Warhammer 40k vs starwars... is there any possible way for SW to win?

[Zeke the Freak]

SW has one lowly deathstar while the Imeprium of man have hundreds of ships like this destroying planets on a daily basis. The power sword is the equivilant of a lightsaber. SW lazors shoot at sub-sonic speeds while IG las-rifles shoot at light speed. The empire has nothing on the Imperial Navy of 40k. 40k has more guns, better guns, bigger guns, and cooler guns. a class B psyker is said to snap a titan in 2 with a flick of his wrist and send entire armies at eachothers throats in a fit of bloodlust with a mumble from his lips. 40k has titans. 40k has more psykers then jedi that are stronger then jedi. LOLOL TYRANIDS LOLOL. LOLOL ORKS LOLOL. Space marine armor can resist lasors. Space marines have never been defeated by a bunch of glorified care-bears *cough cough EWOKS cough cough*.

Your avatar matches your literary tone: fuming and inarticulate.

Who cares? The two aren't really compatible, so why bust nerd chops?

That said, let's make peace based on this wise poster's counsel.

Uhhh, the LOLOL part was a joke because of the obviouse benifets going for the Orks and Tyranids. You'll Excuse me for some of my more brash posts as I don't quite think about what I'm saying half the time. And my spelling just sucks. No excuse, it just sucks. Now with that out of the way, lets get back to the discussion, shall we.

 

[Chibz]

Imperium would be quite a match for the empire...
unless of course they used the death star to destroy Terra.

no earth= no fanaticism inducing godhead, no orders/ direction for imperial guard, no hope...

If this were to happen, the god emperor of earth would be allowed death. And, as such, he would either come back to life in some form. And in which case the Imperium of Man no longer has a CRIPPLED god-emperor but a freaking LIVING one. Bye bye star wars.

Worst case scenario, he becomes a new chaos god. And both sides die.

And this is, of course, assuming that the relatively wussy death star can even APPROACH the most dearly guarded planet.

Hell, my boy/girl slaanesh could take out the entire star wars universe.

 

[Lukeydoodly]

W40K duh!

They have everyone SW has, but bigger and meaner.

Titans > AT-AT's.

 

[ThreeWords]

Spoiler: Forgive me if someone already said this

But I only just realised...

Everyone on the SW keeps saying how the force would surly beat all of 40K's technology, but there is one fatal flaw with the force...

I remember being told once that psykers are always in danger, because they are constantly being tempted and tested by the Forces of Chaos

Imagine if the Chaos Gods got let out on the Jedi, or the Sith.

The only reason that the entire Imperium's pykers don't immediately all defect to Chaos is because they are chosen to be tough, and they get tons of training to resist it. The Jedi leave their minds open, to be connected to the universe, leaving them open to Chaos as well, while on the other hand, how many Sith do you think will resist the offers of dark power?

SW's force-users = only so many Chaos mind-slaves

 

[Sanguinius- The Angel]

I go with Star Wars, mainly because the Imperium being a bunch of thinly veiled space Nazis makes me kinda sick.

ohhh the ironey.

i hope you were being ironic anyhow. you DO relize that the Empire in Star Wars is almost and exact copy of Nazi Germany dont you? from the Emperor/Hitler hatred of all 'non humans' all the way down to 'storm troopers' sharing the EXACT same name with nazi's.

Big difference: In Star Wars, they're not the good guys.

Since when were there "good guys" anywhere in WH40k?
I thought it was very "my side"/"your side"...

Yeah, the Imperium isn't the game's primary protagonist. They aren't front and center in all the marketing, after all. All Hail the Emperor, and his throne that requires a Holocost of shaved, tattooed psychics to be sacrificed to run.

Err.. No, not quite. It's not anywhere near Nazi-ism.. Haven't any of you read the history of the Imperium? It's actually based a lot on Christianity/Catholicism. The Emperor isn't responding, but is still alive? Hell, if you see and pictures of the Emperor.. He's friggin' Jesus!

And Yes, Darth Vader was meant to look like a Nazi. Mmm. Propaganda.

 

[Sensenmann]

All Dawn of War does is fight over planets in an eternal depressive struggle. Star Wars would use the Deathstar/stormtroopers or the hippy/jedi movement ^^.

 

[ThreeWords]

All Dawn of War does is fight over planets in an eternal depressive struggle. Star Wars would use the Deathstar/stormtroopers or the hippy/jedi movement ^^.

However, the "endless struggle" does make them somewhat practised at the whole 'war' thing...

