Was the original Bioshock as good as it is remembered?

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verdant monkai

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Yeah it was if you like that sort of thing (I do).
Its stuff on the PS1 and others of that gen you really have to ask was it as good as I remember?
 

Right Hook

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I played Bioshock about a month before Infinite came out, it still holds up IMO. In fact I enjoyed it more on this play-through, found a lot of new things, all in all I like it slightly more than Infinite.
 

Thyunda

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JemJar said:
Freaky Lou said:
It's a dumbed-down ripoff of System Shock 2 with an admittedly unique setting and cool atmosphere. No, it wasn't as good as it's remembered.
Mainly this.

CrazyCajun777 said:
Karoshi said:
Bioshock is very similar to Fallout 3 in many ways. It's characters are negligible and mostly unimportant. The only "character" which matters is Wasteland itself, or in Bioshock's case - Rapture.
Sir, I do believe you struck the nail on the head, or close enough anyway. I personally believe that Bioshock is fondly remembered for one reason, atmosphere. Note, I did not say setting. I said, "atmosphere."

Atmosphere: A dominant intellectual or emotional environment or attitude
Setting:The context and environment in which a situation is set; the background.
These definitions hail from thefreedictionary.com

See the difference? I maintain that Bioshock's setting is ridiculous and silly. I maintain that the characters are flat and uninteresting. I maintain that the story and gameplay were both lacking. However, I think people love it so for the way the surrounding environment made them feel. Although the the setting details and explanations were not done well the art direction and "feel" of the game was.
Personally I love Fallout 3 and hate BioShock and while there is a parallel, the setting is used and works so differently.

Fallout 3 is all about the Wasteland, and justifiably so - for one thing, exploration is a key part of Fallout 3. And while the vast majority of the characters are pretty 1-dimensional, that really didn't trouble me. A lot of people in my real life can be described as 1-dimensional. But the Wasteland, for all it's broken bleak nature, is alive. Various little factions and gangs have formed and carved out their niche. They survive, some of them by being friendly, some by killing whatever they can to get what they need. You stumble out into the DC Wasteland and it's already there, the people are living their lives and, for the most part, they'll still be living similar lives when you leave. It's a stable system, to some extent at least.

To me, Rapture always felt like what it was, a pretty wrapper around what is quite a constrained and linear shooter. You can't explore it. You can't really see how it works as a city, as a setting. As far as I can work out, Jack's arrival in Rapture comes at this uncanny moment in the Rapture timeline where all the apparently normal people who originally lived there have gone insane but, and this is important, they haven't yet all killed each other, been killed by the turrets and Big Daddies or simply died of starvation. To me it never felt like it made any sense beyond a question of pure game mechanics : splicers are the standard alien/zombie enemies, Big Daddies are the boss fights, turrets are turrets because every shooter needs turrets.
Big Daddies are slow and docile unless provoked. The turrets weren't programmed to open fire on Rapture citizens. There's your answer. They didn't starve because preserved food is still widely available. They don't kill each other because they can't harvest ADAM from one another. That's why they band together in packs to hunt Little Sisters, who of course are left-over from the initial attempts to salvage something from the unrest.

So really it could be anytime between immediately after the Fall, to the day before the sell-by date on a tin of beans.

EDIT: For the poster above, who won't even get the notification of quotification - Flat characters? The splicers, Ryan and Fontaine were excellent characters! Fontaine was just enough of a bastard to be a bad guy while still being affably charming. Ryan was enough of a dick to seem like a bad guy, but his heart was in the right place. Sort of. And the splicers! Dancing, singing, looking after pretend babies, these guys were the best!
 

daveman247

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Yes, if not better if you look at the majority of linear follow-the-waypoint shooters that have been released since then due to the success of a certain shooter.

The story was more about the unique world itself and its various stories than the characters.

The game was also about tactical choice. Yes you could run through the whole game with a wrench, but thats why its great. It lets you do that if you want. At the end of the day this is a shooter, you should be comparing this to other shooters - not RPG's (which have their own host of problems). And even now there are few shooters that have a story with as much depth as bioshock.

I wonder if you have ever played through bioshock 2? Quite a lot of that explains what the big daddies did and why.

- Big daddies were made to protect the little sisters (as you already know) from the crazy adam-addicted splicers who always want to kill them for the adam inside.

- Regular people didn't work because the bond wasn't strong enough (to perhaps die protecting the little sisters). The big daddies were made to be 100% committed to the protection of the girls.

- The little sisters are there really just for a gameplay reason. Somewhere to get a large amount of adam from (to power yourself up) and also to provide a kind-of moral choice system (most players will have problems killing little girls). I believe there was an audio log somewhere explaining why it had to be little girls - can't remember right now though.

- The motivation to start with in the game is survival - since you believe that you have crash landed in this place. The lack of questions/ motivations of your character to the orders of atlas are explained once you realise that your character has been brainwashed to recieve orders through a certain phrase. This is why he has been blindly following orders. It is then reveiled that you are an assassin sent to kill ryan.

- Jack (your player character) is a blank slate due to the belief of player-projection. Much like a host of other game protagonists. Irrational set to change this in bioshock infinite.

At the end of the day, of course there is going to be plotholes due to what the game tried to do with the story, i hope i explained a few things there :)
 

daveman247

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theultimateend said:
Strelok said:
Yes, played BioShock and BioShock 2 both are great, part one is better but 2 gets on par with part one when you add Minerva's Den. Just finished Infinite today and I loved it.
Yeah I loved both.

I can't take people seriously who say B2 is a crock of shit.

I know its an opinion but it feels like someone saying "Honestly...cinnamon rolls are fucking disgusting."

Very hard for me to grasp the thought.

Yup, don't get why so many say its crap either. Maybe not as good in the story department but certainly not a terrible game. Better combat/ upgrades and a MUCH better ending (That was quite sad) helped me like the game just as much as the first :)
 

daveman247

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CrazyCajun777 said:
mother of all snips
Cool, thats fine you think that :)

I wonder: Did you play it several months after the game came out? After you had heard all the hype for it? Maybe thats why. Too much hype.


I managed to miss all that and played the game totally not knowing what to expect (heard it was good, thats all i heard) after buying it on sale a month after it came out. Man was i surprised and opened my eyes on what a shooter can be :)
 

Vykrel

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i played it for the first time about two weeks ago. it is one of the best games i have ever played, and definitely holds up after 5+ years.

same thing happened when i played Half-Life 2 for the first time in like 2009. it is also one of the best games ive ever played.

sometimes, games arent as overrated as they seem.
 

Laughing Man

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Well I first bought Bioshock on the day of release, played about one third of the way through, to the point where you go to meet Atlas in the Sub pen. To be honest I got bored with it and just found the game to be a tad to hard, the splicers where to quick the ammo was to little and the weapons seemed to be to ineffective, so I dropped it.

I then spent the next two or three months reading various reviews and comments about what a truly awesome game it was, in between the numerous comments about how god awful the DRM was and the mouse issues the game suffered from.

Last week I reinstalled it, the plan. Well I had heard good things about Infinite and wanted to give Bioshock a run through to get a jist of the story, I had already heard that Bioshock 2 was pretty much a cash in and could be skipped from the story point of view.

Anyway this time I completed the game. It was okay, it certainly wasn't the oh my god the next Jesus in gaming has arrived that everyone was making it out to be when it first came out. The game itself could be completed using nothing more than the first plasmid type and the handgun, if you really wanted to go that way. The hacking sub game grew tedious very quickly and to be honest the enemy variety was pretty dull as well alongside a pretty rubbish take a picture to gain ability against the enemy sub game.

The FPS stuff was pretty good but the extra stuff was boring when done to excess. The Big daddy fights were pretty rubbish as well, two types of Big Daddy resulting in two different fight types. Both of which could be fought through using the Electric Plasmid to stun while unloading with the most powerful weapon in your loadout before switching back to stun the Big Daddy again.

So why did I buy Infinite? Well the story was pretty good for the most part, though it did take quite a down turn once you took out Ryan however the last level to the end of the game was SO underwhelming. A rubbish pretty poor even by usual escort mission standards escort mission with you dressed as Big Daddy but apparently gaining nothing from the experience apart from a change to your HUD and small defence buff. Then the final boss, not bad, not great just bleh and then the most underwhelming ending ever.

The good ending was, fine
The bad ending was, retarded

and everything pointed towards the Big Daddy conversion being one way yet you stop being a Big Daddy just before the end boss and it doesn't even get mentioned. I didn't even notice it until I watched a video replay later.

