Warhammer 40K's story, how is it even remotely appealing?

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Aug 31, 2012
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GunsmithKitten said:
Firstly, no, that aspect of the Grey Knights has never changed. I WILL drag my copy of "Armies of the Imperium" for Epic 40k supplement if I have to.

Grey Knights can use DAEMON WEAPONS. Three words, BLADE. OF. ANTWYR.

Get it?

Yet when confronted with a, say it with me children, A DEAMON WEAPON, their course of action is to go Ed Gein on the Soriatas?

I want a source on this "Grey Knights might be immune to "chaos", but they can surely still be "affected" by it; like teeth, and claws, and whatnot. Perhaps the blood of the innocent was merely an anti-biotic", as the walking encyclopedia of 40k lore that I'm associated with has called all manner of bullshit on this assessment.
I think maybe he's (the dude you quoted, cut for space) saying that although incorruptible (that is kinda new to me, nothing in StD or the WD compilation or AotI says anything about them being incorruptible or immune, just highly resistant), they can still fall victim to offensive psychic or warp phenomenon (I don't know how true that is by current fluff, unless they were all blanks I don't see them being immune to that). Quite how a coating of SoB blood will help in that regard IDK.
 
Aug 31, 2012
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Augustine said:
goose4291 said:
Ciaphas Cain is effectively Blackadder goes Forth with lasers
Just a correction:
Actually, Cain is a direct sci-fi remake of Harry Paget Flashman http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Paget_Flashman
Sandy Mitchell has repeatedly [edit: ok, not repeatedly, once, but that's enough IMO] said it's both.

Also, apologies for double post.
 

ViewFinder

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Because the grimmer-dark setting is beyond silly. It is glorious pile overdone brooding and dark science fiction with almost every possible mythos.
 

Blind Sight

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Well...because it's completely absurd. Chainsaw swords, football hooligan orks, pistols that fire micro-RPGs, etc. Other people have given a ton of great examples. A lot of the people who have worked with the setting are definitely aware of how silly the whole thing is. That focus on the absurd and the over-the-top is what makes it so great, it's everything in science fiction turned up to 11. In order to enjoy it you basically have to stop taking it seriously and just embrace the madness.
 

Starke

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Zykon TheLich said:
GunsmithKitten said:
Firstly, no, that aspect of the Grey Knights has never changed. I WILL drag my copy of "Armies of the Imperium" for Epic 40k supplement if I have to.

Grey Knights can use DAEMON WEAPONS. Three words, BLADE. OF. ANTWYR.

Get it?

Yet when confronted with a, say it with me children, A DEAMON WEAPON, their course of action is to go Ed Gein on the Soriatas?

I want a source on this "Grey Knights might be immune to "chaos", but they can surely still be "affected" by it; like teeth, and claws, and whatnot. Perhaps the blood of the innocent was merely an anti-biotic", as the walking encyclopedia of 40k lore that I'm associated with has called all manner of bullshit on this assessment.
I think maybe he's (the dude you quoted, cut for space) saying that although incorruptible (that is kinda new to me, nothing in StD or the WD compilation or AotI says anything about them being incorruptible or immune, just highly resistant), they can still fall victim to offensive psychic or warp phenomenon (I don't know how true that is by current fluff, unless they were all blanks I don't see them being immune to that). Quite how a coating of SoB blood will help in that regard IDK.
I'm not sure Marines can be blanks, the process they go through in selecting candidates would weed them out, I'd think. And I'm really not sure how blanks could even effectively use force weapons. I was kinda under the impression that those were basically psyker only items.
 

Rutskarn

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Ultratwinkie said:
Saviordd1 said:
TheBelgianGuy said:
Yeah I wasn't clear, but I'm aware its a tabletop strategy game, and I don't mind that as it looks fun enough.

But I'm not talking about people who find the game fun or cool looking, I'm talking about the people who take the story 100% seriously.

But either way you have a point.
What rules?

Making no good guys?

That isn't a rule for adults. That is a rule for children's stories. Barely.
This is kind of the appeal. It's less "nine-year-old-notebook-cover" and more "heavy metal album cover."

I'm not a tremendous fan, but I feel like I get it nonetheless.
 

Starke

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Devoneaux said:
My argument is that it's hard to feel invested in the overarching story thus far because almost nothing of consequence has really happened. One battle amounts to about as much as the next. If the Imperium and the chaos marines have managed to last this long at each other's throats, then how important can one planet or another really be?

Warhammer 40k is choc full of planet sized battles consisting of near limitless armies biting it by the tens of thousands. How can one really care when that's all there ever is; constant battles beyond the scope of human comprehension? Does it never just come off as devalued after awhile? "oh look, another big battle over a planet containing a super weapon. How quaint. It's not like I haven't seen this a million times already..."

That said, if what you're saying is true and there's gonna be some sort of big massive finish where important stuff happens to vital places/characters? Well, I guess i'll withhold further judgement till then.
I would say you might be missing the point... a little. I know everyone else is screaming this at all the naysayers, but... 40k doesn't work as an epic narrative. The story isn't the war, the story is the characters.

