Watch Star Wars Episode VII's First Official Trailer Right Here

[Boba Frag]

*sighs* Sooo many people using the words 'broadsword' (a 17th century Scottish sword, not medieval one), and claymore (a large 16th century two handed sword designed with fighting pike formations in mind) in reference to that rather odd looking lightsaber.

Also, wow, the Escapist was slow off the mark with this post.

A bunch of other sites got there way faster, and I was quite saddened to see that.

Shame.

 

[Something Amyss]

*sighs* Sooo many people using the words 'broadsword' (a 17th century Scottish sword, not medieval one), and claymore (a large 16th century two handed sword designed with fighting pike formations in mind) in reference to that rather odd looking lightsaber.

Yeah, I hate it when people use common parlance to describe something in a way the general public will immediately recognise. I mean, what do they think language is? Some sort of living set of rules defined largely by culture? No! That's why we speak exactly as we did when those swords were in widespread use.

 

[elvor0]

I dunno why everyone cares so much about the lightsaber when the original trilogy had the bad evil space emperor floating around in a death star and he shot lighting. My suspense of disbelief is already suspended from that point one.

Plus it looks damn cool.

I think this has a lot of potential but I have no idea if it will be any good at this point.

Is your suspention of disbelief ruined by magic in harry potter, orcs, magic or Demi gods in LotR, or Captain America being a super soldier? I mean if you can't take lightning, how do you watch any movies with even the vaguest hint of fantastical elements?

Think of it with the best possible example. Most people will accept that Superman can fly, shoot lasers and hurl cars about. Most people will not accept that he can disguise himself as Clark Kent just by putting glasses on. The glasses are the cross guard. The crossguard is impractical and nonsensical within the universe, not our universe, the one the characters inhabit.

 

[Mahorfeus]

Think of it with the best possible example. Most people will accept that Superman can fly, shoot lasers and hurl cars about. Most people will not accept that he can disguise himself as Clark Kent just by putting glasses on. The glasses are the cross guard. The crossguard is impractical and nonsensical within the universe, not our universe, the one the characters inhabit.

I think it's just the opposite, honestly. The crossguard makes perfect sense within the context of the Star Wars universe. Asides from there being lightsaber-resistant materials the blade could be made of, or the fact that lightsabers with guards have existed before (all of that being EU granted), adding two more potential points of leverage on a weapon that is already more or less weightless seems like a good deal to me. Just like every other strange weapon in the sage, the idea that one might slice their own hands off wielding the damn thing can just be hand-waved, because there is no doubt some nuanced fighting style that it requires. In which case, the point of contention becomes more of an argument for how skilled the weapon's wielder must be.

I don't think the "Superman's glasses" analogy really fits.

 

[Sniper Team 4]

Yay! Page six of the comments! Surely my opinion will matter here!

Anyway, I'm up in the air about it. It looks like it has promise, but there were a few things that were red flags for me. Let's start with the good:

X-wings are always good! Rebel pilot in X-wing flipping a switch? Even better! Why? Because it gives me hope that we shall be returning to the glory of Yavin and Endor, when average Joes were shown in combat and were actually helpful in the fights. It wasn't just the star cast.

Stormtroopers in the drop ship look actually terrifying. I would be very worried if these guys were coming at me. They are much more threatening it seems. And surprisingly, I like the slight redesign on their helmets.

Sound effects of both roaring X-wings and TIE Fighters, as well as the blasters, are spot on.


Now for the "I'm not on board yet."

Stormtrooper with helmet off in the first shot of the trailer? No. Stormtroopers do not take off their helmets. Okay, I get that he's probably going to be a good guy--or might already be one and is just in disguise--but just no! Not the way to start.

Don't like the camera trick with the Falcon, following it through the loop like that. It screamed "Look at me! I'M COOL!" in a J.J. Abrams way. It did not feel like Star Wars. Does anyone understand what I mean? Please say yes.

No on the lightsaber. No no no. I hate it when someone tries to get creative with the design. Dooku's I could accept because it didn't change the blade. Maul's made sense because it was just two-in-one. But this? What's next? Lightaxes? Lightspears? Lighttonfas--oh, wait. We did that already.
I'm sorry, but adding a cross guard to a lightsaber just takes away from the weapon to me. It takes away the elegance and precision that the weapon implies.

 

[Falling_v1legacy]

@Mahorfeus

The thing is... it's not a crossguard. It's like having two mini-chainsaws for a hilt. If they have light saber resistant material, then it would make way more sense to make a proper cross-guard. I would buy that within the internal rules of the Star Wars universe... I would also like to see creative uses of that material- regular infantry being given anti-lightsaber batons, coating armour with it, etc. Natural consequences of a clearly potent metal.

But having two chainsaws for handles, increases the danger for the user and not just for wielder's hands. That sword must remain a full foot away from the body of the wielder at all times. If they ever lock blades, and their opponent shoves the broadsword back, the momentum must be stopped a foot away from his body/ head or risk skewering by his own blade. Including both sides of the mini-chainsaws, the sword has created a near two feet danger zone closest to the defender's body... not their opponent. Yes a lightsabre is inherently dangerous and yet Jedi wield it. I can buy that. But putting blades perpendicular to that one blade has a danger multiplying effect for the sword wielder only. There is blade pointing straight at wielder's chest! Maybe the Sith is wonderously skilled with it, but his movements are limited and he has increased the multiplied the likelihood of becoming impaled upon his own sword 'crossguard.' It just doesn't make sense within the rules already established within the Star Wars universe.

 

[killerbee256]

I'm excited. Now I have over a year till it makes sense, that is the only really down part. AS far as the X-wings flying over the water ... sorry made me squeal! Like a little boy getting a piece of candy that is sitting on a piece of pie being held up by a triple layer of chocolate cake.

It looked like a cut scene from a hypothetical rogue squadron 6 game.

 

[spartandude]

Don't like the camera trick with the Falcon, following it through the loop like that. It screamed "Look at me! I'M COOL!" in a J.J. Abrams way. It did not feel like Star Wars. Does anyone understand what I mean? Please say yes.

Oh thank god i wasnt the only one who thought this. The camera work just doenst seem Star Wars like, then again changes here and there arnt always bad and could be stuck in my ways. Also the shaky camera with the Storm Troopers was a bit jarring to me.

 

[momijirabbit]

My god, a cross-guard lightsaber is Stupid and dangerous to the user, who happens to have magic psychic force powers, Star Wars is ruined.

 

[Darth Rosenberg]

Most points on The Crossguard Controversy have been made, it seems, but---

And I don't see how you could possibly slice your own wrists with it. My wrists almost certainly don't bend so far as to allow that, unless you're spinning it around your hand, like with normal sabers. If his fighting style is specifically tailored to the sword, I see no problem. / Also, I'm no expert on swordplay but I think the idea is to NOT swing your sword in such a way that the cross guard constantly bangs against your wrist...

If you're wearing gloves or gauntlets, and using a sword with both hands, yeah, your hands, wrists, and sometimes forearms can all come in contact with the crossguard. It can even help distribute weight, in that contact with the base of the crossguard supports the grip. It depends what you're trying to do at any given moment, but the closer your hand to the crossguard, the closer your grip is to the point of balance - ergo your control [for certain techniques] improves. Also, it can aid in being a subtle cue for edge alignment.

You can also - oo er missus - 'finger the cross', so your forefinger loops over the 'true' quillon (the front facing point of the crossguard), which again changes the angle and balance (quite drastically). And then there are guard positions which can have your thumb flat against either the bottom of the blade itself, or simply nestled flat just under or around the lie of the crossguard (parallel to the grip). All of these things bring your fingers and hand in various amounts of contact with it.

...that said, all of that pertains to European longsword, not a lightsaber. Are lightsaber's weighted, btw? They're supposed to be, to a degree?

I personally think the design is goofy - but actually quite cool. I immediately saw what's effectively a religious Cross, made out of evil lookin' red energy... which juxtaposed great with the snowy forest. The trailer's been weirdly processed it seems, so even with good headphones that's probably not quite how the saber sounds. Even so, if they keep the less focused (literally, if I remember) saber and sound effects, then I like it. That Dark Jedi had a not so refined air about him... which could makes that weapon perfect for his character.

 

[Miles Maldonado]

I got some major Dam Busters vibes from the low-altitude X-Wings. Though I feel if they are going full Dam Busters, they should've gone with the Y-Wing seeing as that's the bomber.

 

[Pinky's Brain]

A cortosis/mandalorian iron/Phrik crossguard makes sense for a lightsaber designed for lightsaber duels, emitters not so much. You'd only ever use the crossguard as a weapon with a mordhau ... that seems like a phenomenally bad idea.

 

[killerbee256]

Can anyone enlighten me as to exactly which version of the X-Wing those fighters are, as the wing span and engine intakes aren't in line the T-65 model we see in the original trilogy.

They're new, the old EU is GONE as far as this movie is concerned. Those x wings are something new that Abram's people came up with.

I got some major Dam Busters vibes from the low-altitude X-Wings. Though I feel if they are going full Dam Busters, they should've gone with the Y-Wing seeing as that's the bomber.

