(Warning: Heavy) Thoughts on humanity

[Loonyyy]

Animals don't do "shitty" things. They do what they must to survive.

Humans, on the other hand, don't really have an excuse for all the "shitty" stuff they do, besides the fact that, perhaps, humans have just become shittier and shittier over the ages. The conditions in which we live have become better and better, yet humans remain to be shitty. Perhaps shittyness is in our nature.

As crimson cheesecake points out: This is simply not true. Have you seen a cat play with it's food? Heard of dolphins drowning porpoises? Lions killing the cubs of other males? The animal kingdom is a brutal place, and not everything there is necessary for survival, and even the things that are, would be considered obscene by humans. The idea that animals are just instinct and just do what is necessary, and are thus, justified, is a poor application of the naturalistic fallacy, with invalid premises.

 

[Epic Bear Man]

Humans are just another species; we have our moments of evil, and our moments of good. I'd like to show you something from World War I; one of the most horrific wars in our history. On Christmas, 1914, the French, Germans, and British all agreed to a truce so the soldiers could celebrate the holiday. What once were enemies gave greetings to one another, gave souvenirs to one another. They sang songs of celebration in their native tongues to their enemies, and they even ventured into "no man's land" to meet up with one another. All for one night, so all of the soldiers could celebrate it, so that even if it was their final day, at least they would've had a blast the previous night.

And we're talking about during a war that brought about chemical warfare.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_truce

 

[geK0]

Some humans have violent tendencies, especially under extreme circumstances such as war; therefore, KILL THE ENTIRE RACE INDISCRIMINATELY!

yep, seems rational

it's like, children's TV show villain caliber logic.

 

[Padwolf]

Well, way to generalise and ignore all the good things humanity has done. Humans can be bad, humans can be good. They aren't all the same. Some have violent tendencies, others tend to want peace. Focus on the bad like you are doing and that is all you are ever going to see and you will have no one to blame but yourself. Try opening up a little bit, try going outside really looking at the good things that are around you. There are some wonderful sights to see out there.

 

[Aerodyamic]

Wow this is melodramatic. Yeah, humans can be shitty. Get over it. You know what else can be shitty? Other animals. They do some really shitty stuff by human standards. Do you think a bunch of species should off themselves because they don't meet your own subjective moral standards of what's "good"?

This, in itself, is a depressing thing. It seems to me that due to the very nature of the universe itself (with its 2nd law of thermodynamics), life is just naturally evil/immoral. Pure selfishness is the order of the day pretty much everywhere, and it seems like the more intelligent a species gets, the worse they get (see: dolphins, chimpanzees, us).

I'm not gonna say we should just wipe everything out, though. That seems like the lazy solution to me. Ideally we'll eventually reach the point where we're able to change nature for the better, but that probably won't be for centuries at least.

Chimpanzee troupes are actually pretty well-behaved; much of the scuffling to establish the pecking order within one is about threat displays, and very rarely involves actually combat, as I understand it, and the troupes seem to be matriachal, if I remember correctly.

It's the Bonobos you have to watch out for; they'll just get up and organize a raiding party into another troupes' territory, and they have some basic tool-use skills that they take to war with them, using rocks and sticks to beat their targets. Scary enough, during these "wars", they rape, kill, mutilate and eat their "enemies".

Sounds a little like Wall Street, to me.

 

[Terminal Blue]

Chimpanzee troupes are actually pretty well-behaved; much of the scuffling to establish the pecking order within one is about threat displays, and very rarely involves actually combat, as I understand it, and the troupes seem to be matriachal, if I remember correctly.

It's the Bonobos you have to watch out for; they'll just get up and organize a raiding party into another troupes' territory, and they have some basic tool-use skills that they take to war with them, using rocks and sticks to beat their targets. Scary enough, during these "wars", they rape, kill, mutilate and eat their "enemies".

Wrong way round.

Bonobo society is not completely without violence, but it's far less violent than Chimpanzee society. The typical bonobo response to tension is to have sex with each other (homosexual and heterosexual) in order to re-cement their social bonds. Indeed, bonobos are one of the very few animals besides humans who seem to use sex for purely social reasons. Bonobos have never been observed to kill each other, even when they do fight.

Chimpanzees on the other hand are extremely territorial and much more aggressive, and have certainly been observed to kill each other (and occasionally humans) over territory. You're right in that they prefer aggressive displays over fighting, particularly to settle scores between members of the same group but against other groups it tends to be pretty no-holds-barred. There is a debate about whether this is actually natural behavior, but it seems unlikely that it isn't.

Chimpanzee society is extremely male dominated. Males are both stronger and more social than females. Although bonobos males still tend to be stronger, females are much more social with each other and thus seem to have a much more active role in society, hence why they've generally been thought of as matriarchal.

