Was God of War III's story trying to do more than we think?

[Johnny Novgorod]

I think a lot of people would benefit from playing Ghost of Sparta before playing God of War III.
The game takes place between GOW1 and GOW2...

Spoiler

Knowing of the prophecy that would one day get him killed, Zeus sent Athena and Ares to Sparta to kidnap his bastard Spartan son. But instead of taking Kratos, Athena and Ares took his weak kid brother Deimos. Kratos failed to protect him and grew up resenting the gods for taking his brother away from him. As an adult he learns that Deimos is in fact alive, having been imprisoned in the underworld for his entire life. So he goes on a rescue mission, during which he also learns his mother was also imprisoned by Zeus in an attempt to hide the truth of Kratos' lineage/prophecy from him. Although Kratos reunites with both his mom and his kid bro, he is forced to kill his mutated mother, and fails to protect his brother a second time, who is killed in a duel with Death. By the end of the game Kratos has every reason to hate the gods even more: Zeus basically killed Kratos' mother and brother in an attempt to both hide and change his fate.

Adding insult to injury, Kratos also learns that Athena deliberately kidnapped the wrong kid. She was planning Zeus' demise all along, chronologically since before the very first game. She kidnappe Deimos pretending she was appeasing Zeus while ensuring Kratos' well-being, knowing he would one day kill Zeus. Kratos' tortured life, as well as the death of every person he ever cared for, were engineered by Athena's power-play.

Of course the third game does a lousy job at incorporating all of this into its story. If you play games 1-2-3 Kratos is just some jerk. But if you play Ghost of Sparta along the way, the plot thickens. Kratos is still an unrelatable jerk but his actions make a little more sense.

 

[bartholen_v1legacy]

Of course the third game does a lousy job at incorporating all of this into its story. If you play games 1-2-3 Kratos is just some jerk. But if you play Ghost of Sparta along the way, the plot thickens. Kratos is still an unrelatable jerk but his actions make a little more sense.

Um... that might be because Ghost of Sparta came out after God of War 3, and was written and made by a completely different studio and people. Though we can't confirm whether or not it was always meant to be part of the timeline, I don't view it as anything more than a side story rather than a vital piece of the continuity.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

Of course the third game does a lousy job at incorporating all of this into its story. If you play games 1-2-3 Kratos is just some jerk. But if you play Ghost of Sparta along the way, the plot thickens. Kratos is still an unrelatable jerk but his actions make a little more sense.

Um... that might be because Ghost of Sparta came out after God of War 3, and was written and made by a completely different studio and people. Though we can't confirm whether or not it was always meant to be part of the timeline, I don't view it as anything more than a side story rather than a vital piece of the continuity.

You can give it as much importance as you want to. It's not "some spin-off", it was written by the director of GOW2 and GOW3, and co-developed by the same studio that published every game in the series. I realize it came out a few months after GOW3, but then so what? The point is the story in GOW3 is enrichened by Ghost of Sparta's, and if you play it in order you get to enjoy the experience more. I know I did.

 

[Legomaniac91_v1legacy]

I'd mostly chalk up the inconsistencies to bad writing, but I do have my own head-canon for GOW III. The real Athena has been dead since the second game and the ghost/specter/Athena who was guiding Kratos was actually Loki of Asgard! He tried to get Kratos to retrieve Pandora's box from him to use in a scheme to conquer Asgard, but he didn't realize how much of an angry, idiotic, meathead Kratos was. Loki still considers this a victory since he takes the sword of Olympus, thinking it could still be useful, and notes that at least he won't have to worry about Olympus standing in his way. This might lead to a different setting for the fourth game where you play as Tyr, some viking warrior, or a Valkyrie in order to thwart Loki's schemes.

 

[WaysideMaze]

You're the one acting hostile. I kept the discussion based about evidence that God of War 3 wasn't "subverting tropes" but simply tried to have it's cake and eat it too based around inconsistency of writing (specifically, in Kratos's characterization) with God of War 1.

You on the other hand switched to trying to justify said characterization, saying Kratos was crazy, and IGNORING THE POINT OF YOUR OWN FUCKING THREAD.