Objections to the Death Star, Stormtroopers and Jedi have already been lodged, so I won't bother echoing them

 

[BOGULIS]

First of all i would like to congratulate the op for the thread idea and everyone one of you as well for the great answers.I enjoyed reading all the posts very muchNow what i would like to add is why i think 40k would win. I wont even bother to compare gods armies and heroes because is seems unfair.What i think would win it for the 40k universe is the mentality.i mean anyone in 40k would gladly sacrifice his mother to win the war (apart from some sm chapters)so clearly we have good citizens and noble heroes on SW and zealous maniacs on 40k.The Imperium would just send some very important leaders to meet at the galactic parliament of SW with their leaders to negotiate peace then they would probably blow up the planet during the meeting regardless of outcome.
Thats what i think it would happen.
thank you for reading.

 

[ThreeWords]

First of all i would like to congratulate the op for the thread idea and everyone one of you as well for the great answers.I enjoyed reading all the posts very muchNow what i would like to add is why i think 40k would win. I wont even bother to compare gods armies and heroes because is seems unfair.What i think would win it for the 40k universe is the mentality.i mean anyone in 40k would gladly sacrifice his mother to win the war (apart from some sm chapters)so clearly we have good citizens and noble heroes on SW and zealous maniacs on 40k.The Imperium would just send some very important leaders to meet at the galactic parliament of SW with their leaders to negotiate peace then they would probably blow up the planet during the meeting regardless of outcome.
Thats what i think it would happen.
thank you for reading.

He has a point...

The guys in 40K, even the Empire, have a kind of honour, be it sometimes a little twisted.
On the other hand, the Impirium would likely do Bogulis says and 'cheat' =P

 

[Wyatt]

Spoiler: Forgive me if someone already said this

But I only just realised...

Everyone on the SW keeps saying how the force would surly beat all of 40K's technology, but there is one fatal flaw with he force...

I remember being told once that psykers are always in danger, because they are constantly being tempted and tested by the Forces of Chaos

Imagine if the Chaos Gods got let out on the Jedi, or the Sith.

The only reason that the entire Imperium's pykers don't immediately all defect to Chaos is because they are chosen to be tough, and they get tons of training to resist it. The Jedi leave their minds open, to be connected to the universe, leaving them open to Chaos as well, while on the other hand, how many Sith do you think will resist the offers of dark power?

SW's force-users = only so many Chaos mind-slaves

nice point except for one fatal flaw in your logic. the 'force' isnt 'chaos'. that is to say that the 'magic' in 40K comes from the power of the warp, the 'magic' in SW comes from 'the force' they arent the same thing at all. and simply because a psyker is in danger of being possessed by demons doesnt mean that a Jedi or sith would be. the source of the 'magic' are clearly two different things.

example. ships in the 40K universe travel THROUGH the warp as a part of their FTL abilitys. in the SW universe they dont, they dont travel THROUGH 'the force' they use 'hyperspace' and dont ever get attacked by demons on the way. the warp is a whole nother seperate universe that is connected to the 'real' one by actual psyical openings. the force isnt seperate from our universe it IS our universe. there is no hidden demon enclaves or rebel armys living inside the force that spring out on the rest of the universe from time to time. the warp is a PLACE as much as a thing. the force isnt.

no sir, aside from the fact that they both provide the source of 'magic' for each realm, the force and the warp have nothing else in common, and to make an argument that the adepts of one magic source would be destroyed by usage of the the others source shows a lack of having reasoned it through all the way.

if you say that jedi/sith would be taken over by demons , id simply couner with the argument that all psykers would fall too the dark side and end up killing each other off in a private war to become king shit of turd hill.

if you would counter that demons ARE 'the dark side' id then ask you who in the 40K universe represents the 'light side' of the force? the Emperor? either way you slice it it would break down the same way. if the demons are the dark side than the emperor must be the light side and the Jedi would become psykers able to resist demons and the Sith would become psykers under demon control. the ballace of good and evil wouldnt change just because the source of magic or the names for them did in my opinion.

 

[Pyro Paul]

nice point except for one fatal flaw in your logic. the 'force' isnt 'chaos'. that is to say that the 'magic' in 40K comes from the power of the warp, the 'magic' in SW comes from 'the force' they arent the same thing at all. and simply because a psyker is in danger of being possessed by demons doesnt mean that a Jedi or sith would be. the source of the 'magic' are clearly two different things.