It makes think of the Corella level from the old Rouge squadron n64 game.

 

[elvor0]

Think of it with the best possible example. Most people will accept that Superman can fly, shoot lasers and hurl cars about. Most people will not accept that he can disguise himself as Clark Kent just by putting glasses on. The glasses are the cross guard. The crossguard is impractical and nonsensical within the universe, not our universe, the one the characters inhabit.

I think it's just the opposite, honestly. The crossguard makes perfect sense within the context of the Star Wars universe. Asides from there being lightsaber-resistant materials the blade could be made of, or the fact that lightsabers with guards have existed before (all of that being EU granted), adding two more potential points of leverage on a weapon that is already more or less weightless seems like a good deal to me. Just like every other strange weapon in the sage, the idea that one might slice their own hands off wielding the damn thing can just be hand-waved, because there is no doubt some nuanced fighting style that it requires. In which case, the point of contention becomes more of an argument for how skilled the weapon's wielder must be.

I don't think the "Superman's glasses" analogy really fits.

Well I was more using it to point out that complaining about magic in a fantasy film ruining your suspention of disbelief is silly. It wasn't supposed to be an exact analogy, just an easy example anyone can relate to.

You're right, a cross guard does make perfect sense in the SW universe. Just this isn't a guard, it's two lasers, the equivilent of having a cross guard made of razor sharp daggers in the real world. And as someone else as pointed out in this thread, in the event that an enemys saber slid down yours, it would just slice through the emitter anyway, rendering it useless as defence. And if the emitters /are/ made out of lightsaber resiliant material(LRM), that makes it even more badly designed.

Just because lightsabers have existed with laser "guards" before, that doesn't excuse this, nor does it ommit the fact that I and others found that one silly too. If it was a guard made out of LRM, that would be fine, and noone would bat an eyelid, rather than have everyone taking the piss like they are now.

It works with the analogy of Supermans glasses by being non sensical and having no in universe justification for working. Issues are raised by having your own guard being a massive hazard in the event that you twisted your hand in the wrong direction or locking blades you suddenly have to worry about your own "guard" stabbing you in the gut. Heck even turning it on with the hilt in the wrong direction would slice your hand off.

Most points on The Crossguard Controversy have been made, it seems, but---

And I don't see how you could possibly slice your own wrists with it. My wrists almost certainly don't bend so far as to allow that, unless you're spinning it around your hand, like with normal sabers. If his fighting style is specifically tailored to the sword, I see no problem. / Also, I'm no expert on swordplay but I think the idea is to NOT swing your sword in such a way that the cross guard constantly bangs against your wrist...

-snip-

...that said, all of that pertains to European longsword, not a lightsaber. Are lightsaber's weighted, btw? They're supposed to be, to a degree?

Wiki states that all of the weight is contained within the 1kg hilt, part of the reason they're so difficult to wield:

"one of them being that all of the weight a lightsaber had was in its hilt, and the gyroscopic effect caused resistance to changes in motion, or built up momentum so quickly than an untrained wielder could lose control of the weapon." Which would tie more in with the prequal trilogies where they're all flipping out ninja gaiden style.

However the original trilogy shows fighting with lightsabers as being more akin to Japanese bushido(not that I'll pretend to know much about that, or if even that's the right word to describe it), and Lucas envisioned them as requiring 2 hands to wield effectively due to their raw power and heft of the plasma forces and weighing 40-50 pounds/22kg. So I guess it's a mixture of the weight of a greatsword, bishido and what ever techniques go into wielding such a weapon. As Luke further masters the force he's able to wield it with one hand.

There's a bit more in this video where they go into it:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1rtnaf_star-wars-the-birth-of-the-lightsaber-hd-documentary-featurette-entertainment-movies-science-fiction_shortfilms

 

[Dark Knifer]

I dunno why everyone cares so much about the lightsaber when the original trilogy had the bad evil space emperor floating around in a death star and he shot lighting. My suspense of disbelief is already suspended from that point one.

Plus it looks damn cool.

I think this has a lot of potential but I have no idea if it will be any good at this point.

Is your suspention of disbelief ruined by magic in harry potter, orcs, magic or Demi gods in LotR, or Captain America being a super soldier? I mean if you can't take lightning, how do you watch any movies with even the vaguest hint of fantastical elements?

Think of it with the best possible example. Most people will accept that Superman can fly, shoot lasers and hurl cars about. Most people will not accept that he can disguise himself as Clark Kent just by putting glasses on. The glasses are the cross guard. The crossguard is impractical and nonsensical within the universe, not our universe, the one the characters inhabit.

