can mean people feel strongly when its present in their lives. It can affect people and your arrogance to claim a theory of psychology oyu invented holds any ground, by your own admission you have no expertise, is insulting and degrading to the scraps of an argument you have.

Steady on now. It's not like I was suggesting free love with your mum or something.

All I'm saying is that sex is great and makes people happy. Is that so terrible?

Actually, I guess I am suggesting free love with your mum. Is that what is so upsetting?

Im gonna stop now, you're a lost cause. Why do you come to a discussion forum if you simply wish to trivialise everything anyone says? I never suggested it was free love you were asking for nor sex with my mum, though you said that because you cant come up with an actual counter argument because your too busy mouth-breathing. Merely that not everyone shares your views and that you were being fairly arrogant and ignorant about you own views. You encourage irresponsibility and I tried to press you on your points but you threw it back in my face rather than grow some and argue back.

 

[hooksashands]

Well if it isn't the Escapist's own Valerie Solanas. Hi. Thanks for stopping in for the 50th time to remind us we're sexist. Can't wait for your next thread. Maybe you can talk about how the shape of ice cream popsicles are secretly brainwashing children to worship an all-powerful phallic symbol and thus drag our society down into a dark age of brutal male supremacy. Jesus titty-fucking Christ.

You are a person, not a gender. I hope one day you stop burning bras long enough to realize this.

 

[PatrickXD]

17 year old white male,
I have yet to see any virgin shaming among my peers over the age of around 16. It could just be the fact that the people who I hang out with generally aren't into the 'alpha male' mentality. Slut shaming is also not a part of my life in any way. If a girl (or a guy) enjoys having sex, and isn't harming anyone, then who the heck am I to judge them for doing what they want to do?
Again, this is probably just due to the fact that my peers are all similarly open minded, as I am.

 

[Bertylicious]

snip

Alright, I'm sorry. I was feeling playful and felt the only way to move the discussion forward was to lampoon it a bit.

I just don't believe that it is impossible to not go out and have fun whilst at the same time living responsibly, by which I mean being able to create and sustain long term relationships with other people.

Edit: I also believe that life should be about joy. Yes, there are risks both emotional and physical but that shouldn't prevent us from living life to its fullest.

 

[Bertylicious]

Well if it isn't the Escapist's own Valerie Solanas. Hi. Thanks for stopping in for the 50th time to remind us we're sexist. Can't wait for your next thread. Maybe you can talk about how the shape of ice cream popsicles are secretly brainwashing children to worship an all-powerful phallic symbol and thus drag our society down into a dark age of brutal male supremacy. Jesus titty-fucking Christ.

You are a person, not a gender. I hope one day you stop burning bras long enough to realize this.

Egads you are on to something!

Not popsicles but it's the double ice cream cone which is a tool of the patriarchy, let us lobby to have it banned at once!

All hail the delicious patriatchy, now with sprinkles!

 

[LilithSlave]

Well if it isn't the Escapist's own Valerie Solanas. Hi. Thanks for stopping in for the 50th time to remind us we're sexist. Can't wait for your next thread. Maybe you can talk about how the shape of ice cream popsicles are secretly brainwashing children to worship an all-powerful phallic symbol and thus drag our society down into a dark age of brutal male supremacy. Jesus titty-fucking Christ.

You are a person, not a gender. I hope one day you stop burning bras long enough to realize this.

Valerie Solanas was a very foolish person, in my opinion. And Andy Warhol is a person I greatly respect. He died far, far too young. I don't want to "remind people they are sexist", but that society has gender problems.

I don't appreciate such untrue, outrageous caricatures of myself being portrayed as fact.

 

[hooksashands]

Sorry for the ridicule, Lilith.

Speaking seriously, I'm glad you brought up the whole "virgin/slut" problem, but...

Honestly? I've seen it work both ways. I wasn't intimate until I was 21, and all my friends got laid way earlier (or claimed to at least), but I never got any shit about being a virgin except from people who's opinion I could care less about. It's the same thing with girls. The only people who are gonna call you a slut are the ones who know nothing about you, similar to how I (jokingly) call you Valerie Solanas (again, I apologize) because you carry around an aggressive feminist mindset.

I'm not an "anti-feminist, I'm just tired of everything being turned into a gender issue on these forums. We're all nerds and we've been fighting stereotypes our whole lives. What really gets me rabid is when someone claims that one set of genitals has it worse than the other set of genitals.

 

[MomoElektra]

Another thought for you - how did so many cultures start agreeing that men like sex more than women if it wasn't true? I've never seen the reverse in my history classes.

You mean those cultures that reward men (well, the ones that "mattered" anyway, meaning mostly rich, influential straight (and depending on country white) guys) for wanting or having sex and punish women for wanting or having sex (there's even examples where women get shamed for being raped, even today)?

Those cultures where for several centuries if not millennia men controlled women's fertility through social pressure and, well, actual control?

But men do have larger sex drive, there are studies that proves it.

Because women (still, and more than men) get discouraged from following through with theirs.

Not because they actually have a smaller sex drive biologically.

What really gets me rabid is when someone claims that one set of genitals has it worse than the other set of genitals.

I get that, I really do. But what about the group with one set of genitals that DOES get treated badly, if only in certain circumstances, because of their genitals?

Do they not exist? Does it not matter? Having it worse than others is a question of measure, if you will.
People getting treated badly or worse than others because of gender, sex, race, sexuality, sexual identity, religion (or lack of), color and what not is fact.

 

[Phasmal]

What I expected: Virgin and slut shaming is bad.

What I got: GENDER WAR. FUCK FEMINISTS/ANTIFEMINISTS.

Normally I would jump in, but I really don't want to. Congratulations escapists, you broke my spirit. I wonder if the gaming community will always have a problem with feminism, or if one day it might mature a little. I for one will not be holding my breath.

As for OT: Both are bad. It sucks men are pressured into losing virginity early and women are pressured to be a gatekeeper of sex forever having to say no. Trying to have an intelligent discussion about gender roles/societal pressures on here is like trying to do a rubix cube with your face.

 

[Doog0AD]

People still bring up Freudian psychology in 2012?

Look, guys, I don't mind bringing psychology up in an argument, but could you at least use a source that isn't 80+ years old? Freud's psychological theories are largely anachronistic today, especially when it comes to sex.

All psychology isn't Freudian.

 

[Snowbell]

I completely agree, I hate society's attitude to the amounts of sex had by males/females. For one thing, I would much, MUCH prefer to date a male virgin than to date a male slut, although as a woman I have no desire to reverse the stereotype and become a slut myself. (I'll be using 'slut' as a gender nuetral term here)

Recently, I accused one of my male friends of being a slut (well, he was being one...) and he completely blew up at me rather than laughing it off or admitting that that's the case, saying that I was the slut for 'leading him on' (which I would like to point out now, I did not). So in other words, this man and likely many others think they only indulge in slut-like activity because women, the 'true-sluts' allow them and encourage them to.

God I hate society.

 

[Kevlar Eater]

I dont think anyone is "unpure" or "corrupted" if they have had sex

Bah, and I was all set on charging in yelling "Corrupt me, defile me, make me unpure, PLEASE!"

*Inquisitor Kevlar shoots Loop Stricken in the head*

IK: We need not more heretics. Oh, and easiest heretical kill ever.

*topic* Apparently, everyone here forgot that women also chime in on virgin (male) shaming just as often as men but in a far more vicious and condescending manner. I've once heard a woman say to her boy friend (don't forget the space between 'boy' and 'friend') "why not tattoo lips to your hand, since it's the only pussy you'll ever get". And another, but aimed at me in high school, by a girl: "The only way you'll be getting any action is if you strapped meat to your legs so that dogs would have a reason to hump you, or if you were thrown in prison". And everyone that heard that shit laugh.

Gods, that flashback made me remember how much I hate women.

 

[Queen Michael]

I dont want to pressure every woman nto being a fucking nun until she meets me at which point she should drop her pants faster than a guy who had taco bell for lunch, but I think a little self control (and respect) isnt always amiss.

See, I'd say that this is slut shaming. You're assuming that a girl who has lots of sex with many different men lacks self-control and self-respect. Couldn't it be that she is in control but chooses to have lots of sex? And not because she has any self-respect5 issues, but simply because she likes it?