"We put gameplay above all else"

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Ilyak1986

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Dec 16, 2010
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So...now that Starcraft 2 Heart of the Swarm is coming out, I was thinking...IMO, I'm not the only one that notices that compared to SC and BW, Starcraft 2's story is really...lacking (despite not being all that *bad* when compared to most video games). And when pressed on things, it seems that the answer Blizz falls back on nowadays is "we put gameplay above all else".

However, when blizzard was first starting out, it seems that their stories were much better than they are now, because back then, as a small studio, they couldn't create the best graphics (though SC1's graphics aged much better than most), they didn't have access to the best composers (yet you can probably remember some memorable SC1 melodies, like the original terran themes), and the only thing they could fall back upon was A) good game design (which didn't change at all) and B) telling a good story.

And IMO, the Starcraft characters (at least in their original forms) stand out to me much better than so many others from so many videogames I've played.

But this isn't a Starcraft thread...what I'm wondering is this:

IMO one of the reasons that people don't take games seriously is that the stories simply lack compared to those in other media. After all, the point of a movie, or a TV series, or a novel (or five of them like George RR Martin has coming out...though by my own admission I couldn't get past page 269 of Game of Thrones because it was so much low fantasy junk and I wanted people to throw fireballs) is that since there is no interaction with the audience, they must tell a good story (or at least have a ton of epic explosions so the audience doesn't notice the lack thereof...here's looking at you, Michael Bay).

IMO games generally fail to do this. In RPGs, it's always "the hero's journey". Big Bad ransacks the Doomed Hometown, then The Hero goes through a journey which may include a Heroic BSOD, confront the villain in The Most Definitely Final Dungeon, and have an epic climactic fight which may include him performing a Heroic Sacrifice via Heroic RROD.

Just about every shooter has some sort of plot which can only be classified as lacking compared to stories in other media at best (Halo) or an excuse plot at worst (Gears of War...lulz aliens are invading earth, shoot 'em!).

Flying games? Soap Opera in the skies with the main character being an AFGNCAAP.

And so many Japanese games are so many variations of a theme of interdimensional demons/aliens/fantastic creatures of other sorts, wacky high school students, and other teen-saves-X (X being a setting) bad anime ripoffs.

I'm wondering...what exactly is keeping videogame studios from A) first having a writer WRITE a damn good story, and then build a game around that? I mean so much of the stuff in bestselling novels serves merely to create an atmosphere through words, describe characters, or otherwise do something to establish that the characters aren't just having a dialog on a white canvas.

This is where all of the graphics and music and everything else comes in. I mean if writers could have the power of visuals and music that video games do, wouldn't they be able to create even better experiences, by leaps and bounds?

I mean Japanese visual novel games are more or less text-based adventures, but what if you could replace so much of those walls of texts with more interaction?

Now, I realize that at some point, the player has to actually play the game, but why exactly must an RPG have massive amounts of "take 2 steps, fight random giant level 5 onyx"? Why must Ace Combat games throw endless amounts of aerial mooks at you, and so many games just create what I more or less dub "empty gameplay"? What exactly is such a mortal sin about having all of the gameplay have meaning towards a well-developed plot, rather than "oh hey we want to create this cool gameplay system and have these cool missions. WHY are the missions happening? Oh...right...quick, someone slap together an excuse plot."

Wouldn't games be far more enriching experiences if the gameplay revolved around the story, not vice versa?

I mean shouldn't this be the case especially with multiplayer games? I mean someone takes 20 hours to play through a campaign, then spends hundreds of hours just playing the core game with others online. What exactly is keeping game developers from creating an out-of-this-world story for the 30 hours or so we spend playing the game for its story, and leave the rest of the multiplayer stuff for actually continuing to deliver on the gameplay?

Long story short, for all of the TL;DRers:

Write good story. Weave gameplay around the fantastic plot. Don't slap story as an excuse for why the game is happening.

LOL one of my captcha words was literature :p
 

IBlackKiteI

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Mar 12, 2010
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Gameplay before story.

Games should be made to be played, not 'experienced' or whatever you wanna call it.
Whilst a great story is nice and all they're both difficult to pull of in a limitations of a game (shooters especially) and can be detrimental to the game itself in some ways. I think it would be best if developers actually focused on stories less and instead tried to make the game as entertaining as possible without big chunks of crappy narrative and backstory coming at you all the time and interrupting or interfering with the gameplay, because the majority of stories in games suck anyway, sometimes to the point where it might even be best to not have them and instead just lead the player down a hallway to a bunch of bad dudes who need to be killed because they're apparently bad.
Whatever, I just miss when games tried to be fun beyond their multiplayers.
Its all 'deep moral choices!' and 'immersion!' and such now, and I probably wouldn't be as irriated by these kinds of things if they weren't done so poorly.

