Warhammer 40K.
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Necromunda!
R.I.P. Necromunda. You will be missed, atrocious balance issues and all.
I guess your best bet would be... I don't know. There's a lot of lore to absorb. Maybe try the fluff in the rulebooks and codexes, that's a pretty good intro to the setting. Then once you have a passing familiarity... Lexicanum? [http://www.lexicanum.com/] Look up whichever race you like best and wiki binge.
As for actual books and such, I have no idea. There are a lot of them; I haven't read many. Try, uh, Status: Deadzone! [http://www.blacklibrary.com/all-products/Status-Deadzone.html] It's about Necromunda! The best part of the 40K setting!
R.I.P. Necromunda. You will be missed, atrocious balance issues and all.
I guess your best bet would be... I don't know. There's a lot of lore to absorb. Maybe try the fluff in the rulebooks and codexes, that's a pretty good intro to the setting. Then once you have a passing familiarity... Lexicanum? [http://www.lexicanum.com/] Look up whichever race you like best and wiki binge.
As for actual books and such, I have no idea. There are a lot of them; I haven't read many. Try, uh, Status: Deadzone! [http://www.blacklibrary.com/all-products/Status-Deadzone.html] It's about Necromunda! The best part of the 40K setting!
Necromunda...well, it was abandoned many years ago, the universe has moved on alot since then. IMHO, it's moved in directions it really shouldn't have, but that's what happens to franchises.
What a great game!ntw3001 said:
But yea, the Horus Heresy series is the best place to start. The problem with 40k is that there is so much out there.
This ^ (you can get it at www.blacklibrary.com btw. They have it for EReaders there too). Also the Dawn of War series' of games are good if you like RTS. Oh, and just read some of the Wikipedia stuff. Its pretty informative and entertaining.TheGoldenMan said:
For the game, i'd try out Dawn of War to give you an idea on how the Space Marines work [Small squads working together as a larger unit to trash anything non-Imperium], and some of the basics of the world [Eldar, Orks, etc.]. I know my support of Dawn of War will bring some flames, but gamewise it's a much better entry than Fire Warrior or Squad Command.
For something visual, you'll have to go to Ultramarines for any sort of perspective, mainly because the live-action Dan Abnett wh40K movie is still in production. It's cheesy and kind of sketchy, but it does it's best to capture the 'central' good/evil forces, namely the Space Marines and Chaos.
Books should be your first stop, though. Ciaphas Cain gives both an exciting story and looks into the enemies of the Imperium much more in-depth than most other mediums. Cain faces down, at one point or another, basically every enemy of Mankind in one way, shape, or form. The books also capture some of the Scale the tabletop is played on, i.e. entire worlds, 50-ft. robots and system-wide space battles. After you get the run-down, look for either the backstory [Horus Heresy details the change of the Imperium for techno-giant masterpiece to clogged and bloody oppressive Theocracy] or more in-depth tales of war [Gaunt's Ghosts/First Cadian/Ultramarines].
After you get a feel for the world, look up the sourcebooks for a faction you like. The sourcebooks have units and weaponry in detail, and stories to help flesh in the lore of each faction. And remember that there is no one 'good team' for every situation.
Just for reference, I usually play T'au, or Imperial Fists [Space Marines] depending on the table setup.
For something visual, you'll have to go to Ultramarines for any sort of perspective, mainly because the live-action Dan Abnett wh40K movie is still in production. It's cheesy and kind of sketchy, but it does it's best to capture the 'central' good/evil forces, namely the Space Marines and Chaos.
Books should be your first stop, though. Ciaphas Cain gives both an exciting story and looks into the enemies of the Imperium much more in-depth than most other mediums. Cain faces down, at one point or another, basically every enemy of Mankind in one way, shape, or form. The books also capture some of the Scale the tabletop is played on, i.e. entire worlds, 50-ft. robots and system-wide space battles. After you get the run-down, look for either the backstory [Horus Heresy details the change of the Imperium for techno-giant masterpiece to clogged and bloody oppressive Theocracy] or more in-depth tales of war [Gaunt's Ghosts/First Cadian/Ultramarines].
After you get a feel for the world, look up the sourcebooks for a faction you like. The sourcebooks have units and weaponry in detail, and stories to help flesh in the lore of each faction. And remember that there is no one 'good team' for every situation.