And I do like God of War's writing, just not God of War 2's writing, or God of War 3's writing (the gameplay in the second was better though). The main reason for which is again, inconsistencies that turn into a shit-ton of fridge logic.

If I was hostile, I'd accuse you of sexism (let's not forget, your main "evidence" was that the writer was a woman)...

No, you're the one acting hostile.

You are aware that The Blue Rider didn't actually start this thread, right? Nor did he mention subverting tropes, or bring up anything to do with the writer being a woman. That was all bartholen.

 

[DirgeNovak]

God of War III's story was just plain bad and completely killed Kratos as a character.

Kratos cared about stuff before III. His story in I and II was interesting because he gave at least a little bit of a shit about people. Calliope. Lysandra. Athena. Gaia. That Spartan dude in II. He seemed to have some amount of sympathy for Persephone. He was distressed when he accidentally killed Athena. Fast forward to III and he murders Peirithous for the bow he was offering him, murders Hera who posed no threat to him, cuts off Gaia's hand out of pure spite and more generally destroys the entire world.

Bringing back Athena was also a big mistake. She should have stayed dead.

 

[Casual Shinji]

I think a lot of people would benefit from playing Ghost of Sparta before playing God of War III.
The game takes place between GOW1 and GOW2...

Spoiler

Knowing of the prophecy that would one day get him killed, Zeus sent Athena and Ares to Sparta to kidnap his bastard Spartan son. But instead of taking Kratos, Athena and Ares took his weak kid brother Deimos. Kratos failed to protect him and grew up resenting the gods for taking his brother away from him. As an adult he learns that Deimos is in fact alive, having been imprisoned in the underworld for his entire life. So he goes on a rescue mission, during which he also learns his mother was also imprisoned by Zeus in an attempt to hide the truth of Kratos' lineage/prophecy from him. Although Kratos reunites with both his mom and his kid bro, he is forced to kill his mutated mother, and fails to protect his brother a second time, who is killed in a duel with Death. By the end of the game Kratos has every reason to hate the gods even more: Zeus basically killed Kratos' mother and brother in an attempt to both hide and change his fate.

Adding insult to injury, Kratos also learns that Athena deliberately kidnapped the wrong kid. She was planning Zeus' demise all along, chronologically since before the very first game. She kidnappe Deimos pretending she was appeasing Zeus while ensuring Kratos' well-being, knowing he would one day kill Zeus. Kratos' tortured life, as well as the death of every person he ever cared for, were engineered by Athena's power-play.

Of course the third game does a lousy job at incorporating all of this into its story. If you play games 1-2-3 Kratos is just some jerk. But if you play Ghost of Sparta along the way, the plot thickens. Kratos is still an unrelatable jerk but his actions make a little more sense.

Isn't that just an attempt to try and retroactively make Kratos less of a shitheel, which is something they probably should've thought of before turning him into such a giant douche? And if Kratos grew up resenting the gods, how come in GoW1 he has a great deal of resepect for them (except Ares)? I mean, he bows before nearly all of them and adresses them as 'Lord'. And better yet, why would he sell his soul to Ares at all, knowing the gods took his brother from him?

It is amazing how much this franchise suddenly started to back paddle on Kratos' jerk levels after GoW3. Ascension goes as far as to have Kratos push a guy out of the line of fire. Madness, I say!

 

[Ihateregistering1]

Honestly, I liked the fact that God of War was one of the few games in which you actually played a straight up evil character.

In 99% of other games when you play as an Evil character, it's either you can choose to be good, bad, or somewhere in between (Dragon Age, Baldur's Gate, etc.) or your character is evil, but it's played tongue in cheek or for laughs (Overlord, Dungeon Keeper, etc.). GoW was one of the few games I can remember in which your character is unapologetically awful and the game doesn't try to sugar coat it.

 

[Chester Rabbit]

Honestly, I liked the fact that God of War was one of the few games in which you actually played a straight up evil character.

