We need different nouns for gender and sex

[False Messiah]

After reading a lengthy thread about "transgender and locker rooms" I started thinking about how most discussions around the difference sex and gender usually fall into two sides not understanding each other.

And I never have seen this problem when reading a discussion in Dutch because we don't have different words for gender and sex. I think this makes it easier to read the context and see if male means the male sex, or the male gender. This piece of context sometimes gets lost in English, inviting miscommunication between parties.

I propose we start using new words for either gender or sex. So when talking about someones sex it's male or female, and when talking about gender it's gmale, fegmale or gnone. The floor is open for ideas/other nouns, preferably ones that are actually pronounceable..

What do you think?

 

[Daystar Clarion]

No.

Just no.

English is complicated enough without adding arbitrary pronouns to the mix, the issue isn't one with words, it's one with people's attitudes.

No amount of fiddling with the language is going to change that.

 

[Silentpony_v1legacy]

No, I think that's a very silly idea. We have male, female and a term for the inbetweens as transgender. And if we need further clarifications we can use masculine man, feminine man, masculine female, masculine male. (EDIT: or masculine/feminine trans. Can't leave that out)
We don't need to pull a Facebook and have 50+ pronouns. I don't want to be in a party and have everyone's first question be 'what pronouns do you use?' I can't imagine people would be able to take anything seriously ever again.

 

[Thaluikhain]

English is complicated enough without adding arbitrary pronouns to the mix, the issue isn't one with words, it's one with people's attitudes.

No amount of fiddling with the language is going to change that.

Exactly. Dodging the problem doesn't do anything to fix it.

Now, sometimes it still can be worthwhile, but this isn't remotely feasible. The sort of people who are likely to be the problem won't care about new pronouns.

 

[Colour Scientist]

gmale

Isn't that Google's intellectual property? XD

 

[False Messiah]

No.

Just no.

English is complicated enough without adding arbitrary pronouns to the mix, the issue isn't one with words, it's one with people's attitudes.

No amount of fiddling with the language is going to change that.

I said nothing about pronouns

No, I think that's a very silly idea. We have male, female and a term for the inbetweens as transgender. And if we need further clarifications we can use masculine man, feminine man, masculine female, masculine male. (EDIT: or masculine/feminine trans. Can't leave that out)
We don't need to pull a Facebook and have 50+ pronouns. I don't want to be in a party and have everyone's first question be 'what pronouns do you use?' I can't imagine people would be able to take anything seriously ever again.

I'm not saying that we need clarification between the genders, but between gender and sex. Because at the moment the sentences "this trans-male is male" and "this trans-male is female" can be both correct for the same person I propose we use different nouns so the reader can see that you're talking about gender, and not sex.

gmale

Isn't that Google's intellectual property? XD

I.. I did not think that on through.

 

[The Lunatic]

... We already do.

Male and Female describe the sex of a thing. With humans they're also an "Intersex" category to describe a small minority of which are usually due to a genetic abnormality.

Sex is usually categorised by chromosomes, but, other traits such as anatomy and such can play a factor, but, it's mostly chromosomes.

Man and Woman are gender pronouns which describe the way a person identifies, and has no physical requirement, but, is usually affected by physical characteristics.

People just have different definitions of gender. Some people choose to identity in ways which don't match people's expectations of "Man" or "Woman". However, ultimately, how you perceive yourself is more important than trying to change what other people think. And people are entitled to an opinion too.

 

[False Messiah]

... We already do.

Male and Female describe the sex of a thing. With humans they're also an "Intersex" category to describe a small minority of which are usually due to a genetic abnormality.

I didn't know that the distinction lies there. Why do we call transgendered people trans-male instead of trans-man?

 

[The Lunatic]

I didn't know that the distinction lies there. Why do we call transgendered people trans-male instead of trans-man?

People get confused a lot. That, or just don't know.

It's more of a "Technical definition".

It's not very often people need to know the difference. So, a lot of people just don't.

I guess some people also want to go against that status quo and seem to think that chromosomes don't define or heavily influence the sex of a thing and as such believe it is possible to change one's sex, and therefore identify as "Transsexual".

 

[False Messiah]

Why do we call transgendered people trans-male instead of trans-man?

No real good reason over why we call people trans man instead of trans male.

I guess some people also want to go against that status quo and seem to think that chromosomes don't define or heavily influence the sex of a thing

Which they don't.

and as such believe it is possible to change one's sex, and therefore identify as "Transsexual".

No, they identify as "transsexual woman" or "transsexual man," not "transsexual". There's an importatant distinction.

But the part that you identify to is gender, not sex. So it should be Transgender woman, transgender man. Right? :/

 

[Gordon_4_v1legacy]

Hey man, I had enough drama figuring out the difference when I was learning French, I don't need it in the ever evolving miasma that is English.

 

[Evonisia]

Unless we come up with some mad nonsense like having it be:
Male - Person who has the chromosomes XY
Female - Person who has the chromosomes XX

AND

Man - Identifies by the gender typically belonging to people with the chromosomes XY.
Woman - Identifies by the gender typically belonging to people with the chromosomes XX.

And even then it's a bit of a mess, and frankly it would still be made complicated as people don't care for the actual nitty gritty details of words (I know I don't usually), and would still use Man/Male and Woman/Female interchangeably.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

No thank you, enough about butchering language to accomodate the people who don't know how to use a dictionary.

 

[Relish in Chaos]

Well, no. For the same reason that most people don't use the LGBTQQIP2SAA acronym: it confuses the fuck out of people and that's one thing you don't want to do if you're trying to get ignorant people on your side.

Whether it makes sense or not, for the majority of the general population, people basically see gender and sex as one and the same. Predominantly because, for the majority of the general population, gender and sex is[/] one and the same; as in, their gender identity matches with their biological sex.

Now, I haven't read the thread about transgender people and locker rooms, but I presume the problem is less what label you use and more people's attitudes towards certain minority groups.

 

[Padwolf]

Oh god no, we don't need more confusion. There's enough to wade through as it is. It doesn't help when you have those people on tumblr describing themselves as "Otherkin" and other such nonsense. No, it's best to work out some other route. Confusing people is just going to lead to anger. And anger leads to the dark side.

 

[IamLEAM1983]

I... fail to see how this is an issue. If you're speaking of a transgender male-to-female, use "she". If you're referring to a trans female-to-male, use "he".

It's that simple. I understand that gender fluidity is all the rage, right now, what with the oodles of Tumblr blogs going "Today's gender is INSERT NON-GENDERED STUFF HERE" but honestly, political correctness has its limits. Even in the case of a hermaphrodite, I'd go with the most aesthetically noticeable gender and define my used pronoun based on that. I've always ignored stuff like "shi" or "hir", because I've never heard of them being picked up by an official ruling body.

Unless Merriam-Webster starts telling me that it's expected and correct of me to make up pronouns on the spot on the faintest suspicion that I might offend someone, I won't do it. It's that simple.

Besides, why do certain militant trans people even bother? They're transitioning to another gender, not trying to exist in some undefined morass where the notion of gender requires a postgrad Philosophy class to elucidate!

 

[happyninja42]

I agree! However I find your terms very pedestrian and mundane! I suggest we use the following terms!:

Fluffy Bottom Man, Concrete Cooch, Stealth Pole Man, Hidden Pit, and Douglas.

Feel free to designate these to whichever non specified gender you wish and have fun!