Was the original Bioshock as good as it is remembered?

[Casual Shinji]

Much like Infinte however, I think it would have been better as something other than a shooter. A stealth game perhaps? That would allowed and emphasised exploration while avoiding the excessive shootiness.

No kidding.

The parts of Infinite that I've enjoyed the most up to this point have been the intro to Columbia and that bit with Elizabeth at the beach. Just wandering around checking the place out.

Maybe if it was like a detective game.

 

[Zhukov]

Much like Infinte however, I think it would have been better as something other than a shooter. A stealth game perhaps? That would allowed and emphasised exploration while avoiding the excessive shootiness.

What about Dishonored? The Mechanics are pretty much Bioshock as a stealth game, and I found an analogy for almost every part of the gameplay.

Uh... what about Dishonored?

They're very different creatures. In Dishonored the narrative elements are crap and are just there to give some context to the stabbing (or not-stabbing as the case may be). The setting is really cool, but it's just a backdrop to the stabbing.

In Bioshock and Infinite, the narrative elements are excellent and the setting is integral to that narrative, but the shooting is just kind of there because it's people expect it to be there because it's a game and a game must have shooting or something.

Much like Infinte however, I think it would have been better as something other than a shooter. A stealth game perhaps? That would allowed and emphasised exploration while avoiding the excessive shootiness.

No kidding.

The parts of Infinite that I've enjoyed the most up to this point have been the intro to Columbia and that bit with Elizabeth at the beach. Just wandering around checking the place out.

Maybe if it was like a detective game.

For all my griping, I actually had an absolute blast with the shooting in Infinite. Plus, my love of the story enhanced the fun of the shooting. Killing stuff is better when you have a good reason and context to do it.

However, while the story enhanced the gameplay, I guess my problem is that the gameplay did not enhance the story.

Maybe if they'd just toned it down a bit. Removed the more cartoony elements, and spread the violence a little thinner. Then it could have emphasized the darker elements of the journey without getting a bit silly. Maybe that would have been enough.

Oh, I dunno.

 

[Casual Shinji]

For all my griping, I actually had an absolute blast with the shooting in Infinite. Plus, my love of the story enhanced the fun of the shooting. Killing stuff is better when you have a good reason and context to do it.

However, while the story enhanced the gameplay, I guess my problem is that the gameplay did not enhance the story.

Maybe if they'd just toned it down a bit. Removed the more cartoony elements, and spread the violence a little thinner. Then it could have emphasized the darker elements of the journey without getting a bit silly. Maybe that would have been enough.

Oh, I dunno.

For me the shooting just kinda gets in the way of my enjoyment of the dazzling setting. The shooting isn't bad, it just feels like a hassle I have to force myself through inorder to get to the good stuff.

One thing I love about Infinite is that you get to see the floating city in its prime, unlike most other games including Bioshock where you're told it used to be a beautiful place, but it's all shitty and dilapidated now. Seeing this wonderfully picturesque setting with barbershop quartets singing 'God Only Knows' and 'Girls Just Wanna Have Fun' playing on the musical organ, it's a shame I have spend most of my time shooting guns.

 

[Poetic Nova]

It was never a good game in my oppinion, after playing it for a couple of hours full of mediocrity it ended in the bin.

 

[MiracleOfSound]

It's a deeply flawed game (the final third was a slog) but it has a very unique and special, magical feel to it which lets me overlook the flaws.

Also, OP ya might wanna put some paragraphs in that post. It's kinda hard to look at.

 

[Headdrivehardscrew]

Why do the Little Sisters require protection? Well, a rough 99.99% of the inhabitants of Rapture have gone bonkers and are now running amuck, maiming and killing everyone on sight?

I'm not really too certain at this point that you actually finished the game.

Making the Big Daddies the garbage trucks of the game would certainly make some sense, had you been given writing and directing positions, but it wouldn't make for much of a fun gameplay mechanic. Don't forget this bit - it's a game. The mechanics you have to bow down to are basic and simple, and yet their execution is what keeps people entertained.

You're handing out your jury cards of ultimate judgement to characters in other people's games, but, despite your tightly packed wall of text, it really seems to be a very shallow approach. You seem to take things at face value, without so much as even considering reading some of the source material, or in Bioshock's case, just melonfarming googling up Ayn Rand and reading snippets of her thoughts or watching her talk and walk and sit around by the powers of Grayskull Google.

Just because you don't get it doesn't mean it's officially devoid of meaning or substance. I love Demon's and Dark Souls, because I got so much out of them. I tried playing and read into both the Assassin's Creed and the Mass Effect lore, but they piss me off beyond description. We're just not compatible. Like Harry Melonfarming Potter, they are my Cryptonite. Expose me to Ass Creed, Ass Effect or Harry Potter and there won't be any sex for at least a week.