Just for reference, I usually play T'au, or Imperial Fists [Space Marines] depending on the table setup.
Read the Ultramarines books.
No matter what people tell you about the Chapter, they are by no means boring and if you read the entire series, it gives an excellent broad sweep of the factions and motives.
[link/]http://www.amazon.com/Ultramarines-Omnibus-Warhammer-40-000/dp/1844164039[/link]
After you have gotten into the universe a bit, I would recommend the Soul Drinkers books. They give a very interesting alternate take on the Imperium and good and evil in the 40k galaxy.
[link/]http://www.amazon.com/Soul-Drinkers-Omnibus-Warhammer-Novels/dp/1844164160[/link]
Also, if you don't wan't to wade through the fifteen-ish Horus Heresy books, I would visit this wiki page for the quick version of the backstory
[link/]http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Horus_Heresy[/link]
Hope that helps and happy reading!
EDIT: I thought it was Pimppeter............
No matter what people tell you about the Chapter, they are by no means boring and if you read the entire series, it gives an excellent broad sweep of the factions and motives.
[link/]http://www.amazon.com/Ultramarines-Omnibus-Warhammer-40-000/dp/1844164039[/link]
After you have gotten into the universe a bit, I would recommend the Soul Drinkers books. They give a very interesting alternate take on the Imperium and good and evil in the 40k galaxy.
[link/]http://www.amazon.com/Soul-Drinkers-Omnibus-Warhammer-Novels/dp/1844164160[/link]
Also, if you don't wan't to wade through the fifteen-ish Horus Heresy books, I would visit this wiki page for the quick version of the backstory
[link/]http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Horus_Heresy[/link]
Hope that helps and happy reading!
EDIT: I thought it was Pimppeter............
No love for The Eisenhorn/Ravenor Trilogies? They're by far the best Warhammer 40k books. But that's mostly due to the fact that Space Marines are about as Relatable as Giant mechs.
You'll want to look for books by Dan Abnett and Graham Mcneill. Other than that Sandy Mitchell is good (Ciaphas cain is a more lighthearted look at the grimness of the 41st millenia.)
The problem with the Horus Heresy series is that after the first four books (Horus Rising, False Gods, Let the Galaxy Burn, and Flight of the Eisenstein) They are basically stand alone books that simply take place in the same timeline, not correlating to the same characters. Also I personally found the huge number of authors to step on each other's toes when it came to character personalities.
You'll want to look for books by Dan Abnett and Graham Mcneill. Other than that Sandy Mitchell is good (Ciaphas cain is a more lighthearted look at the grimness of the 41st millenia.)
The problem with the Horus Heresy series is that after the first four books (Horus Rising, False Gods, Let the Galaxy Burn, and Flight of the Eisenstein) They are basically stand alone books that simply take place in the same timeline, not correlating to the same characters. Also I personally found the huge number of authors to step on each other's toes when it came to character personalities.
Start by reading the Ultramarines books. Then play a few Dawn of War games. By then, if you 're still interested you should be able to find your own 40K niche.
Some of it is out-dated canon and made-up fan-fluff. Not the most reliable.JJMUG said:
Wrong! The stars are the limit.HT_Black said:
I'd disagree that the Horus Heresy books would be a good place to start, they rely too much on knowing the background of the setting.
Especially the first one. Abnett, as usual avoiding writing an actual story, spent most of his time finding slightly new ways of saying having characters say "but, of course, such things could never happen (except, dear reader, you know they did)" in order to hold the foreshadowing together".
I gave up on the 40k books awhile ago, so I've not read all the HH stuff, but they were hardly the best 40k stuff around. Comparisons to the Star Wars prequels would be exagerated, but not without some truth. They reached the point that many tie in books series start out at, when they realise that they can stick their logo on anything written by anyone and the fans will eagerly lap it up.
IMHO, the best 40k (or Warhammer) stuff tends to be the older books. The Inquisition War Trilogy comes to mind, as does the Space Wolf series[footnote]While it was written by Bill King, that is, not after they'd given it to two people who'd never actually written anything, but happened to be big fans[/footnote]. Angels of Darkness was, at time of writing, the best Space Marine story, later surpassed by the even better (if somewhat derivative) Lords of the Night[footnote]But don't read the epilogue, it's a cheap sequel hook that ruins the impact of the otherwise brilliant ending[/footnote]. Deathworld was another great book, probably the best Imperial Guard (though Catachan, which is unusual) story, and actually fairly creepy at times. Pawns of Chaos by Brian Craig (you may know him as Brian Stableford) was an excellent depiction of chaos, though it drags in the middle.