In 99% of other games when you play as an Evil character, it's either you can choose to be good, bad, or somewhere in between (Dragon Age, Baldur's Gate, etc.) or your character is evil, but it's played tongue in cheek or for laughs (Overlord, Dungeon Keeper, etc.). GoW was one of the few games I can remember in which your character is unapologetically awful and the game doesn't try to sugar coat it.

except 2 and 3 very much do try to sugarcoat it and still try to portray him as the protagonist by desperately attempting to make the gods appear even worse.(Something they completely fail at.)

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

I think a lot of people would benefit from playing Ghost of Sparta before playing God of War III.
The game takes place between GOW1 and GOW2...

Spoiler

Knowing of the prophecy that would one day get him killed, Zeus sent Athena and Ares to Sparta to kidnap his bastard Spartan son. But instead of taking Kratos, Athena and Ares took his weak kid brother Deimos. Kratos failed to protect him and grew up resenting the gods for taking his brother away from him. As an adult he learns that Deimos is in fact alive, having been imprisoned in the underworld for his entire life. So he goes on a rescue mission, during which he also learns his mother was also imprisoned by Zeus in an attempt to hide the truth of Kratos' lineage/prophecy from him. Although Kratos reunites with both his mom and his kid bro, he is forced to kill his mutated mother, and fails to protect his brother a second time, who is killed in a duel with Death. By the end of the game Kratos has every reason to hate the gods even more: Zeus basically killed Kratos' mother and brother in an attempt to both hide and change his fate.

Adding insult to injury, Kratos also learns that Athena deliberately kidnapped the wrong kid. She was planning Zeus' demise all along, chronologically since before the very first game. She kidnappe Deimos pretending she was appeasing Zeus while ensuring Kratos' well-being, knowing he would one day kill Zeus. Kratos' tortured life, as well as the death of every person he ever cared for, were engineered by Athena's power-play.

Of course the third game does a lousy job at incorporating all of this into its story. If you play games 1-2-3 Kratos is just some jerk. But if you play Ghost of Sparta along the way, the plot thickens. Kratos is still an unrelatable jerk but his actions make a little more sense.

Isn't that just an attempt to try and retroactively make Kratos less of a shitheel, which is something they probably should've thought of before turning him into such a giant douche? And if Kratos grew up resenting the gods, how come in GoW1 he has a great deal of resepect for them (except Ares)? I mean, he bows before nearly all of them and adresses them as 'Lord'. And better yet, why would he sell his soul to Ares at all, knowing the gods took his brother from him?

For that matter there is Chains of Olympus, which takes place before GOW1. He serves the gods there for the same reason he serves them in GOW1 - to get rid of the nightmares that blah blah blah. Not the most creative answer but that's why Kratos """"respected"""" them in the first place. As for selling his soul to Ares, I always saw it as a heat-of-the-moment thing even before I played any of the other God of War games. The guy was about to die after all.

 

[Ihateregistering1]

Honestly, I liked the fact that God of War was one of the few games in which you actually played a straight up evil character.

In 99% of other games when you play as an Evil character, it's either you can choose to be good, bad, or somewhere in between (Dragon Age, Baldur's Gate, etc.) or your character is evil, but it's played tongue in cheek or for laughs (Overlord, Dungeon Keeper, etc.). GoW was one of the few games I can remember in which your character is unapologetically awful and the game doesn't try to sugar coat it.

except 2 and 3 very much do try to sugarcoat it and still try to portray him as the protagonist by desperately attempting to make the gods appear even worse.(Something they completely fail at.)

I mean sugarcoat as in attempt to make it lighthearted or tongue in cheek, which they don't at all.

And if anything, compared to the first game, I think they make him look far worse. In GoW 2, he sends his Spartan Warriors out to murder and kill people for no other reason than "he's pissed off". In 3, it clearly makes him pretty awful, as he continues to go on his killing spree despite knowing the death and destruction it causes to everyone else.

True, they do make the Gods of Olympus look bad too, but that actually fits a lot of the Greek Mythology narrative, where the Gods were often depicted as petty, arrogant, jealous, backstabbers.

He might be the protagonist, but that doesn't necessarily mean we're supposed to think he's in the right.