Oh, and, in the end, you basically become a Big Daddy. You can also cram Jack's bio mass into a female Big Daddy, I always wondered what would happen to his naughty bits. You seem to have missed that one.

Yeah, I liked Bioshock so much there's still a Big Daddy looking down at me from the bookshelf. Thing is, I've seen Logan's Run, I've read 1984, I've read Atlas Shrugged. Maybe I'm seeing things that aren't there, but maybe I also get more of the art that makes Ken Levine who and what he is. Are video games an art form worthy of being displayed in museums and talked about five hundred years from now? Probably not. But, as an interactive medium, I think it's important to get as much out of a game - any game - that goes beyond shooting ducks and mastering 500-hit-combos. I love me some Tekken, but I don't give a damn about its lore. I never did. Bioshock is an original title, that, albeit being a maybe lesser reincarnation of System Shock (2), is a remarkable experience, feat and work of art all rolled into one.

See, we live in a day and age where we can have fancy graphics and a fistful of magic sprinkle special effects, but those always come at a cost. With Bioshock, as with many other titles, that cost was the rather small playing field, level, slice of everything one could access between being suspended in loading loading wonderland. All in all, I think Bioshock is not only a remarkable, but an important title.

As for the franchise - well, I am one that mostly did not like Bioshock Infinite. It did not excite me as much as Bioshock did. It did not fill me with dread and make me feel super good after killing the first few big bad Big Daddy enemies. It was a nice interactive movie experience, in a way, but as a game, it felt shallow, artificial, made-up like a castle in the sky. But that's me, maybe overthinking things. I still hope to get more Bioshock, or something, anything like it that's worthwhile.

I also don't agree on Fallout 3. It's internet truth that Fallout 3 is a jumbled mess of everything and nothing, but I, as an absolute fan of Fallout and Fallout 2, still liked most of the ride, even though I developed an aversion to metro stations.

 

[Mr.Squishy]

It's pretty alright. A bunch of holes, like you pointed out, but still a waaaaaay-above average FPS.

 

[IrateDonnie]

Well, I'll let you in on a secret. I only got the original bioshock today. >.>

I've only gotten to the medical pavilion, but what i've seen so far definitely lives up to what's been said of the game. I'm already in love with the setting, and am reading the book "Rapture" by John Shirley in tandem with playing the game.

The book is awesome, it does a really good job of tying Bioshock & Bioshock 2 together.

 

[unindexedsearchengine]

Well, I'll let you in on a secret. I only got the original bioshock today. >.>

I've only gotten to the medical pavilion, but what i've seen so far definitely lives up to what's been said of the game. I'm already in love with the setting, and am reading the book "Rapture" by John Shirley in tandem with playing the game.

The book is awesome, it does a really good job of tying Bioshock & Bioshock 2 together.

I'm really enjoying it, just one question. I'm reading it in Hungarian, so I can't tell if they are the quotes, but are the quotes at the bottom of the loading screens from the book or not? They seem to address event in the book, and through rough translation I seem to have found them, but I can't be sure.

 

[Diddy_Mao]

Bioshock is a good game and, when compared side by side with other games in it's genre I'd say it's probably one of the best, coming in at a close second behind Half Life 2.

I'm an easy mark for Steam punk and horror aesthetics so combining the two successfully makes me a fairly big fan of the game's overall design. However I have to admit I wasn't overly fond of the actual game play itself.

In most shooters there's usually an almost instinctual "feel" for what weapons you should use in a situation.
Swarm of lowbie monsters, whip out the shotgun or splash damage grenades.
small groups of standard filler enemies, keep with the pistol.
and so on and so forth.

With Bioshock...other than the Big Daddy fights the only reason I ever switched weapons was because I got bored with the one I was using. Same with the Plasmids, I pretty much only used them because I was getting bored with the guns.

That's a pretty big flaw for me, if you're going to introduce a "magic" system into an FPS it needs to make itself useful. While conceptually shooting bees out of my hands might sound like reward enough in and of itself...I'd prefer to be given a reason to use these things beyond just "because I can."

So, long story short. For me Bioshock falls into an unfortunate category of games like Black & White and Brutal Legend where I love the concept so much that I frequently overlook the deeply flawed game it's wrapped around.

 

[CrimsonBlaze]

Not sure if you actually paid attention to the story or if you didn't actually read the audio logs that were scattered throughout Rapture, which you had the option of not listening to them if you chose to.