It's easy to look at the location in Space Marine or Dawn of War: Dark Crusade and say, "well? So what?" But that's kind of missing the point. The point of Space Marine wasn't the planet, that was just the arena. The point was Captain Titus. The story of Space Marine was the journey of Titus, and the people he interacted with. Just like the story of DOW2: Retribution was the story of Apollo Diomades (and the other various factions' heroes).

When you look at it all as a single world, it is pretty overwhelming, and to be honest, in that respect, it's a bit like the real world: when you step back, and look at everything that happens all at once it is a bit more than most can handle, so they filter it down to what they can understand and shove the rest in a box marked "do not open until the end of days" and forget it.

When you're looking at the reason, there is a fatalistic element to 40k, but the real focal point is the characters that inhabit it and their individual fates, not the course of the galaxy, which is beyond anything they can really comprehend.
 
Aug 31, 2012
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Starke said:
I'm not sure Marines can be blanks, the process they go through in selecting candidates would weed them out, I'd think. And I'm really not sure how blanks could even effectively use force weapons. I was kinda under the impression that those were basically psyker only items.
Probably not, I was just saying that unless they were blanks they would be in some way vulnerable to psychic and warp based attacks. I suppose non psychic Grey Knights could be blanks in theory, but I don't think the Imperium would risk the implantation process messing them up. But that's idle speculation on fiction, something I prefer to stay away from in general.
 

Callate

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I really couldn't tell you. It's a perfectly fine setting for a game of course- an excuse for powerful and visually imaginative forces to give each other hell- but on a thematic level, if you really wanted to get into the thick of it, it's... I don't know. You like the angst of the whole goth-vampire thing, but it doesn't go far enough; you want to ratchet it up to the point of nihilism. And you want to identify with the really tough, don't-give-a-crap guys, just so you can show you're above all of that "individualism" stuff, even while thinking that your awareness of your lack-of-specialness puts you above the sheeple.

Taking it too seriously kind of runs counter to a lot of the reasons I play games in the first place, really.
 

goose4291

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Zykon TheLich said:
Sandy Mitchell has repeatedly [edit: ok, not repeatedly, once, but that's enough IMO] said it's both.

Also, apologies for double post.
Well it would have to be seen as Blackadders Lord Flashheart character obviously took quite a lot from him too.
 
Aug 31, 2012
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goose4291 said:
Zykon TheLich said:
Sandy Mitchell has repeatedly [edit: ok, not repeatedly, once, but that's enough IMO] said it's both.

Also, apologies for double post.
Well it would have to be seen as Blackadders Lord Flashheart character obviously took quite a lot from him too.
I've not read any of the Flashman books myself, but looking at the wikipedia page (hurr :p) I can see there is apparently a very strong stylistic resemblance (memoires, annotated by someone else) and reading through it there are some very strong direct links to the Cain novels. While Flashheart obviously took a cue from Flashman I don't think the Caiphas Cain novels got the Flashman element from Flashheart.
 

HigherTomorrow

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I play Orks. It's my job, as a part of my friendly local gaming garage, to serve as a huge bit of cannon fodder and piss everyone off using funny accents and purposefully stupid and reckless strategies. That's fun to me. They can keep the whole grimdark setting, I'll keep my Orks.
 

beniki

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HigherTomorrow said:
I play Orks. It's my job, as a part of my friendly local gaming garage, to serve as a huge bit of cannon fodder and piss everyone off using funny accents and purposefully stupid and reckless strategies. That's fun to me. They can keep the whole grimdark setting, I'll keep my Orks.
Yeah that's basically what I like about 40k. In the grim dark future there is only war with green skinned lunatics painting their vehicles bright red and loading smaller green skinned lunatics into teleportation canons.

Gorkamorka was pretty much the pinnacle of 40k for me, with the silly ingenuity of the orks ramped up to 11.
 

Chunga the Great

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Because it's sheer stupid fun to watch two massive armies go apeshit on each other with giant versions of everything. It IS immature, that's the appeal of it.
 

ccggenius12

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It's campy grimdark nonsense. To me, it somehow manages to give off the same vibe as Doctor Who. Put simply, it's really, really British.
 

Starke

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ccggenius12 said:
It's campy grimdark nonsense. To me, it somehow manages to give off the same vibe as Doctor Who. Put simply, it's really, really British.
That could have something to do with being very very British. An entirely different facet of British identity, but very much a product of their culture.
 

IrenIvy

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Personally I like three things about WH40K:
Corax and Raven Guard, because of their way of fight and goth styling (and helms)
Orks, because they are funny in a gruesomely violent way (living mushrooms that fly on ships made of trash)
And the concept of Chaos Gods, who are representing both sides of the coin (Tzeentch being a god of magic and also god of innovation and imagination) - when I first saw that concept I've thought that it is a welcome refresh from "Just being Evil" dark gods.