....

no sir, aside from the fact that they both provide the source of 'magic' for each realm, the force and the warp have nothing else in common, and to make an argument that the adepts of one magic source would be destroyed by usage of the the others source shows a lack of having reasoned it through all the way.

if you say that jedi/sith would be taken over by demons , id simply couner with the argument that all psykers would fall too the dark side and end up killing each other off in a private war to become king shit of turd hill...

here is the flaw with your argument.

despite in your opening saying that the warp and force are not the same thing, you ultimatly try and compare them as interchangeable objects. It just doesn't work that way.

the Warp is an active entity having influence in the physical realm. as it actively tries to corrupt people whom has strong ties to it, and creates physical manifestations in the form of daemons. no such thing mimics this in the SW universe.

the force is a passive power which only sensitive individuals can tap into and use to their advantage. it works much like the ork 'Waagh' which is a metaphysical field that can interact with the physical realm with out actively being tied to the warp. ontop of this, the force has two sides, one emboding selflessness and one that embodies selfishness. (named light and dark sides) and despite being passive, usage of one side or the other can have mental and physical side effects.



Now, take a bunch of open minded individuals sensitively attuned to pick up a unique passive energy field and throw it into the warhammer universe where a powerful sentient metaphysical entity is agressively attacking their sensitive minds and bending them to its own corrupt will...



but going off of your argument.

first off, the 'dark side' of the force is not a physical entity trying to corrupt people, rather it is a passive series of choices made out of selfisness which physically and mentally alters the individual ending up in a perpetual cycle of seaking more power. and with most Psykers having a stedfast iron will to the immortal god emperor and endless propaganda; 'It is Better to die for the emperor than live for your self'; selfish choices which would lead to the dark side simply wouldn't happen

ontop of this, any psyker whom did show signs of the 'dark side' would quickly be put down like a dirty dog. as those that show even the smallest sign of taint are clensed.




to your continued argument of 'what is the light side of the warp'
there is no 'light side' of the warp. next to nothing is arbitrarly defined as 'good' or 'evil', which is what makes the WH40k universe so visseral and gritty. as the Librarian often murmurs... 'There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.'

 

[John Funk]

See, WH40k is just too over the top. It makes it hard for me to actually enjoy it, to be honest.

 

[Wyatt]

here is the flaw with your argument.

despite in your opening saying that the warp and force are not the same thing, you ultimatly try and compare them as interchangeable objects. It just doesn't work that way.

the Warp is an active entity having influence in the physical realm. as it actively tries to corrupt people whom has strong ties to it, and creates physical manifestations in the form of daemons. no such thing mimics this in the SW universe.

the force is a passive power which only sensitive individuals can tap into and use to their advantage. it works much like the ork 'Waagh' which is a metaphysical field that can interact with the physical realm with out actively being tied to the warp. ontop of this, the force has two sides, one emboding selflessness and one that embodies selfishness. (named light and dark sides) and despite being passive, usage of one side or the other can have mental and physical side effects.



Now, take a bunch of open minded individuals sensitively attuned to pick up a unique passive energy field and throw it into the warhammer universe where a powerful sentient metaphysical entity is agressively attacking their sensitive minds and bending them to its own corrupt will...



but going off of your argument.

first off, the 'dark side' of the force is not a physical entity trying to corrupt people, rather it is a passive series of choices made out of selfisness which physically and mentally alters the individual ending up in a perpetual cycle of seaking more power. and with most Psykers having a stedfast iron will to the immortal god emperor and endless propaganda; 'It is Better to die for the emperor than live for your self'; selfish choices which would lead to the dark side simply wouldn't happen

ontop of this, any psyker whom did show signs of the 'dark side' would quickly be put down like a dirty dog. as those that show even the smallest sign of taint are clensed.




to your continued argument of 'what is the light side of the warp'
there is no 'light side' of the warp. next to nothing is arbitrarly defined as 'good' or 'evil', which is what makes the WH40k universe so visseral and gritty. as the Librarian often murmurs... 'There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.'

outstanding. im glad that you got my point about the force and the warp not being the same thing.

my post was kinda a tough one to make. it was clear the person i was quoting my reply too wasnt putting any thought into what he was saying on the topic. a jedi or sith WOULDNT be taken over by demons becuse the force and the warp arent the same source of magic.

the rest of my post was ment as more or less a one sided argument against those that would make small comparisons of the two and try to spin that into something arguable though lacking in basic 'realism' (if anything about this whole debate can be said to be 'realistic').

my ultimate point is that the force, and the warp are two different things, and while they do share some common ground in that they are both sources for each realms 'magic' that is where the ability to comapre them really ends. Jedi/sith wouldnt be taken over by demons because their source of magic isnt connected to demons in any way. the same way that psykers wouldnt fall too the dark side becuse their source of magic doesnt have a dark or light side.

i will add as an aside that your statment that the nature of the light and dark sides of the force being created from within rather than imposed from the force itself is more or less wrong. no less and authority on the force than Yoda himself said "Yes, run! Yes, a Jedi's strength flows from the Force. But beware of the dark side. Anger, fear, aggression; the dark side of the Force are they. Easily they flow, quick to join you in a fight. If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will, as it did Obi-Wan's apprentice."

i take from that the idea that there are two sides too the force and each side has its own agenda. the choice if WICH side to use is ours but the dark and light sides are separate from us and exist as good and evil appart from an individuals choices. and as yoda said once you make the choice of wich side to serve it takes over and dominates your destiny.

it seems clear that 'the force' is just a sci-fie way to say God and Satan. we choose wich side we play for but those sides exist separate and individual reguardless of a persons choice.

anyhow your reply was great. we actualy agree on what my main point was, its just that i got windy in my reply and my post ended up as kind a confusing mess.

 

[Micvic709]

I hate to be the one who says "it depends" but that is the case. There are too many factors to think of in a REALISTIC fight. I mean if its in the first part of the SW series then there are like 100 Jedi. If its in the after part there are a couple jedi, rancors, death stars, and like 100+ star destroyers. Towards the middle of the series there is a seemingly unlimited supply of clone troopers, and if all sides get together, a bunch of droids too. I'm not an expert on 40K, but i have seen a lot of them and looked into them and played dawn of war. 40K just doesn't seem to have anything that is blisteringly AWESOME. They have cool units and weapons, but its nothing SW doesn't have as well. Space marines = storm troopers. Tau = droids. Defiler, land raider, and whatever else kind of tanks = hailfire and ATAT, ATST, more tanks etc. 40K has heroes but they're more like stronger regular units. The orc squiggoth and tau giant dinorsaur thingy = rankor. and that pretty much sums up the 40K troops, where as SW still has death star, star destroyers, and jedi.

 

[Wyatt]

the force is a passive power which only sensitive individuals can tap into and use to their advantage. it works much like the ork 'Waagh' which is a metaphysical field that can interact with the physical realm with out actively being tied to the warp. ontop of this, the force has two sides, one emboding selflessness and one that embodies selfishness. (named light and dark sides) and despite being passive, usage of one side or the other can have mental and physical side effects.



Now, take a bunch of open minded individuals sensitively attuned to pick up a unique passive energy field and throw it into the warhammer universe where a powerful sentient metaphysical entity is agressively attacking their sensitive minds and bending them to its own corrupt will...

this i felt needs its own reply.

if the force works much like an ork waaagh than this makes my/our point for us. ork's arent taken over by demons when they use the power of the waaagh are they?

the sources of magic are different and the results of using those souces are just as different.

as to the people being attuned to pick up a passive energy field being open to attack is like saying a TV can be taken over by a cell phone signal.

 

[Calax]

Just gonna say two things, One: SunCrusher. Yes it's Extended universe, but it's armored to the point where it's invincible, and it destabilizes stars with it's primary weapons.

Two: High Powered sith can wipe out planets and systems pretty easily. Nihilus literally ATE planets, while Exar Kun's apprentices reached into a start and yanked out it's core to kill their persuers (setting off a chain reaction that made a cluster of stars go Nova).


Overall I'd give it to 40k because they are just to over the top, but I think individuals within Star Wars are stronger than individuals within 40k.

 

[Liverandbacon]

I hate to be the one who says "it depends" but that is the case. There are too many factors to think of in a REALISTIC fight. I mean if its in the first part of the SW series then there are like 100 Jedi. If its in the after part there are a couple jedi, rancors, death stars, and like 100+ star destroyers. Towards the middle of the series there is a seemingly unlimited supply of clone troopers, and if all sides get together, a bunch of droids too. I'm not an expert on 40K, but i have seen a lot of them and looked into them and played dawn of war. 40K just doesn't seem to have anything that is blisteringly AWESOME. They have cool units and weapons, but its nothing SW doesn't have as well. Space marines = storm troopers. Tau = droids. Defiler, land raider, and whatever else kind of tanks = hailfire and ATAT, ATST, more tanks etc. 40K has heroes but they're more like stronger regular units. The orc squiggoth and tau giant dinorsaur thingy = rankor. and that pretty much sums up the 40K troops, where as SW still has death star, star destroyers, and jedi.