The result though is I just couldn't bring myself to play Infinite, the reason being that everything I;ve heard about Infinite I heard about Bioshock and now having completed Bioshock I can only conclude that Infinite is a pick it up in a year or so time when it's being sold cheap.

May pick up Bioshock 2 cheap instead.
 

Pebkio

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I'm playing through it again these days. It still lives up to being one of the best 7th gen FPS console games out there.

If you're a fan of modern shooters, then yeah, you probably think of Biohshock as a mediocre game; remembered only for its big twist. Because it plays like Half-Life 2 and Painkiller. You move like you're on a motorized skateboard, your guns float in front of you, you can carry eight of them and you don't have any regenerating shield/health. Of course fans of COD and MW will think it's mediocre, because you aren't realistically limited to two weapons, you aren't realistically forced walk at a normal pace, and you aren't forced to realistically take cover when under fire.

I happen to like unrealistic shooters more. 'Tis why I like Bioshock 2 as a game more than Biohshock Infinite as a game.

Also... I have no idea what you're talking about with the underhanded combat thing. Things got tougher, yes, but after the houdini splicers (last unique enemy), they started using creepy versions, like the statue people (who were just spider splicers). That's past the half-way point, how many new things do you expect them to keep introducing?

And it sounds like you just stuck to one plasmid (lightning) and one gun (pistol) throughout the entire game... of course you were having a hard time; probably wasn't very fun either. Remember, Biohshock isn't played like you would play BLOPS. There are a bunch of different combos each with their own situational usefulness. I used a shotgun/machine gun/Flamethrower and Bees/Blast/Fire combo for most of my playthrough. I would also research a butt-load so I'd have the invisibility power. The combat could always be varied if you weren't roleplaying as, y'know, a boring person (for instance, someone who only sticks to one gun and one plasmid).

---

As for the story... yeah, you weren't paying attention. Dr. Steinman (creepy skin doctor) was an awesome character... Andrew Ryan turned out to be less crazy and paranoid (and less than a true follower of the free market) than you originally thought... Dr. Tenenbaum had a great backstory. You'd know that as long as you were listening to the audio logs...

I'll grant you that a lot of the story was hidden away behind those collectables... but c'mon! You aren't playing BLOPs here, go exploring once and a while.

It sounds like you ran through the game all linear-like, not paying attention to any of the stories, and not working on the extra bits to make yourself more powerful... then, because of that, you thought it wasn't that great. Well, that's not the game's fault, it's yours.

---

Offtopic and just putting this out there: Halo 4 is not a giant. I'll grant you the other ones, but Halo 4 is not a classic nor is it a defining game of our generation. It's just a tacked on sequel to a good series that the original creators didn't want to make.
 

RedEyesBlackGamer

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MiracleOfSound said:
It's a deeply flawed game (the final third was a slog) but it has a very unique and special, magical feel to it which lets me overlook the flaws.

Also, OP ya might wanna put some paragraphs in that post. It's kinda hard to look at.
Actually, that killed the game for me. After the Ryan twist, the game just threw up on itself and the rest of the game was awful. It is like they really only had a game up until the reveal, then realized it was too short and added 2-3 hours of padding.
 

Amaror

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Bioshock's ,most rememberable scene is the "twist". It's pretty damn awesome how you can make a linear game like that without players recognicing the twist hours in advance and still have enough traces of it in the story to make people go: "Oh, really, Yeah that makes sense!".
I think Infinite is better though. I really really really like the scenes were you are just one person among many, were you can just watch and see the madness of the capped off society take it's place, where in Bioshock you just had to guess the things that happened through recorded tapes.
Plus they give you the happy fun times plasmid/vigor way earlier: Bees/Ravens!
 

DrunkenMonkey

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Therumancer said:
CrazyCajun777 said:
In Conclusion
Now I know this was pretty rough. I know some of you are cracking your knuckles as you prepare to tear me a new one on this forum. However, I request that you keep in mind that I do not think Bioshock was bad. I simple feel that it doesn't live up to the outrageously high honors that have been bestowed on it. It is a fun game...sometimes... and the "Would you kindly bit?" was very cool. However, I do not think it stands up to giants like Final Fantasy 6...or 3 or whatever... KOTOR, Balur's Gate, Mass Effect, Planescape Torment, Elderscrolls, Halo 4 (you know you wanted to cry at the end), Half-Life, ect. Soooo yeah just my thoughts.
Mild Spoilers Below:

You have to judge games based largely on what the climate was like when they came out, what they innovated, and how well they accomplished what they set out to achieve. The biggest twists tend to become trite when they become well known and people tend to forget how well they went over when they were first done. Whether this is "Rosebud was the sled", the solution to "The Purloined Letter", or "Would You Kindly" the point is that these were all strokes of genius when they were first conceived and told/lead up to perfectly. They set a standard for storytelling that other more ham-fisted attempts need to be judged negatively in comparison to.