 

[repeating integers]

-snip-
And that has been our physics lesson for today.

Thanks for taking the time to write that - it looks like I may have been attempting to refer to the first law instead, because I sure as hell recognise "the law of conservation of energy". On the other hand it looks like I don't really understand that one either, so I'm wrong on all counts, then!

Still, I stand by my original point that life is inherently forced towards assholishness by what it has to do to survive. I think we humans have managed to transcend this somewhat by now (even if it took us a while), but we're still not fully there yet. So, @OP, I'd say don't wipe us out yet - not when the trend has shown us only getting better as society has progressed.

 

[geK0]

I found a picture of the OP

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

edit: actually.... I don't think mojo jojo wanted to kill all of humanity


this is more appropriate

THE OP IS MEWTWO!!!!

*throws masterball*

 

[WanderingFool]

TLR version for the bone-idle: The human race - Do we need it?

Boom. [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Heartwarming/RealLife]

In one link, I completely emasculated your argument.

Checkmate...

 

[Loonyyy]

Thanks for taking the time to write that - it looks like I may have been attempting to refer to the first law instead, because I sure as hell recognise "the law of conservation of energy". On the other hand it looks like I don't really understand that one either, so I'm wrong on all counts, then!

Still, I stand by my original point that life is inherently forced towards assholishness by what it has to do to survive. I think we humans have managed to transcend this somewhat by now (even if it took us a while), but we're still not fully there yet. So, @OP, I'd say don't wipe us out yet - not when the trend has shown us only getting better as society has progressed.

Oh certainly. Assholishness serves us much better as individuals than collaboration. See the Cuckoo, or for a more in depth approach, the Prisoners dilemma. And cheating, and selfishness, have the potential to serve us all pretty well. It's society, goodwill, morality, and collaboration that serve to keep us in check, and that's not always enough. In fact, depending on how much of society collaborates, and how much exploits, there are different returns on both. For instance, in a society where few collaborate, collaborating is unlikely to be successful, while in a society where everyone collaborates, there's little gain to exploiting.

The first law is a better example, and the what it is in mathematics is probably what you're after. It's a zero sum, as the colloquialism goes. If I want something, and I take it, someone else can't have it. Rather than cite the First Law of TD as an example, I'd use the analogy of the zero sum: There's always a constant amount of material stuff. Of course, when we take the concept of property into the digital communications age, we get a massive headache, but that's a topic for another thread.

 

[axlryder]

Wow this is melodramatic. Yeah, humans can be shitty. Get over it. You know what else can be shitty? Other animals. They do some really shitty stuff by human standards. Do you think a bunch of species should off themselves because they don't meet your own subjective moral standards of what's "good"?

Honestly, this whole thing smacks of an entitled sense of moral superiority and idealistic nonsense about what life "should" be combined with a rather fatalistic perspective. Not exactly something I'd aspire towards.

Honestly, the fact that humans have made it this far is truly miraculous in and of itself, and you'd throw that all away because we're not as "nice" as you'd like us to be? that's just silly. If you think humanity sucks, then do what you can to change it. Life has almost always existed in a state of conflict, but that conflict has grown increasingly more complex as life has evolved. Now perhaps it's time to fight against the base instincts that helped forge us into what we are today. Maybe we're heading down the entirely wrong path and need to be drastically course corrected. Who knows? If that's what you think we should aim for, then go ahead and fight for that goal. Don't just act like a quitter and say "oooh, humanity sucks, let's kill ourselves". That's just about the least interesting outcome I could think of.

Also, I honestly think you're overestimating human's sphere of influence in the universe as well as the seemingly greater inherent value of other hypothetical species. What's more, I imagine any other species that has managed to evolve very far past where we are now wouldn't exactly view us as much of a threat even if we did manage to get leaps and bounds ahead of where we currently are technologically (though that's totally speculative and potentially highly improbable). We may all just blow ourselves up before that point regardless.

Animals don't do "shitty" things. They do what they must to survive.

Humans, on the other hand, don't really have an excuse for all the "shitty" stuff they do, besides the fact that, perhaps, humans have just become shittier and shittier over the ages. The conditions in which we live have become better and better, yet humans remain to be shitty. Perhaps shittyness is in our nature.

By human standards, some of the objective actions of other animals would be deemed morally reprehensible by many humans, even in regards to destructive excess. The fact that animals aren't sentient enough to understand or care about the repercussions or potential implications of their actions doesn't change the objective reality of those actions. The fact that humans do some things on a lark and animals do it more instinctively also doesn't change the actions themselves. Humans are merely able to process and understand what could be deemed "wrong" about their actions, as well as have the capacity to do things for more than just instinctive survival.

