I believe that statement is up to Valve to decide. EA already tried to make one and it has failed miserably.
"We suck at telling the story" Microsoft engineer telling us how it really is
- Thread starter Meatspinner
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I know. What year is it? Is it still 2001 and we're constantly scratching our playstation 1 CD's?Dryk said:
And "trade ins for shit value"? Last I checked, you got $20 from game stop which was obviously fine with a lot people.
His whole post screams of finding the weirdest problems and using them as justification for more control over the console and it users. DONT YOU HATE SWAPPING GAMES? NOW YOU CAN USE DRM CLOUD! YOU'RE WELCOME!
Y'know, it doesn't cost a dime to have a gaming PC capable of playing decent games, right?wintercoat said:
Last I checked, Steam isn't a PC, it's an application. It's not my fault people want to compare a piece of expensive hardware to a free piece of software.amaranth_dru said:
Unnecessarily strict mods.
Hmm I don't like the console to pc comparison. Whenever someone mentions steam it's about time to drone out. Consoles can't be pcs that's what makes them consoles. The more they try to catch up to them(and sacrifice the few advantages consoles have in the process) the more appealing they make pc(and ps4 I suppose) look.
Hmm I don't like the console to pc comparison. Whenever someone mentions steam it's about time to drone out. Consoles can't be pcs that's what makes them consoles. The more they try to catch up to them(and sacrifice the few advantages consoles have in the process) the more appealing they make pc(and ps4 I suppose) look.
"The only diff is steam you have to sign in before playing, and Xbox does it automatically at night for you (once per 24 hours)"
except for offline mode...
except for offline mode...
Totally agreed there. Like, that sounds nice and all, but it all only works around your TV. With tablets and smartphones, we're clearly moving into an era where people expect their technology to go with them, and that works outside of the home as much as possible. The X-bone has been specifically designed with the idea of staying at home and in one, fixed place. Their vision of the future might have been in line with what people wanted back when the Jetsons was on, but these days people want to get shit done on the road.Sixcess said:
He kinda sounds like a con artist: like he has this radical vision of how everything could be different, but the guys we thought were the good guys are actually the bad guys or stupid. For me Steam=indie and Console=larger games (or indie). If I buy a game that takes a large time investment and is a lot of fun I want the physical thing not just a digital version.
I like Miyamoto's take on gaming: they want to make games people can keep for a long time. However, that isn't the best business policy if you want to make as much as possible as fast as possible. I hope Nintendo will stay around for much, much longer, they've really proven that they are more than a greedy company after our money.
I like Miyamoto's take on gaming: they want to make games people can keep for a long time. However, that isn't the best business policy if you want to make as much as possible as fast as possible. I hope Nintendo will stay around for much, much longer, they've really proven that they are more than a greedy company after our money.
I think one of the biggest and most glaring issues that he isn't addressing is the difference between Valve being privately owned and Microsoft being a public entity. All that talk of discounted games means jack crap because the shareholders are not going to like Microsoft selling first party titles at $30 when they could be selling them for $60. Xbone is not going to be the Steam of consoles, it's going to be the EA Origin of consoles. The leadership of Valve only have themselves to answer to. The CEO and other executive officers of MS have shareholders to answer to and shareholders are notorious for forcing god-awful descisions on execs who's only real job is to keep their job.
Which is why games on Origin are so much cheaper than their retail console counterparts.Meatspinner said:
O, WATE.
I have trouble believing we'll see cheaper-than-retail prices because of any of this. I'm skeptical from this guy's first line to his last.
Also:
That's nice. Are you going to get rid of HDMI-only, then? My input 1 isn't HDMI. A lot of people, even people with HDMI-ready TVs, do not have that.
If they had a plan to bring cheaper games to the Xbone, that would have certainly been announced at E3. All they had to say was "This new way of handling game licenses allows us to sell new release games at a fraction of the price. Forget paying $60 for a game - how does $30 sound?". Bam - E3 won. The fact is that even if this model brings back a ton of money for the publisher, they're still going to charge top dollar for the games because they're greedy fucks.
This must be why xbox live arcade games were always so cheap on 360 and went on sale a -75% sale every week. Those games were never available in store, so prices couldn't be dictated by brick and mortar chains. Right MS?
Oh wait, that never happened.
Do you want to know the real reason valve can get away with their sales? They're privately owned and have no shareholders to tell them "no". They also feature real competition with Amazon digital sales, GOG, Desura, GamersGate, GreenManGaming, etc.
Who will compete with digital sales on the XBone? Oh yeah, no one. Why would MS lower the prices? Out of the goodness of their hearts? Don't make me laugh. Valve, when they originally started steam as a distribution platform, had all the competition in the world from brick and mortar distribution. They made a compelling case by simply providing a good service with CHEAP games to make you want to buy on steam instead of elsewhere.
MS is, instead, dictating the market how they want. Disc games are basically just online games, online games are online games and it's that way cause we want it to be. No competition and complete pricing control. How perfect.
Oh wait, that never happened.
