Wait, This Need To Be Taught?

[Vault101]

And you believe that "educating" these people would have changed anything about their warped mindset?

they are real people though...and somehow they end up there why? and was it preventable? who knows

some say its like a downward spiral from r/foreveralone to r/mra to r/theredpill

This is pretty much the entire foundation of those signs. Instead of putting the blame on the rapists and saying "how can we get them to stop doing this", far too many people put the focus on what the woman was wearing or whether she "led him on" or if she was drunk or how many sexual partners she's had or any number of things.
.

I think its because we "other" the perpetrators of rape....they aren't people theyre like tornados or earthquakes...forces of nature that you can't do anything about, because a "person" couldn't commit rape...not someone we know, not even [I/]me[/I]

 

[Smooth Operator]

"OMG why can't everyone collect all knowledge out of the aether like I mistaking imagine happened for me?"
Newsflash buddy, everyone needs to get information somewhere and you aren't nearly as knowledgeable as you imagine yourself to be, as clearly displayed by your ignorance about obtaining knowledge.

And you might learn a whole bunch of things reading over the legal rules of consent, shit you came up in your head isn't the same as the shit written down in legal documents. Hell as far as sex goes, unless you both signed a formal contract that then got notarised by a government official you are always operating within a grey area where any party can claim they were raped.

 

[Karadalis]

some say its like a downward spiral from r/foreveralone to r/mra to r/theredpill
[/quote]

And some say the earth was created in 7 days.

People can claim and awfull lot of things these days.

I mean whats next? "They didnt thought me at school that murder was wrong?"

Rape is illegal, thats all the reason to need to know that it is wrong. End of story. You commited a crime? No amount of "bad childhood" drama stories is going to get you out of it. You made a choice to hurt someone, and hurt them badly. And now you claim that you didnt know any better?

Well a good thing that "didnt know" does not protect you from punishment then or the drug dealer down the street could claim that no one tought him at school that drugs are bad for peoples health...

"OMG why can't everyone collect all knowledge out of the aether like I mistaking imagine happened for me?"
Newsflash buddy, everyone needs to get information somewhere and you aren't nearly as knowledgeable as you imagine yourself to be, as clearly displayed by your ignorance about obtaining knowledge.

And you might learn a whole bunch of things reading over the legal rules of consent, shit you came up in your head isn't the same as the shit written down in legal documents. Hell as far as sex goes, unless you both signed a formal contract that then got notarised by a government official you are always operating within a grey area where any party can claim they were raped.

Newsflash "kiddo":

That rape is illegal and unnaceptable isnt some exotic rare knowledge only the priviliged that studied at Oxford university know about.

There is something called "common sense" and part of this common sense is that rape is illegal. Rapists know that, and they still rape people... wanna know why? CAUSE THEY DONT CARE, not because they dont know that what they are doing is wrong. Do you think Josef fritzl kept his daughter locked up in his hidden cellar for half her live and constantly raped her because he simply didnt knew what he was doing was wrong?

Boy am i glad that youre not a judge

People could simply force others to sign contracts each time they raped someone and you would let them get away cause HEY! They signed that they consented right?

How about you listen to your own advice and go back and read up on what exactly constitutes consent.

And even if the rapist claims that "he didnt know about the rule of consent" (wich is a ridiculus claim so out there that it can only come from the US of A) it doesnt absolve or somehow lessen his crime. Not knowing not to shoot someone doesnt somehow absolve you from punishment either.

So this whole "teach them" argument is a load of baloney because it is allready done. What kind of society doesnt teach their kids that crimes are wrong btw? I know for a fact that here in europe the moment a rapist claims that "no one tought him not to rape" would be laughed at and found guilty in a heartbeat.

 

[Angelblaze]

I'm a little annoyed that BuzzFeed article/thing uses the same tweet for point two and point eight. Does that make it only 16 reminders that sex education is important? I think you're overreacting a bit chiggerwood because BuzzFeed is for stupid people. They're the audience they have, this is the message they need to hear.

I'd disagree. A quick trip to places such as /r/TheRedPill (and /r/RedPillWomen) clearly shows that there are people who believe that they are entitled to sex. Along with beliefs in statements such as 'If they dont want to have sex, they are cheating.' with people on both subreddits admitting to spousal rape which is, to my knowledge, one of the most common forms of rape if not the most common.

And you believe that "educating" these people would have changed anything about their warped mindset?

Thats very optimistic to say the least.

Even if you really want to believe in the current rusting educational system where money basically means higher education, im pretty damn sure that even those crazies should understand what rape is and what consent is simply by the fact that rape is illegal. I mean if they know what rape is they should know what consent is.

This doesnt even necesarly have to be about rape per say anyways... it could be stealing as well. After all what is stealing then taking someone elses property without his or her consent?

Consent is a principle thats not only used when it comes to sexual relationships. So theres no excuse for anyone not to know "what it is" by claiming "they werent thought about it in school"

I wasnt tought in school that im not suposed to kill people with guns... but im pretty sure if i went on a killing spree the defence "well they didnt tought me" wouldnt quite hold up in court now would it?

The issue isn't so much rape so much as it is the social pressuring that pushes people to prove their dominance via controlling someone's sexual actions (against the absolute will of that person. Rape play/bondage culture is perfectly fine).

Learning sexual education - not so much consent so much as having sexual confidence in yourself, enough so that you know that your sexuality does not define the totality of your worth to society - would greatly assist. Being comfortable enough to talk about it in school, teaching that abstinence is against the nature of just about every living creature (if you're going to say 'sex is bad, don't have it', in my opinion you might as well not teach biology.) and that the goal should be less about 'not having sex' so much as 'not having a child before you're ready'.
[Example, English classes in Eastern countries is actually more 'getting used to foreigners' then learning English. Sexual education should be more getting comfortable with sexuality and sex itself.]

Slight rant here, why do people think that taking sexual education out of schools is going to make sex stop happening? I mean, if I got rid of every math teacher on the planet, we'd still need to use numbers...

In addition, teaching both genders more about sexual organs would help. God knows too many men think that if a woman can't orgasm from vaginal sex, there's something 'wrong' with her - and no, that's not some guy being a douche. I've met people, good people, who honestly believed that.

tl;dr It isn't ABOUT teaching them that rape is wrong, its about teaching them to be sexually comfortable with themselves without need of confirmation from friends/society. Talking about it casually in schools and not making sex the overcomplicated thing it currently is in the western world, would do us a hellva lot more good then harm.

 

[barbzilla]

A good rule of thumb is not stick anything into any other thing without prior thumbs up.

What if the slot I am sticking things into is implied to be okay? For example a soda machine.

OT: People are morons in general, just because you have enough common sense to buy a soda (cents, sorry for the bad pun) doesn't mean the rest of world suffers from the same affliction. In general people only think about their immediate wants and desires and don't care about how it can affect others. It isn't right, but it is a major issue with our culture today.

 

[Aurion]

Right, so, when people go out drinking and get completely shit-faced, they should accept the responsibility of me strapping them into a trolley and pushing them down a really big hill into a pit full of grizzly bears.

Hey, I'm not in the wrong here. They chose to drink, so really, it's their fault their in the bear pit.

Or, here's a thing - maybe, *just* maybe, we should teach people not to take advantage of drunks? Crazy thought, I know, but just putting it out there.

You have to accept responsibility for pushing your friend(?) down a hill. Into a pit of grizzly bears. On a trolley.

Good luck defending that, incidentally.

Was your friend(?) dumb for putting himself in a position you could do that to him? Sure. But that won't save you- there's this thing called agency. If you get drunk and start a fight, you're exercising agency. If you get drunk and someone tosses you off a building, you aren't. That's the action of another person. Not that complicated!

Try not to do the whole ad absurdum thing, please?

I'll give you a Far Right example, Ayn Rand.

Ayn Rand is a terrible example for anything other than...

...

Well.

Ayn Rand. She was a shining light of crazy even by the standards of 20th century political thought.

 

[Godhead]

A good rule of thumb is not stick anything into any other thing without prior thumbs up.

What if the slot I am sticking things into is implied to be okay? For example a soda machine.

OT: People are morons in general, just because you have enough common sense to buy a soda (cents, sorry for the bad pun) doesn't mean the rest of world suffers from the same affliction. In general people only think about their immediate wants and desires and don't care about how it can affect others. It isn't right, but it is a major issue with our culture today.

Vending machines are made to have coins/bills stuck in them, I'd say that they come with a manufacturer's thumbs up.

 

[vid87]

What frightens me is that in many cases we seemingly do have to be as specific as possible because people can't be trusted to read between the lines and act like decent humans because they ignore details to justify themselves.

Case in point: the CeeLoGreen scandal where he tweeted that "It is only rape if the victim is conscious," implying that the person has to explicitly state that they don't want sex in order for the person to back off, rather than the (in most cases) man stopping and thinking how it would feel for a person to wake up from a coma to realize someone had their way with them when they were vulnerable.

http://www.edmontonsun.com/2014/09/02/cee-lo-green-it-is-only-rape-if-the-victim-is-conscious

There was also that comment about "legitimate rape" which I honestly think was a poorly worded attempt to denote physical abuse rather than emotional, but, while the surface difference is obvious, splitting the two seems to imply one is somehow more justifiable than the other. The main focus should be "Stop being an asshole to people."

 

[chiggerwood]

Every once in a while I'll go to buzzfeed, because I have a few issues with anger (nothing major) and I'm trying to build an immunity to bullshit and to overcome the urge to yell profanities when I hear something mind numbingly stupid.

Mate this is really cool, you are a true stoic. Everyone thinks stoics just put up with stuff but they actually actively courted things they don't like to inure themselves to it. Virgil moved in above some baths because he hated the noise for example.

OT: Didn't really read it but if it's on buzzfeed it's probably wrong.

Wow you were able to see that I practice stoicism just from that? Well I try to practice Stoicism, but sometimes things still irk me, but hey! Rome wasn't built in a day. Besides this thread was very illuminating and helped me to put things into their proper prospective. Thank God for the escapist, the sanest site I know.