The point, however, is that it doesn't matter what humans do. Like animals, we take actions. We exist in our universe. We don't need an "excuse" for the way we act just like other animals don't. We are what we are. Just because our brains allow us to act more selfishly, individualistically, and comprehend things on a deeper level doesn't mean we're suddenly special for the actions we take. As our brains evolved, we simply developed a new standard and paradigm for our own existence. It is an existence no better or worse than that of other animals. To say otherwise would be colossally arrogant. All animals are innately selfish beings and will do whatever they have to in order to meet their needs. As their brains evolve and their ability to think gets more advanced, their actions are less reflective of absolute necessity and more superfluous (for "better" or "worse"). It's been shown to be the natural course of things.

I'd like to clarify that I'm speaking in context to a "bigger picture" as the OP is. I don't think humans should just do away with morality or stop attempting to better ourselves through our own moral standards or something.

 

[TheRightToArmBears]

Nah, I think it's stupid. Innumerable good deeds get done every day, they're just not usually noticed as much. All species do shitty things, we just happen to have the capabilities to do it on a grand scale.

Besides, if we all killed ourselves, I think it would be a total waste. It's fucking incredible that we evolved- don't get me wrong, other animals are amazing, but the human brain is mindbogglingly complex, and it just evolved. We've been to the fucking moon. We're pretty fucking cool.

 

[Anti Nudist Cupcake]

Well, I hate that people always have a bone to pick with other people. It could be something small like "that girl shouldn't be wearing that skirt" or it could be something huge like taking rights away from people to get married to the same sex because it isn't the norm to YOU. Or it could be making fun of someone for having red hair. Or it could be the WBC spending their lives trying to tell everyone that they deserve to suffer.

It could even be something as simple as saying that people who wear fedora's look stupid. It isn't your life, it isn't your body, they like it, what does it matter? Nothing, that's what.



People are constantly up in other people's faces. Yes this has caused wars too, this has also caused people to pick fights in bars, ruined friendships, made siblings resent each other, etc. Whyyyy? Why does it matter to you so much how other people live? If they don't hurt or inconvenience you or anyone else then why is it a problem?

 

[Da Orky Man]

TO be fair, we may be the best change the planet has. A single meter strike can and has caused way more damage than we can realistically do, yet we are the only species that could prevent such as event. Ergo, we should continue to exist, and at least our current tech level for the good of the planet.

 

[Korolev]

World War II actually gives me some hope. Because as savage and brutal as that war was, as awful and terrible as the goals of Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan were.... they didn't win. That future that they were trying to create, it didn't come to pass.

Progress is slow, but possible. Human beings aren't inherently good or bad, but we inherently form order and societies over time. Humans are communal creatures, for the most part. My feeling is eventually, given enough time and the right conditions, there's plenty of hope for our species. Look at how far we've come, when you look back over the centuries. Women can vote. Slavery is official detested (although still practiced, sadly). War is, with few exceptions, no longer openly glorified. Murder rates in the developed world have plummeted. Science and technology have allowed us to understand ever more about the world.

The world has a lot of evil and heartlessness in it. But it has good people too, and our species has potential. Whether or not we'll use that potential, well, that's up to us and history. But it's there.

 

[Bobic]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Borlaug

Just peruse the introduction to that article. That guy there, saved one billion people, so don't go around saying we're all shit, and that's just an extreme example, there are millions of people who work on the side of peace and compassion and billions more who're just average none-hurtful people. Don't go blaming an entire race on the actions of only a portion of that race.

And I'd argue society is improving, it just evolves at a glacial speed. You've mentioned slavery, well, there's a lot less of it now than there used to be. More people are working on protecting the animals we share this rock with. Women's rights have improved in recent years. Education in general has gotten better and been made available to more people, which leads to more enlightenment. Yes, there are a lot of shits in all areas of all societies, but who knows, in 500 years there might not be so many. Sure, we'll all be too dead to see it, but it might turn out pretty cool.

 

[Vigormortis]

> OP and several other people rant about how pitiful, disgusting, and (specifically) violent humanity is
> they lament about how awful it is to see humans act so abhorrently destructive to one another
> they end rants by saying they want to destroy all humans


The whiny-toned hypocrisy of this thread is quite humorous.

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Yeah. Congrats. You've figured out that humans can be shitty. You've discovered that war is an ugly thing.

All I can say: Welcome to the world. This is what life IS. It's not some grotesque thing unique to humanity. All life can, and often is, destructive and violent.

But you know what? As far as life on this planet goes, humans are pretty damn far ahead of the curve when it comes to being NICE to ourselves and other species. There aren't many other creatures out there that will make a point of helping others by sacrificing their own "resources" or well-being, if they even attempt to help at all.

So...get over it. There are a lot of "bad" people out there, but there are just as many "good". The key is to admire the good ones and to tell the bad ones to "fuck off".