Do you want to know the real reason valve can get away with their sales? They're privately owned and have no shareholders to tell them "no". They also feature real competition with Amazon digital sales, GOG, Desura, GamersGate, GreenManGaming, etc.
Who will compete with digital sales on the XBone? Oh yeah, no one. Why would MS lower the prices? Out of the goodness of their hearts? Don't make me laugh. Valve, when they originally started steam as a distribution platform, had all the competition in the world from brick and mortar distribution. They made a compelling case by simply providing a good service with CHEAP games to make you want to buy on steam instead of elsewhere.
MS is, instead, dictating the market how they want. Disc games are basically just online games, online games are online games and it's that way cause we want it to be. No competition and complete pricing control. How perfect.
Maybe, just maybe he's right and Microsoft has done a terrible job of telling the story. But that is incredibly hard to believe given everything we've seen and heard so far. They have said nothing about conveniences for the consumer apart from vague mentions of cloud computing that don't seem to outway HAVING MY GAMES LOCKED OUT IF I DON'T CHECK IN EVERY 24 HOURS.
I'm so sick of people trying to make the comparison to Steam when everything about the Xbox One is far worse in comparison, and it further assumes that Steam is the only option for PC gaming. Now I love Steam but the fact is it's DRM, plain and simple. Not particularly invasive DRM, probably the most user-friendly DRM ever created, but the fact remains that without Steam my games vanish. That's why whenever I'm looking for a specific game I check other services first like Good Old Games or Desura which are DRM free.
Seriously, PC gaming is not as prohibitively expensive as people seem to think it is.
I'm so sick of people trying to make the comparison to Steam when everything about the Xbox One is far worse in comparison, and it further assumes that Steam is the only option for PC gaming. Now I love Steam but the fact is it's DRM, plain and simple. Not particularly invasive DRM, probably the most user-friendly DRM ever created, but the fact remains that without Steam my games vanish. That's why whenever I'm looking for a specific game I check other services first like Good Old Games or Desura which are DRM free.
For $500 you could probably get a computer that would run most games well enough, just not at max settings. That's not to mention no additional cost for online play. Then there's the fact that you can still play older, previous gen games on it.amaranth_dru said:
Seriously, PC gaming is not as prohibitively expensive as people seem to think it is.
I've said it multiple times that Microsoft has seriously dropped the ball on this, and if they had come out saying things in a different way, and offering OPTIONS.....they could have had a massive positive reaction instead of what has happened....and they would barely need to change anything.
First....digital copies are the primary method of purchasing games with the Xbox one. Digital copies need an online connection (at least every 24 hours) to be played, and can not be sold etc, BUT....digital copies are sold at a reduced price initially, and continue to reduce in price at a much faster rate then physical copies.
Physical copies of all games are still available, but they cost significantly more ($60 like now, vs $40 on average for digital versions). They can be played without "checking in" or having an internet connection just like on the 360.
Solves all the problems and makes the digital setup just a bonus for everyone...while still allowing those that want it to keep using physical copies at the same cost as they currently are.
Next, sell the Xbox one with or without the Kinect. The version without it will not be able to play many games that require the kinect, but sells for $100 less (same price as the PS4). That version can be upgraded at a later time for $100 with a kinect add on (so it's fully usable later on). Mostly solves that problem although it would require more work in a few places so the Xbox one can be used with a controller fully etc (I think it's currently set up to default to using the kinect to interface with it).
I'll be honest, I had no intention of buying a Xbox one. I barely used my 360..and only had 1 game I would have been sad not to have played on it. IF microsoft had come out with the above announcements though, and let me know that I could get multi-platform games for less on their system (as digital copies)...while also allowing me to have them all available much like my steam games......I would have gotten an Xbox one....probably still getting the Ps4 though (since it has some exclusives...more rpgs etc that I like. I would even probably have gotten Xbox gold finally (never even used my free month).
The real problem is two fold. First...they decided to make changes that are going to be VERY negative for some (Those with weak or no internet connection) and not offer alternatives...and second....they have a HORRIBLE PR department...and the way they have communicated with the fan base has probably been the worst I have ever seen.
They could still pull this off by making some very minor changes to be honest. All the hate will go away if they give the customer base CHOICES....and if they make the advantages (especially if one is saving money) clear.
Even paying $100 more for the system wouldn't hurt too much if you could get all multiplatform games on the Xbox one for $20 less at launch..meaning only 5 games an you break even (although admitingly you could trade in those 5 games in exchange for other new ones at gamestop and save that money as well....but then you wouldn't have em anymore....with Xbox you would still have the games AND the money to buy more.
I am not a fan of Xbox to be honest. I had more games I liked on the original Xbox then the 360 (Advent rising, Champions of Norrath etc).....but very few on the 360. I feel the system has been slanted heavily towards FPS fans. That being said...I hate to see a gaming system...one that has potential to possible move some parts of gaming forward (The kinect has potential to eventually lead to fairly decent home VR systems eventually for instance) get destroyed but bad choices.
This is my plea to Microsoft to PLEASE consider my solutions. Make physical copies available...but cost more. Sell a Xbox one without the kinect for a lower price...most people will still buy it WITH the kinect...but the option will make them feel better about it. And please make sure the people who respond to consumers in the future speak english or have a good translator....and don't insult everyone by calling them stupid or saying they need to be educated. I realize you were only trying to say that there was information we did not have...but it came off as an insult.