The audio logs were essential to fleshing out the story and allowing you to learn about Rapture without taking you out of the game or taking time to explain it in a cutscene, which is something that Bioshock received a lot of praise for. If you just wanted to plow through the game, with little to no story or exploration, you could do that as well; there's plenty of action in the game.

It seems like you did the latter and when you came across unavoidable story sections, you were confused because you probably didn't listen to the audio logs.

The characters were all great; they all represented the best and brightest individuals in a city where there where no restraints or laws against what they could or couldn't do, going completely insane due to their obsession with ADAM and plunging into insanity as a result of the civil war. Again, the audio logs helped explain their back story, as well as their slow descend into madness as they gave into their desires where law and morality would have otherwise restrained them.

The game play was great and incredibly unique. The Plasmids more than simply alternatives to weapons; they allowed you to interact with the environment in different ways. For example, the Electro Bolt could be used to stun foes, but if used in a pool of water, you can electrocute them, as well as activate certain switches.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

Bioshock 1 Spoilers...

Bioshock has so many problems as a game that it's at best maybe a 7/10 game even when overlooking several things just because you really like certain aspects. Firstly, the whole twist and plot implode on itself because the assassination plan is the worst plan in the history of assassination plans; if you send someone to kill Ryan, he just comes back to life in a vita-chamber. Ryan only died because he choose to. The game gives up on the things it does well, the horror aspects are quickly abandoned when what's there in the beginning is great. Most of the game feels like side-quests. One of the best parts is with the artist guy (forgot his name) but that's just a side-quest. Doing whatever with the plants was uninteresting and felt like artificially adding length to the game. The middle sections of the game felt so much like a chore. Lastly, the game is a FPS, and the shooting isn't very good.

 

[JoJo]

No... it's even better.

Okay, maybe I'm a tiny bit biased but the game actually had a story and characters with depth (still unfortunately rare for video games), complete with a unique setting. The gameplay was reasonable, not the best but not terrible either.

 

[Berithil]

I'm playing it now for the first time, and I think it's a great game. The story is great, with the help of the audio logs, as well as the setting. I can't really think of anything particular to nitpick about. It's not a perfect game, but still very enjoyable.

 

[Therumancer]

In Conclusion
Now I know this was pretty rough. I know some of you are cracking your knuckles as you prepare to tear me a new one on this forum. However, I request that you keep in mind that I do not think Bioshock was bad. I simple feel that it doesn't live up to the outrageously high honors that have been bestowed on it. It is a fun game...sometimes... and the "Would you kindly bit?" was very cool. However, I do not think it stands up to giants like Final Fantasy 6...or 3 or whatever... KOTOR, Balur's Gate, Mass Effect, Planescape Torment, Elderscrolls, Halo 4 (you know you wanted to cry at the end), Half-Life, ect. Soooo yeah just my thoughts.

Mild Spoilers Below:

You have to judge games based largely on what the climate was like when they came out, what they innovated, and how well they accomplished what they set out to achieve. The biggest twists tend to become trite when they become well known and people tend to forget how well they went over when they were first done. Whether this is "Rosebud was the sled", the solution to "The Purloined Letter", or "Would You Kindly" the point is that these were all strokes of genius when they were first conceived and told/lead up to perfectly. They set a standard for storytelling that other more ham-fisted attempts need to be judged negatively in comparison to.

What's more in an era of video game simplification, I think one of our problems is that we do not hold newer games accountable for their failings compared to other ones. Games that with lesser technology managed to achieve their intended results better than current works in the same area. A lot of classic games like say the original "Wasteland" or "Planescape: Torment" are so beloved because of how well they worked and did what they set out to do. Today you see a lot of highly rated games that don't deserve the rating because they fall far short of games that are in some cases decades older, in every respect except for the technology with which they were created.

The thing about Bioshock is that there was more to the whole twist than just the "Would You Kindly" thing. The entire game starts out seeming like an effort at bashing the political right wing and even more specifically the philsophy of objectivism. You go through a decaying attempt at a Utopia and are lead to believe that it was a failure of this philsophy and the work of a mad man who more or less plays the straightforward role of a villain. The twist is not just in regards to how you were commanded, but the fact that while Andrew Ryan was no saint, he was also right about pretty much everything, his plan worked perfectly, and he was arguably trying to do the right thing. All the problems you saw up until that point were orchastrated by the real bad guy who was manipulating you, and who had already brought down this society.

Bioshock's real "failing" was in that a lot of people don't get that the earlier messages in the game are effectively reversed with it's ultimate revelations, the message being the opposite of what your first lead to believe (as much as a message is present). Something which lead to a sequel that kind of diminished the original by trying to reinforce the faux message of the original into a sort of reality because it was more popular with a lot of the user base that didn't get it... but that's another story entirely.