The Soul Drinkers and Grey Knights series by Ben Counter started off very strongly, but fell into decline with the rest of BL.
I'd avoid Abnett's stuff in general. He seems to ever have only two endings for anything, a Deus ex Machina, or the death of the enemy commander, unless he combines the two. He likes writings ridiculously over the top Mary Sues, and is struggles to create any hero other than a generic good guy action movie type, which is a serious problem in a setting like 40k. The first Gaunt's Ghosts novel, First and Only, however, was before he saw his characters as his children (his words), so was the only good one of the series.
Ciaphas Cain...well, he's a one joke character, spread out over quite a few novels. He's been described as "The Flashman of 40k", and there is some truth in that, with the exception that the author excised everything which made Flashman great, turning what might have been an unique and interesting character into just another boring hero. This is a particular shame, as the author has written some other stories which were very good.
The Ultramarines books were mindlessly readable, but hardly great, and the author cannot resist throwing in movie quotes regardless of it they fit the story or not. Also, IMHO, the Chapter has been badly handled by GW in general. It's been criticised as being boring, in that it has always been defined as the template that unique chapters break away from, so GW changed them from the template, taking away the one thing they had, rather than make the template more interesting.
Don't buy anything with the name "C S Goto" on it. Just don't.
...
All of the above is my opinion, however (which saw me getting banned from the Black Library forum when they still had one)[footnote]CL Werner discussed creating a character based on me named "Thaul Festerheart", due to my being the only person on the forum to consistently criticise BL publications, but my only cameo that I know of was merely named "Festerheart", which bears no relationship to my username.[/footnote], there are plenty of people who enjoy the direction that 40k has moved in in the last few years
Especially the first one. Abnett, as usual avoiding writing an actual story, spent most of his time finding slightly new ways of saying having characters say "but, of course, such things could never happen (except, dear reader, you know they did)" in order to hold the foreshadowing together".
I gave up on the 40k books awhile ago, so I've not read all the HH stuff, but they were hardly the best 40k stuff around. Comparisons to the Star Wars prequels would be exagerated, but not without some truth. They reached the point that many tie in books series start out at, when they realise that they can stick their logo on anything written by anyone and the fans will eagerly lap it up.
IMHO, the best 40k (or Warhammer) stuff tends to be the older books. The Inquisition War Trilogy comes to mind, as does the Space Wolf series[footnote]While it was written by Bill King, that is, not after they'd given it to two people who'd never actually written anything, but happened to be big fans[/footnote]. Angels of Darkness was, at time of writing, the best Space Marine story, later surpassed by the even better (if somewhat derivative) Lords of the Night[footnote]But don't read the epilogue, it's a cheap sequel hook that ruins the impact of the otherwise brilliant ending[/footnote]. Deathworld was another great book, probably the best Imperial Guard (though Catachan, which is unusual) story, and actually fairly creepy at times. Pawns of Chaos by Brian Craig (you may know him as Brian Stableford) was an excellent depiction of chaos, though it drags in the middle.
The Soul Drinkers and Grey Knights series by Ben Counter started off very strongly, but fell into decline with the rest of BL.
I'd avoid Abnett's stuff in general. He seems to ever have only two endings for anything, a Deus ex Machina, or the death of the enemy commander, unless he combines the two. He likes writings ridiculously over the top Mary Sues, and is struggles to create any hero other than a generic good guy action movie type, which is a serious problem in a setting like 40k. The first Gaunt's Ghosts novel, First and Only, however, was before he saw his characters as his children (his words), so was the only good one of the series.
Ciaphas Cain...well, he's a one joke character, spread out over quite a few novels. He's been described as "The Flashman of 40k", and there is some truth in that, with the exception that the author excised everything which made Flashman great, turning what might have been an unique and interesting character into just another boring hero. This is a particular shame, as the author has written some other stories which were very good.
