Wait, so video games aren't art?

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Deadpool062

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Just today in middle school English, we got a writing prompt about means of communication (art, music, literature) affecting peoples lives. After my teacher started to take questions I asked if video games were a form of art, and what do I get? She almost burst out laughing then said "Of course video games aren't art, thats solely a worthless technology!" I later asked if movies were considered art and she said they were. Now how aren't they art, compared to movies of course. They both have actors, plot twists, romances in some of them. That seems pretty art like to me. Is my English teacher as insane as I think she is?
 

Shazbah

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Apr 14, 2009
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Well I'd say she thinks she's right because of her lack of experience with the medium. Just like you can dismiss any film or book if you've never watched or read one. If it really bothers find a few good episodes of Extra Credits here on the escapist and show her, theyre brillant and really know how to argue for games
 

TuringTest

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She has beliefs that most of society do - the sad thing is, by most people, video games aren't respected as an art. Ever notice all video-game movies are cheap cash-ins and action flicks? Yeah. There's a reason for that.

Because movies are genuinely considered a respected medium, while video-games aren't - so the conversion there is a bit rough, because along with converting interactivity to a sole, linear path, there's a certain disrespect there - a certain way of going 'meh, I'm playing this, it's fun, but it's not art.' And to get the level of respect other mediums do, we have to start treating videogames like an art form by making more games about things that aren't tits and chainsaws. It's got amazing, untapped expressive potential - and we need to stop treating it like movies or books in order to get there.
 

Deadpool062

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Shazbah said:
Well I'd say she thinks she's right because of her lack of experience with the medium. Just like you can dismiss any film or book if you've never watched or read one. If it really bothers find a few good episodes of Extra Credits here on the escapist and show her, theyre brillant and really know how to argue for games
Thats what I thought of when I heard her talking actually.
 

Trolldor

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Keenanr1234 said:
Just today in middle school English, we got a writing prompt about means of communication (art, music, literature) affecting peoples lives. After my teacher started to take questions I asked if video games were a form of art, and what do I get? She almost burst out laughing then said "Of course video games aren't art, thats solely a worthless technology!" I later asked if movies were considered art and she said they were. Now how aren't they art, compared to movies of course. They both have actors, plot twists, romances in some of them. That seems pretty art like to me. Is my English teacher as insane as I think she is?
She isn't an English teacher if she can't comprehend different mediums of story telling.
 
Jul 13, 2010
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That there is called bigotry, aka, your teacher is a bigot. That fact that we're in the middle of the post-modern movement makes her statement all the more ridiculous, because, according to the movement, everything is art. Ask her to define art for you the next time you see her, and ask her why certain things don't count as being art.

However, if you want something more substantial then "everything is art" then I'd say video-games, more then any other medium, have the ability to effectively use subtext, and expose an audience to themes, views and events that they would never otherwise be exposed to. Yes, no game has ever even come close to using gaming's full potential, but when you look at examples like Bioshock, Machinarium, Psychonauts, etc, you can see that there is already strong artistic base in videogames.
 

ethaninja

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Tell her she needs to get her head out of the books. Drawing is included in games. As in acting. Etc
 

Xanadu84

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Best article Ive read on the subject

http://clicknothing.typepad.com/click_nothing/2007/08/on-authorship-i.html

If it doesn't convince her, it will completely go over her head, confusing her and makjing her look like a fool.

For another summery, go here and skip to the post, "What Is Art?"

http://gamedesignconcepts.wordpress.com/2009/07/

If you can bring actual games into it, check out the example games in that last link, particularly The Marriage and Passage. If you can branch out a bit into games you have to pay for, check out The Path and The Void.

Expand your argument by going into analog games. One that comes to mind is a theater show I read about that involved audience participation. The actors acted out their parts, and the audience was allowed to interact with the actors in the plays context. This could change the outcome. This is definitely theater art, but more importantly, it is also most certainly a game.

Remember that the term, "Art" is a pretty nebulous concept. Ask her to define it, and she will likely be stumped, put forth definitions that arn't terribly useful, or try to alter her definition to fit her hypothesis that games are not art. For that matter, have a definition for, "Game". This is even more confusing then "Art". The best one Ive found is "A series of meaningful choices". Have your own definition, like from that second link, and explain how Games fit. One point you will have to concede is that most modern day games don't fit the lofty ideal of what I call, "High Art", because they are simple power fantasies. At this point, you can point out the number of action movies that are far more noticeable then your "art films", and even how most Norse mythology is basically a murderous psychopaths wet dream. Games are still a young medium, particularly video games. There is no way that we could have gone from cave paintings to the Mona Lisa in 25 years.
 

ssgt splatter

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Art/beauty is in the eye of the beholder. She may not think it's art but others will defend it to their graves that it is art.

Some games can be considered art while others are just for pure stupid fun, case in point bulletstorm...I'm going off the demo for the game right now but from what I've seen in the demo, it's just meant as a guilty pleasure; after all, it would be very hard to convince anyone that shooting someone in the nuts and then kicking him in the face for points is art.
 

TuringTest

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hem dazon 90 said:
No they aren't stop trying to make them art
...

Wow. Really? Games aren't art. Despite the moving philosophical and emotional arguments that have been consisting in games for decades, they aren't and are completely incapable of ever being art.

...*Sigh*
 

Cheesepower5

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There are good arguments as to why they might not be, but I can guarantee your teacher doesn't have them.
 

Thaluikhain

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Trolldor said:
She isn't an English teacher if she can't comprehend different mediums of story telling.
You mean she's not an English teacher if she CAN comprehend different mediums of story telling. Well, ok, in my country at least, English as a subject is a bad joke.
 

Marowit

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You argued your point well it sounds like.

She probably doesn't think that they can be an art form, because of the mindless commercials or the preconceived notions gory-FPS'ers can give. Ask her what makes something an art form, and others not. Then ask how games like Heavy Rain, or Red Dead Redemption, or any other game that gives you difficult decisions to deal with, where the emphasis is on the experience (just as books, movies, ballet, theater, etc...) don't fit that mold.

It just sounds like she's narrow minded. I know a few people around my age, 26, that feel the same way and it always blows my mind. I'll bring up how various other 'art forms' were perceived when they were first starting up, movies, radio, rock & roll, modernism, etc... and they stumble of themselves and generally scoff and try to ask about how killing someone in GTA is art...

Then I ask if they remember how shocking it was that Elvis rocked his hips back and forth? Times they are a changin'.