I think I worded that wrong. Things like that don't bother me and I think sith are obnoxious and confident enough to have a weapon that makes it more difficult to them. Hell in expanded universe we have darth sion the lord of pain who gets stronger the more he's injured.

I don't think that analogy works because we'll see that lightsaber in the think of action not like clark kent where we only see him when there is no action and action distracts from things like that. Take the new avengers trailer, why did tony stark build a giant robot to fit his iron man suit into to fight hulk instead of some kind of gun that subdues him in one hit? Because it looks cool.

 

[Olas]

You know, when I first saw the lightsaber w/crossguard, I groaned a bit too, but thinking about it it's actually quite reasonable for the same reasons as real swords having had crossguards. . .

Except you can actually touch a real crossguard without cutting off parts of your body. That's what everyone's gripe is with the design: Angle your wrist slightly wrong, and you're missing an arm.

Sightly wrong? You'd have to bend your wrist over 90 degrees before the crossguard would be in reach of your actual arm. Besides, these are masters of dueling who can deflect lasers beams in mid air, I think they can handle themselves. Frankly a crossguard makes a lot of sense for a light saber, even more than for a regular sword because light sabers can cut through everything so easily, including the hilts of other light sabers. And then you don't have to worry about this:

My issue with the crossguard is that it doesn't seem like it would work if the hilt is still exposed at the place where it meets the blade, it seems like it would just get chopped right off. I'm not sure what the answer is, but I don't see that working much better than a regular light saber.

 

[Falling_v1legacy]

You'd have to bend your wrist over 90 degrees before the crossguard would be in reach of your actual arm.

Not necessarily. Holding a sword without bending your wrist and the mini-chainsaw are buzzing parallel to your arm. The longer the so-called guard and the farther up the handle you hold (a typical handhold), the less of an angle you would need for the buzzing blade intersects with your arm.

 

[themyrmidon]

It's good to see JJ curb some of his worst tendencies (at least from what the teaser showed us). But there's lots of other problems with this that keep me from getting excited.

- Opening shot looks like something out of a fan film.
- Stupid droid design.
- Shaky cam.
- X-wings in close-to-land aerial combat. (that's what speeders are for)
- The lightsword.
- A cargo ship making aerial maneuvers close to a planet's surface.

Other than that, it all looks good. I like the mix of practical effects and CGI, especially for it doesn't look as clean as the prequels. It also looks like it might be more subtle with the whole "Force Awakens" than I expected, which is good.

 

[Something Amyss]

And then you don't have to worry about this:

Except Luke's saber blade was out in a direction where a cross guard wouldn't have helped, so that's not correct.

Spoiler

What about that scene suggests Luke would still have a hand if he had a cross guard?

Because it looks cool.

Honestly, though, that's the thing. I think this looks goofy as fuck. Even your Iron Man example is borderline for me. I'm fine with the "rule of cool," and if this thing looked cool to me, I wouldn't care one bit. But I see those glow sticks pop out, and I'm laughing my ass off.

Also, people are defending these as realistic, practical or useful.

Japanese bushido

To answer your parenthetical, it's the wrong term. Bushido is a code people live by. There are several sword arts in Japan, often blanketed under the term "kenjutsu." While there are elements similar to Japanese martial arts, these sword fights are predominantly Hollywood.

EDIT: I'd also note that's probably a good thing when the lightcrossguard comes out. From the looks of that thing, several strokes I learned would damage my own limbs or head. A Jedi would almost certainly have to develop a new swordfighting technique for a lightsaber in general, but especially here.

I immediately saw what's effectively a religious Cross, made out of evil lookin' red energy...

So Disney's saying Christianity are the bad guys?

I don't know, if we're going down the pareidolia route, it doesn't seem a stretch to go a little further.

 

[Dark Knifer]

Because it looks cool.

Honestly, though, that's the thing. I think this looks goofy as fuck. Even your Iron Man example is borderline for me. I'm fine with the "rule of cool," and if this thing looked cool to me, I wouldn't care one bit. But I see those glow sticks pop out, and I'm laughing my ass off.

Also, people are defending these as realistic, practical or useful.

I agree. Rule of cool isn't an absolute defense at all since "cool" is pretty subjective. My iron man example was one where I thought it was dumb but I really like this just because I like the aesthetic of it.

Rule of cool isn't really a rule. I guess we'll see the consensus about it when the movie comes it. The practicality arguments I don't get because star wars was never that realistic to begin with and I don't think it breaks its internal consistencies that much considering the double saber is canon.