The Ultramarines books were mindlessly readable, but hardly great, and the author cannot resist throwing in movie quotes regardless of it they fit the story or not. Also, IMHO, the Chapter has been badly handled by GW in general. It's been criticised as being boring, in that it has always been defined as the template that unique chapters break away from, so GW changed them from the template, taking away the one thing they had, rather than make the template more interesting.
Don't buy anything with the name "C S Goto" on it. Just don't.
...
All of the above is my opinion, however (which saw me getting banned from the Black Library forum when they still had one)[footnote]CL Werner discussed creating a character based on me named "Thaul Festerheart", due to my being the only person on the forum to consistently criticise BL publications, but my only cameo that I know of was merely named "Festerheart", which bears no relationship to my username.[/footnote], there are plenty of people who enjoy the direction that 40k has moved in in the last few years
If you're talking about video games, check out the Dawn of War series, of course. Playing through all those campaigns will give you at least a thematic understanding of the different forces involved.
I'm sure the upcoming Space Marine game will be fun, but I doubt it's going to impress long-term 40k players as much as DoW simply because 40K doesn't endear itself to 'hero cuts a swathe through legions of enemies'. In 40K, LEGIONS cut swathes through legions. A single man, even an astartes (space marine), is utterly utterly utterly utterly utterly insignificant. Think like a grain of sand on a beach - on a planet the size of Jupiter.
Even the greatest heroes of the Imperium post-Heresy have barely had an influence on even the smallest corner of the galaxy. And the idea that a single squad can apparently defeat an ork waagh! and a Chaos incursion is fantasy. Unless the game is marketed as being tongue-in-cheek Imperial propaganda a la Starship Troopers (which would actually rock I think - it's important that 40K doesn't take itself too serious, despite its dark feeling).
EDIT: And for books, try Inquisition War (although many elements from that are missing in the canon these days - for example, the Squat sidekick) which introduces the mind-numbing hopelessness and insignificance of Imperial existence quite well. Also, I found the old Imperial Codex was pretty good.
I'm sure the upcoming Space Marine game will be fun, but I doubt it's going to impress long-term 40k players as much as DoW simply because 40K doesn't endear itself to 'hero cuts a swathe through legions of enemies'. In 40K, LEGIONS cut swathes through legions. A single man, even an astartes (space marine), is utterly utterly utterly utterly utterly insignificant. Think like a grain of sand on a beach - on a planet the size of Jupiter.
Even the greatest heroes of the Imperium post-Heresy have barely had an influence on even the smallest corner of the galaxy. And the idea that a single squad can apparently defeat an ork waagh! and a Chaos incursion is fantasy. Unless the game is marketed as being tongue-in-cheek Imperial propaganda a la Starship Troopers (which would actually rock I think - it's important that 40K doesn't take itself too serious, despite its dark feeling).
EDIT: And for books, try Inquisition War (although many elements from that are missing in the canon these days - for example, the Squat sidekick) which introduces the mind-numbing hopelessness and insignificance of Imperial existence quite well. Also, I found the old Imperial Codex was pretty good.
I take it you've not read his Deathwatch books. Though, for some reason, they are remembered for him having Space Marines with multilasers, and not every fucking thing else. I remember at the time the novels came out, any criticism of the book was answered with "they can have multilasers if they want to"...hell, got an abusive PM saying that Bono wanted me to die including that.Meteor4118 said:
Though, the Kal Jerico books were, IMHO, worse, which is a shame because the character had been so good in the comics, though fell into decline before WHM was axed.
WHFB had a number of dire books, that Nathan Long series comes to mind, but nothing that rivals Goto.
...
Oh, a piece of advice for people wanting to get into 40k. Don't be the sort of obsessive fan that buys lots of books, assuming that the GW logo is a guarantee of quality. Although some authors do noticeably improve, relying on this is unwise.
[small]Having said that, I still watch the new Doctor Who. I never learn.[/small]
Seconded...well, some of the great heroes are the commanders of massive forces, though.uzo said:
Unfortunately, later 40k books tend to like the usual "ragtag bunch of misfits saves galaxy" rubbish, which is totally out of place (or at least this was true before I gave up on them). Hell, Eisenhorn (almsot single handedly) saved the entire galaxy/universe/whatever at the end of his trilogy, and then warns of an even worse threat in the tie in to the Ravenor series. Bloody Abnett...
Oh, Grimm, yeah. One of the best realised GW characters, especially in his relationship with Lex (likewise).uzo said: