Johnny Novgorod said:
Even if "everybody" includes hardcore gamers, whatever that constitutes?
It's becoming more and more my experience that the real problem with mainstream/casual/whatever is that everyone can enjoy it, so "you"[footnote]Not you specifically, but the general "you" who is complaining complaining[/quote] are no longer special.
This may be a gross oversimplification, but I unfortunately can't read minds and can only go off people's words and try and parse for context. The thing is, when I hear people's reasons I'm constantly reminded of Syndrome's line from The Incredibles about how if everyone is super, than nobody is. And it really does come off as "if everyone can enjoy this, then I can't."
Using another example, I saw a lot of people complaining about Checkpoints robbing the difficulty in GTA V. Now, this is another franchise I never particularly thought was hard or hardcore, but whatever. If you want gold medals, you often have to not die at all. However, despite the fact that the playstyle was not only available but tracked and necessary for at least one achievement or trophy, it wasn't enough because...I don't know. I can fill in the reason that "filthy casuals are enjoying it too," but I don't remember if it was ever explicitly said or if it just came off that way.
Personally, I thought checkpoints were an issue more because they were a crutch for a rather capricious game and design issues, so I'm not saying these things can't be criticised, but the reasons were things like "it's not hard enough if I play it a certain way." And my thought was "How fortunate then, that you don't have to."
And then there was the idea that an "easy mode" would ruin Dark Souls 2 FOREVAH! Hell, people even balked at seemingly trivial things like explaining what stats affect what.
But you know what? DS is a niche series, and I have less issue with that than I do with something intended to be consumed by millions of people being trashed simply for being designed to be consumed by millions of people.
briankoontz said:
Can we separate the term "mainstream" from "casual", please?
We probably could, but I'm not sure I care enough. I'm using the terms interchangeably in part because they were used interchangeably in the context in question and also because I think the terms are mostly a load of crap that's really only necessary if you're in marketing.
Netrigan said:
The second game introduced the concept of fighting your way out of an alert and since fighting has always been pretty easy in the Assassin's Creed Universe, there suddenly wasn't much of a reason to use all those hiding spots littered around the city. Cut down a dozen guard and you're magically in the clear... although, depending on which game it is, you might have to tear down some wanted posters to retain your anonymity.
This is another thing I'd forgotten about. It's worth noting that there are missions in at least Brotherhood where hiding isn't even an option. Most of these are at the end of the game, after the Point of No Return, but not all of them. Or, more accurately to some of them, you can hide but get spotted the moment you come out of hiding.
CrazyBlaze said:
The worst was AC III. It wasn't until like half way through that it stopped feeling like a tutorial.
Saints Row 3 was very much like this.
Which leads me to....
nomotog said:
It hurts the experience of your existing players though. Having the first half of the game a review of everything you already know is really dull. It may be good for people who are picking up the series for the first time, but anyone who has played it before will have a very boring experience. The thing is that we are over 6 games in. The number of new people who are coming in blind has got to be low compared to the number of people who played before.
They're never going to stop pandering to the new market, though. They want to hook people in.
Now, games used to have separate tutorial sections or even manuals to explain things and then you could choose what to do, but I think the reason they do it this way is that nobody wants to show how short their game really is. Plus, that would mean separate development time, and as we know from the Unity controversy, multiple years and multiple dev teams are barely enough to get a working AC game out the door.
Fewer and fewer mainstream games seem to be willing to do a separate tutorial, and I think it's mostly so they can double dip: pad out their game and not have to make extra stuff. This is also off-putting for me, because if there's no tutorial and no manual, I have to either replay the early missions to learn the ropes again or hunt online. This makes me less likely to pick up a game after I've put it down for a week or two, because I probably will have forgotten (unless it's a boilerplate shooter, or a Saints Row/GTA game).
I don't want my hand held, but a dedicated spot to learn the controls or relearn them would be nice. Without having to go back through the mission that taught me what the left stick does.