I realize this probably won't even be seen by anyone at Microsoft, but at least I tried.
First....digital copies are the primary method of purchasing games with the Xbox one. Digital copies need an online connection (at least every 24 hours) to be played, and can not be sold etc, BUT....digital copies are sold at a reduced price initially, and continue to reduce in price at a much faster rate then physical copies.
Physical copies of all games are still available, but they cost significantly more ($60 like now, vs $40 on average for digital versions). They can be played without "checking in" or having an internet connection just like on the 360.
Solves all the problems and makes the digital setup just a bonus for everyone...while still allowing those that want it to keep using physical copies at the same cost as they currently are.
Next, sell the Xbox one with or without the Kinect. The version without it will not be able to play many games that require the kinect, but sells for $100 less (same price as the PS4). That version can be upgraded at a later time for $100 with a kinect add on (so it's fully usable later on). Mostly solves that problem although it would require more work in a few places so the Xbox one can be used with a controller fully etc (I think it's currently set up to default to using the kinect to interface with it).
I'll be honest, I had no intention of buying a Xbox one. I barely used my 360..and only had 1 game I would have been sad not to have played on it. IF microsoft had come out with the above announcements though, and let me know that I could get multi-platform games for less on their system (as digital copies)...while also allowing me to have them all available much like my steam games......I would have gotten an Xbox one....probably still getting the Ps4 though (since it has some exclusives...more rpgs etc that I like. I would even probably have gotten Xbox gold finally (never even used my free month).
The real problem is two fold. First...they decided to make changes that are going to be VERY negative for some (Those with weak or no internet connection) and not offer alternatives...and second....they have a HORRIBLE PR department...and the way they have communicated with the fan base has probably been the worst I have ever seen.
They could still pull this off by making some very minor changes to be honest. All the hate will go away if they give the customer base CHOICES....and if they make the advantages (especially if one is saving money) clear.
Even paying $100 more for the system wouldn't hurt too much if you could get all multiplatform games on the Xbox one for $20 less at launch..meaning only 5 games an you break even (although admitingly you could trade in those 5 games in exchange for other new ones at gamestop and save that money as well....but then you wouldn't have em anymore....with Xbox you would still have the games AND the money to buy more.
I am not a fan of Xbox to be honest. I had more games I liked on the original Xbox then the 360 (Advent rising, Champions of Norrath etc).....but very few on the 360. I feel the system has been slanted heavily towards FPS fans. That being said...I hate to see a gaming system...one that has potential to possible move some parts of gaming forward (The kinect has potential to eventually lead to fairly decent home VR systems eventually for instance) get destroyed but bad choices.
This is my plea to Microsoft to PLEASE consider my solutions. Make physical copies available...but cost more. Sell a Xbox one without the kinect for a lower price...most people will still buy it WITH the kinect...but the option will make them feel better about it. And please make sure the people who respond to consumers in the future speak english or have a good translator....and don't insult everyone by calling them stupid or saying they need to be educated. I realize you were only trying to say that there was information we did not have...but it came off as an insult.
I realize this probably won't even be seen by anyone at Microsoft, but at least I tried.
If this is a honest to god Microsoft engineer, I am honestly beginning to worry that the Xbox One is a super huge piece of crap. This guy writes a whole piece trying to convince us we Xbox One is great and can't proof read the thing before posting it on the Internet. He can't avoid sounding like a douche bag frat boy. If he can't demonstrate professionalism while trying to sell us on the "underdog" I have to wonder where else he lacks professionalism.
For Microsoft's sake I hope this is a fraud. I seriously hope this guy does not do any engineering for anyone.
For Microsoft's sake I hope this is a fraud. I seriously hope this guy does not do any engineering for anyone.
Except that steam is a free service and the XBone is a $500 product. If they want to put out a service they should put out a service not a product. You can't have it both way either you are a service or a product. Steam has different limitations and standards because of the fact that it is a service so it can get away with different things and has to run by different standards than the consoles.
">Yeah we passed that around the office at Xbox. Most of us were like "Well played Sony, Well played". That being said they are just riding the hype train of ZOMG THEY ARE TRYING TO FUCK US FOR NO REASON. Without actually thinking about how convienent it would be for the majority of the time to not find that disc your brother didn't put back... [...] just simpleminded people not seeing the bigger picture. Some PS4 viral team made them all "U TOOK R DISCS" and they hiveminded."
Oh yeah that is a major problem. I keep losing my discs all the time. They're so hard to find inside those colourful boxes they come in. Keeping your discs in order is actually more convenient than relying on Microsoft's and other gaming companies' servers and on my internet connection being always there because the former is something that actually depends on me.
Oh yeah that is a major problem. I keep losing my discs all the time. They're so hard to find inside those colourful boxes they come in. Keeping your discs in order is actually more convenient than relying on Microsoft's and other gaming companies' servers and on my internet connection being always there because the former is something that actually depends on me.