At the end of the day, Bioshock DOES deserve the place where it currently sits, more so than many other games, and truthfully I think the series has been downhill since then. The second Bioshock was more or less a cheap cash in that didn't really "get it", and "Infinite" was pretty much a higher quality cash in that lacking anything profound to base itself in, decided to pull a "Lost" and revolve around ham handed time travel and interdimensional mechanics to give a sense of being deep while largely just rehashing the same debates we see every time a fairly high quality product (like Lost again) decides to use a similar cop out.

I think Bioshock will be remembered and referanced for it's "twists" especially among those who really got it, for as long as video games are still played.

 

[mParadox]

Bioshock was an amazing game.

It was also a buggy game. Customer support be damned. Took me a good day to finally sort it out.

Anyway, storywise, I loved it. Gameplay wise, it's alright. Bioshock 2 improves on the latter but falters on the former. ON THE OTHER HAND, the ending sequence of Bioshock 2 is much much better than... whatever the hell that ending was in Bioshock. I'm referring to the 'boss' battle obviously. >.>

Plus, audio logs. They're awesome. Really help set the mood. Especially the ones found in Arcadia, Farmer's Market and Fort Frolic.

 

[theultimateend]

Yes, played BioShock and BioShock 2 both are great, part one is better but 2 gets on par with part one when you add Minerva's Den. Just finished Infinite today and I loved it.

Yeah I loved both.

I can't take people seriously who say B2 is a crock of shit.

I know its an opinion but it feels like someone saying "Honestly...cinnamon rolls are fucking disgusting."

Very hard for me to grasp the thought.

 

[JemJar]

It's a dumbed-down ripoff of System Shock 2 with an admittedly unique setting and cool atmosphere. No, it wasn't as good as it's remembered.

Mainly this.

Bioshock is very similar to Fallout 3 in many ways. It's characters are negligible and mostly unimportant. The only "character" which matters is Wasteland itself, or in Bioshock's case - Rapture.

Sir, I do believe you struck the nail on the head, or close enough anyway. I personally believe that Bioshock is fondly remembered for one reason, atmosphere. Note, I did not say setting. I said, "atmosphere."

Atmosphere: A dominant intellectual or emotional environment or attitude
Setting:The context and environment in which a situation is set; the background.
These definitions hail from thefreedictionary.com

See the difference? I maintain that Bioshock's setting is ridiculous and silly. I maintain that the characters are flat and uninteresting. I maintain that the story and gameplay were both lacking. However, I think people love it so for the way the surrounding environment made them feel. Although the the setting details and explanations were not done well the art direction and "feel" of the game was.

Personally I love Fallout 3 and hate BioShock and while there is a parallel, the setting is used and works so differently.

Fallout 3 is all about the Wasteland, and justifiably so - for one thing, exploration is a key part of Fallout 3. And while the vast majority of the characters are pretty 1-dimensional, that really didn't trouble me. A lot of people in my real life can be described as 1-dimensional. But the Wasteland, for all it's broken bleak nature, is alive. Various little factions and gangs have formed and carved out their niche. They survive, some of them by being friendly, some by killing whatever they can to get what they need. You stumble out into the DC Wasteland and it's already there, the people are living their lives and, for the most part, they'll still be living similar lives when you leave. It's a stable system, to some extent at least.

To me, Rapture always felt like what it was, a pretty wrapper around what is quite a constrained and linear shooter. You can't explore it. You can't really see how it works as a city, as a setting. As far as I can work out, Jack's arrival in Rapture comes at this uncanny moment in the Rapture timeline where all the apparently normal people who originally lived there have gone insane but, and this is important, they haven't yet all killed each other, been killed by the turrets and Big Daddies or simply died of starvation. To me it never felt like it made any sense beyond a question of pure game mechanics : splicers are the standard alien/zombie enemies, Big Daddies are the boss fights, turrets are turrets because every shooter needs turrets.

 

[00slash00]

okay im going to be honest, i only read the first paragraph of the original post (nothing personal and it looks like it was well organized, but it was just a lot of text and i didnt really feel like reading all of it, especially since im not particularly passionate about the game)

i thought bioshock was fine. not great but certainly not bad. the hacking minigame was annoying and the combat started to feel pretty tedious after a while but the atmosphere was fantastic. i know people talk about how amazing the story was but i never really thought it was that great. again, it wasnt bad and i thought the twist was pretty cool, but it wasnt "ahhhh, mind explosion!" the way a lot of people make it out to be.

really i thought the atmosphere was great but everything else about it just felt kind of over hyped

 

[LiquidGrape]

It was a hell of a lot better than Infinite, that's for sure.