As for writing a story and wrapping it around the game, I'm not sure what you mean by that. Don't games do this anyway?

However there are of course quite a few exceptions, but games with good stories usually have this at the expense at having worse gameplay.
Then of course, potentially countering everything I've just stated, who gets to decide what a good story or good game is anyway?


Anyway, a game with a good story is inferior to a game with good gameplay, in my opinion.
Because ya know, they're games.
 

Ilyak1986

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Dec 16, 2010
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WHo's talking about losing? All I'm saying is that currently, video game stories suck and suck hard. You can have the easiest game in the world, just tell me a good story -_-...
 

Shio

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Jun 4, 2011
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Ilyak1986 said:
WHo's talking about losing? All I'm saying is that currently, video game stories suck and suck hard. You can have the easiest game in the world, just tell me a good story -_-...
Nice generalization.

It sounds like you don't acknowledge story driven games simply because they aren't popular. Have you played the various Winter Voices games that are constantly coming out, for example? If not, why? Are you not looking?

Your time would be better spend looking for these games that do exist despite your assertions, than complaining in the forum.
 

FieryTrainwreck

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Apr 16, 2010
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I know it's tiresome to talk about Planescape every time someone brings up storytelling in videogames, but that game really is the antithesis of everything we've come to expect from major next-gen releases. Unique and alien setting, characters, and plot, all totally unlike anything you see in today's "triple A" RPGs. It's sad.

Edit: Winter Voices isn't well-written. It's painful amateur poetry - overwrought, flowery, and repetitive.
 

DazZ.

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Jun 4, 2009
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Ilyak1986 said:
WHo's talking about losing? All I'm saying is that currently, video game stories suck and suck hard. You can have the easiest game in the world, just tell me a good story -_-...
I think what you're looking for is a book.
 

KaiusCormere

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Mar 19, 2009
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Games with good stories and good gameplay exist. Why compromise? If you're spending tens of millions of dollars making a game, why make part of that game shitty?
 

Elosandi

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May 5, 2011
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Because unless the gameplay is good, it detracts from the story. When you reach a point where the interaction harms the effect you intend to create, then you might as well just make a movie.


Story with poor gameplay is better left to different media, however, amazing gameplay without story isn't an effect that can be topped through the use of any other medium.


Ideally a game should have both, but when it comes to one or the other, gameplay is by far the more important aspect.
 

Bat Vader

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Mar 11, 2009
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Ilyak1986 said:
WHo's talking about losing? All I'm saying is that currently, video game stories suck and suck hard. You can have the easiest game in the world, just tell me a good story -_-...
Both Knights of The Old Republic and The Witcher seem to have pretty good stories. Bioshock and Amnesia: The Dark Descent are two more games that have great stories as well. These are just my opinions though.
 

Frotality

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Oct 25, 2010
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dont fret OP, gaming is just in a bit of a rut right now; expanding markets, adjusting to the economy, all that jazz. sure, game stories suck right now, but movies, literature, and comics all went through similarly trying times. the only reason those mediums are recognized as art socially is because theyre older; really, thats it. they've had much more time to develop their particular brand of storytelling, and the public conscience will always look back on anything that existed before the 50s as "time-honored". on the bright side (i very rarely say that, FYI), gaming has developed far faster than any other medium, going from amorphous white pixels on a black screen to child-corrupting realism in roughly the time it took film to get sound (a transition full of crappy movies as the industry adapted, some scholars and old people say). which means, gaming should come to terms with its narrative identity and story-telling mechanics much faster; no more than a decade i would think. movies started as no more than a childish novelty to most people as well.

gaming will be recognized as art probably around the same time we stop thinking of gameplay and story as separate entities; a good game shouldnt be mediocre gameplay with a good script, it should use gameplay to tell the story; in the same way that a good script and a crappy director does not make a good movie.

and i thought starcraft2 had quite an entertaining campaign...an awkward, cheesy story, but it was properly epic and presented well enough for the game to carry it; still not helping the evolution of the industry, but hardly every game can be expected to do that.
 

The Wykydtron

"Emotions are very important!"
Sep 23, 2010
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I usually put story before gameplay as long as the gameplay isn't fucking unplayable.

The gameplay just has to fit what the game needs it to do, i mean the Ace Attorney games (not including Edgeworth's Investigations of course) only has about 4 buttons yet i consider it to have pretty damn awesome gameplay.
 

linwolf

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Jan 9, 2010
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For me I am fine with
good gameplay good story
good gameplay no story
bad gameplay good story

But if the story is bad I looses interest in the game.
 

Zhukov

The Laughing Arsehole
Dec 29, 2009
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Publishers fund games that sell.

Games do not require good stories to sell.

Therefore, publishers to not give priority to games with good stories.