What's more in an era of video game simplification, I think one of our problems is that we do not hold newer games accountable for their failings compared to other ones. Games that with lesser technology managed to achieve their intended results better than current works in the same area. A lot of classic games like say the original "Wasteland" or "Planescape: Torment" are so beloved because of how well they worked and did what they set out to do. Today you see a lot of highly rated games that don't deserve the rating because they fall far short of games that are in some cases decades older, in every respect except for the technology with which they were created.

The thing about Bioshock is that there was more to the whole twist than just the "Would You Kindly" thing. The entire game starts out seeming like an effort at bashing the political right wing and even more specifically the philsophy of objectivism. You go through a decaying attempt at a Utopia and are lead to believe that it was a failure of this philsophy and the work of a mad man who more or less plays the straightforward role of a villain. The twist is not just in regards to how you were commanded, but the fact that while Andrew Ryan was no saint, he was also right about pretty much everything, his plan worked perfectly, and he was arguably trying to do the right thing. All the problems you saw up until that point were orchastrated by the real bad guy who was manipulating you, and who had already brought down this society.

Bioshock's real "failing" was in that a lot of people don't get that the earlier messages in the game are effectively reversed with it's ultimate revelations, the message being the opposite of what your first lead to believe (as much as a message is present). Something which lead to a sequel that kind of diminished the original by trying to reinforce the faux message of the original into a sort of reality because it was more popular with a lot of the user base that didn't get it... but that's another story entirely.

At the end of the day, Bioshock DOES deserve the place where it currently sits, more so than many other games, and truthfully I think the series has been downhill since then. The second Bioshock was more or less a cheap cash in that didn't really "get it", and "Infinite" was pretty much a higher quality cash in that lacking anything profound to base itself in, decided to pull a "Lost" and revolve around ham handed time travel and interdimensional mechanics to give a sense of being deep while largely just rehashing the same debates we see every time a fairly high quality product (like Lost again) decides to use a similar cop out.

I think Bioshock will be remembered and referanced for it's "twists" especially among those who really got it, for as long as video games are still played.
I'll disagree with your second twist because Rapture crumbled do to the crushing capitalistic environment Ryan had set up. I mean come on, you had to pay money to use a bathroom stall. Which leads to the argument what else was there that you had to pay for. The other idea is although the "bad guy" did pour the fuel on the fire, there shouldn't have been reason for the fire to start out in the first place. Like Fontaine put it "somebody had to scrub the toilets." and I take it Rapture was not kind to its blue color counterparts i.e. the fisheries.

It's a bit weird how you dissected Bioshock enough to interpret the "second" twist, but didn't dissect infinite enough to get past the superficial parallel worlds twist, and see its commentary on how decisions are a fickle thing, that can change a man in profound ways. Anyway different strokes for different folks.
 

CrazyCajun777

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I clicked post instead of preview. sorry. =^(

here is a bear
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CrazyCajun777

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CrazyCajun777 said:
MiracleOfSound said:
Also, OP ya might wanna put some paragraphs in that post. It's kinda hard to look at.
First of all, thank you for the advice Miracle man. I will try to keep that in mind in future posts... I hope this one is easier to look upon

Second of all, thanks to everyone for their thoughts and opinions. I do not seem to stand alone in my opinions. However, I am obviously in the minority. Even those of you who disagree with me and commented I would like to thank. If nothing else you challenged my own opinions and reinforced or made me rethink my stance, which I do appreciate. I would also like to greatly thank each and everyone of you for not pointing out my horrific grammar.

On a more defensive note, some have you well meaning fellows have made several sum what unfair assumptions about how I played the game. Personally, I feel that everyone should be allowed to play a game however they wish. However, I accept that many of you disagree and that discussion would not be appropriate here. Thus, here is some clarification.