Dawn of War doesn't portray the factions accurately power-wise, for reasons of game balance. Space marines most definitely do not = storm troopers. Whereas a stormtrooper is a human in weak armor, an imperial space marine is a 8 foot tall genetically engineered superhuman that wields a rapid fire rocket launcher as his sidearm. Also, Star Wars shields (at least for troops) defend great against lasers, but not so great against slugthrowers. Even the most heavily shielded Star Wars soldier would get his ass handed to him by any Imperial Guard soldier armed with a non-las weapon. A 40k titan could step on an ATAT.

As for space battles, this (http://img4.imageshack.us/my.php?image=stardestroyerdivineinte.gif ) picture posted earlier in the thread sums it up pretty well. That ship is only normal size for 40k. Death Star? The Imperium destroys planets every day, and has been doing so for tens of thousands of years. It's not a matter of building a weapon to take out a planet, but which one to use.

There are some individuals in Star Wars more powerful than any in 40k save the Emperor and his Primarchs, but they'd be swamped in legions of 40k characters who are close in power to them.

Hell, I've just been talking about one of 40k's factions, and they could beat anything star wars could throw at them alone. Factor in the Eldar, Tau, Tyranids, Necrons, Orks and Chaos, and the entire star wars galaxy, including the most powerful jedi master in the galaxy, would piss themselves in fear.

With that said, 40k was designed to be more over the top than any sci fi series ever made, and Star Wars wasn't, so they're pretty much incompatible. It's like asking whether a human could beat an ant in a fight, pointless.

 

[Pyro Paul]

this i felt needs its own reply.

if the force works much like an ork waaagh than this makes my/our point for us. ork's arent taken over by demons when they use the power of the waaagh are they?

the sources of magic are different and the results of using those souces are just as different.

as to the people being attuned to pick up a passive energy field being open to attack is like saying a TV can be taken over by a cell phone signal.

orks arn't taken over by the warp because orks are... well 'perfect'.

the ork mind is too small and feeble to be taken over by the orks ('Blessed is the mind too small for doubt' Space Marine librarian). however, to counter act this shear stupidity, skills, abilities, and instructures are hard wired into their genetic code. a Mekboy for instance (ork mechanic) can construct a fully functional teleportation platform the very instant he is 'born'


the Jedi are sensitive to picking up several forms of energy, not only that of the force. they can feel and use the force for their powers, but it isn't just the force which they can sense.

... think of it like this.
when the death star destroys that planet, kenobi feels it so much so that he is disorinted by it. or like when all the jedi are ambushed, yoda feels it and is brought to his knees.


now insert the warp... which is kinda like that... only 50 times louder and non stop.
it would drive them stark raving mad.

 

[Pyro Paul]

Just gonna say two things, One: SunCrusher. Yes it's Extended universe, but it's armored to the point where it's invincible, and it destabilizes stars with it's primary weapons.

Two: High Powered sith can wipe out planets and systems pretty easily. Nihilus literally ATE planets, while Exar Kun's apprentices reached into a start and yanked out it's core to kill their persuers (setting off a chain reaction that made a cluster of stars go Nova).


Overall I'd give it to 40k because they are just to over the top, but I think individuals within Star Wars are stronger than individuals within 40k.

Blackstone fortress.
a massive super weapon under the control of the imperium which can rip holes in the warp and out right destroy entire solar systems in a single shot.


Shalaneesh.
'and with his birth, a hole was ripped asunder and immaterium spilled unto this realm. For a thousand light years in all directions all Eldar (and most all living things) died, their very spirits ripped from their still living bodies and sucked into the warp. And thus the Eye of terror was created.'


does the EU have a being which snuffed out all life in a 1000 light year radius?



but that point aside, Daemon princes and Primarchs are capable of doing the things you mentioned above single handedly as well, and they don't have to rely on some arbitrary magical force to do it.

 

[McNinja]

This is still going on?

The Empire is made of win.

The Imperium of Man is made of epic, overpowered win.

Really, in all honesty 40k wins. Against everything, everytime, everywhere. It is just so over the top in terms of scope, grimdark, and power.

The only thing is more people know more about star wars than they do about Warhammer 40,000.

and actually i believe Nihilus only ate the people on the planets, or fed off of their force connection. Either way he killed everything on the planets, but he did not physically consume the planet.