1.) I listened to every single audio file in the game. I even hit the interwebs to double check that I hadn't missed anything.
2.) I explored a great deal of the game. There were occasionally some cool things in there and I didn't want to miss anything.
3.) I did not play Bioshock 2 or read any supplemental material. I would argue that such a thing should not be needed to appreciate the game. Anything that needed to be explained should have been within the confines of the game without the aid of an outside source,
4.) I get that the game was shooting for ambitious themes, largely a very simple "extremism, in almost any form, is bad." However, no matter how grand the atmosphere or glorious the themes if the story fails than all that effort is for naught.
5.) I am always right. Or at least I think so. I mean it's kind of hard to operate under the opposite assumption.
6.) I did complete the entire game.
7.) I used all the guns... I find it surprising that this needed clarification. I preferred the crossbow if you care (you know you do).
8.) Yes, the game did end badly and basically blew it after the meeting with Ryan.
9.) I do not hate the game. I thought it had some fun moments. I simply feel that it doesn't live up to its reputation.

I would now like to talk about characters once again (don't worry this will be short...ish). The biggest problem with the character's is that they are fairly one demential. However, I will say that often they are well designed and thought out. The reason they fall short, at least in my eyes, is that they never interact with each other or you. Yes, Ryan does talk at you from time to time and Atlas and Tenenbaum tell you what to do, but that is the extent of it. The rest is audio files. The audio files are cool but are only useful as a bonus add on and not a good stand alone method of character development or storytelling. The thing is that the audio files tell you about the characters. You are painted a picture, but rarely anything else. Basically, Bioshock broke the rule of "Show, don't tell" with its characters. If you are unsure about what this rule means then I think Hemingway put it best,

"If a writer of prose knows enough of what he is writing about he may omit things that he knows and the reader, if the writer is writing truly enough, will have a feeling of those things as strongly as though the writer had stated them. The dignity of movement of an ice-berg is due to only one-eighth of it being above water."


p.s. Ok yeah Halo 4 isn't a giant, but I did feel a lot more attached to Cortana than anything in Bioshock. Basically, it is a little fresh on my mind so I mentioned it.
 

Snotnarok

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I recall having some good fun with it, but the thing that boggles my mind is how awful the endings were and how Mass Effect 3 gets flack and everyone seems to just ignore Bioshocks 'black and white' endings.
 

mooncalf

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I played it a long time after it was released. It was fun but *shrug* it wasn't a patch on SS2.
I should mention that the "splicers ballroom dancing and shotgun cartridge box" scene was the best moral choice I've ever seen in a videogame, it's just that otherwise so much of it lay in it's art direction than it's actual mechanics.
 

Gatx

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I haven't really played Bioshock but I've browsed the wiki quite a bit, and while that may contain more in depth information, I still disagree with your complaints about the setting. Sometimes you just have to accept things when the story wants you to for the sake of the story it's trying to tell. You don't want to be that guy who starts pointing out every little, irrelevant plot hole (Why didn't they just use eagles from the beginning? Why did the Empire not fix such a crucial flaw in the Death Star? Why doesn't Batman just use his wealth to fix Gotham as Bruce Wayne instead fighting street crime? etc).
 

Captain Billy

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I actually just finished the original BioShock today, and for my money, it's beyond brilliant. I'm not a rabid gamer (as that first sentence should have made pretty obvious), but I've found BioShock is part of a rare cabal of games that take full advantage of their medium. I enjoy Mass Effect, but that could have been a book series. The Uncharted series is always entertaining, but it could easily be a movie. But BioShock's status as a game is absolutely critical to its message, and in that, it is original, unique, and powerful. Nothing is perfect, and this game is certainly no exception, but for my money, it's not called one of the finest games ever made for nothing.
 

IrateDonnie

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Pohaturon said:
IrateDonnie said:
Pohaturon said:
Well, I'll let you in on a secret. I only got the original bioshock today. >.>


I've only gotten to the medical pavilion, but what i've seen so far definitely lives up to what's been said of the game. I'm already in love with the setting, and am reading the book "Rapture" by John Shirley in tandem with playing the game.
The book is awesome, it does a really good job of tying Bioshock & Bioshock 2 together.
I'm really enjoying it, just one question. I'm reading it in Hungarian, so I can't tell if they are the quotes, but are the quotes at the bottom of the loading screens from the book or not? They seem to address event in the book, and through rough translation I seem to have found them, but I can't be sure.
Yeah the book has a lot of the events from the quotes & audio diaries. It really adds to the back-story.