Weird West - Dishonored meets Red Dead

[Phoenixmgs]

I noticed some coverage about Weird West in Skillup's latest news recap video so I figured there are some preview videos out there and whatnot. The game is from former Arkane Studio devs that wanted to get out of the AAA industry. The Escapist preview of the game was pretty damn good and Weird West has been on my Steam wishlist for like a year already. The game is a top-down immersive sim set in the Wild West with supernatural, gothic horror, and sci-fi elements (the weird). The game is looking really good and more action-oriented than I was initially thinking.

 

[Hawki]

Weird West. Wow. They named their game after a genre. Next you'll be telling me there's a game simply called cyberpunk that...

Oh.

 

[Dalisclock]

Yeah, I'm gonna check it out. It looks quite interesting.

 

[Xprimentyl]

I got reeled in with "Dishonored Meets Red Dead," wasn't happy to find a game that on its face reminds one of neither off those games. I'm not a big fan of top-down games (probably a hold over from my dislike of RTSs,) but this one looks [aesthetically] really good. Might watch a Let's Play or something which kinda shoots the whole "immersive sim" aspect in the ass, but oh, well.

However, the beginning of the video intrigued me when it showed footage of "Prey." I was never really interested in that game, so never paid it any attention, but seeing the footage, it looks right up my alley (Prototype, The Darkness, anything Venom, etc.) I WILL be given that one a go.

 

[happyninja42]

I got reeled in with "Dishonored Meets Red Dead," wasn't happy to find a game that on its face reminds one of neither off those games. I'm not a big fan of top-down games (probably a hold over from my dislike of RTSs,) but this one looks [aesthetically] really good. Might watch a Let's Play or something which kinda shoots the whole "immersive sim" aspect in the ass, but oh, well.

However, the beginning of the video intrigued me when it showed footage of "Prey." I was never really interested in that game, so never paid it any attention, but seeing the footage, it looks right up my alley (Prototype, The Darkness, anything Venom, etc.) I WILL be given that one a go.

Yeah the last thing I would've thought, when describing that game is Dishonored or Red Dead. My thoughts were Diablo 2 (due to the controls) and Shadow Tactics: Blade of the Shogun (due to the art style...and the topdown style)

 

[Xprimentyl]

Yeah the last thing I would've thought, when describing that game is Dishonored or Red Dead.

Yeah, the comparison to those two games is about as cursory as someone telling you "Hey, if you like those bands, you're gonna LOVE this one because they use some of the same instruments!"

 

[Phoenixmgs]

I got reeled in with "Dishonored Meets Red Dead," wasn't happy to find a game that on its face reminds one of neither off those games. I'm not a big fan of top-down games (probably a hold over from my dislike of RTSs,) but this one looks [aesthetically] really good. Might watch a Let's Play or something which kinda shoots the whole "immersive sim" aspect in the ass, but oh, well.

However, the beginning of the video intrigued me when it showed footage of "Prey." I was never really interested in that game, so never paid it any attention, but seeing the footage, it looks right up my alley (Prototype, The Darkness, anything Venom, etc.) I WILL be given that one a go.

Prey is solid overall but lasts longer than it really needed to.

Yeah the last thing I would've thought, when describing that game is Dishonored or Red Dead. My thoughts were Diablo 2 (due to the controls) and Shadow Tactics: Blade of the Shogun (due to the art style...and the topdown style)

I guess you can say that from a mechanical standpoint, it's not similar to Dishonored or Red Dead, but what you're doing with those mechanics is what you do in Dishonored. For example, I have no interest in playing Diablo (as I can't stand looters) but Weird West is one of my most anticipated games. Shadow Tactics is really just a stealth game but top-down, you do what you'd do in say Splinter Cell in that game just from a different perspective. And the same devs that made Shadow Tactics made Desperados 3 which I guess would be more similar to Weird West just because the setting. I really don't get why those games get tagged as real-time strategy on Steam (Desperados 3 is tagged as that) when they are nothing like an RTS. I guess technically they are strategy games you play in real-time but so is every other stealth game too (besides like Invisible Inc that is turn-based stealth game) if you wanna get that technical. I figured the Red Dead comparison is just the setting along with making it more attention grabbing.

 

[Xprimentyl]

...what you'd do in say Splinter Cell...

I have to be honest, I had no idea "immersive sim" was even a genre/category. I googled it, and was surprised by the spate of titles that showed up that easily fall into much more specific genres. Wikipedia defined it [roughly] as games with a heavy focus on players' choice affecting the events of the game, but that just feels like a really broad stroke to consider "immersive sim" a helpful descriptor. Like going to the library, asking for a book on cooking, and the librarian sends you off to the "C" section of the entire building.

Many games can be immersive without player choice being a key mechanic, and when I think "sim," I think "simulation" which, for all intents and purposes, almost every game can be considered a simulation insofar as none of them are real, but simulations of events, real or imagined. As compared to say, a military drone pilot; they're effectively "simulating" flying, but they are ACTUALLY bombing war zones. I zoned in your mention of Splinter Cell because it immediately sprung to my mind in as I was researching this genre of game as it does seem they fit the category of game as defined, but I don't see it mentioned or listed anywhere as one (by their definition.)

 

[Hawki]

I have to be honest, I had no idea "immersive sim" was even a genre/category.

Personally, I think it's pretty redundant as a genre. It's way too broad to be applied meaningfully.

 

[meiam]

Personally, I think it's pretty redundant as a genre. It's way too broad to be applied meaningfully.

It's actually pretty narrow of a genre, usually applied to the shock/deus ex and arkane studio game. It's hard to nail down, but its mostly about game that give you a lot of freedom to explore and deal with situation, that's probably where the "sim" part came from.

 

[wings012]

I feel like this might scratch my itch for a classic Fallout game in a weird way. Sometimes I get a hankering for a CRPG, but find myself with very little patience for overly complicated mechanics, character sheets or turn based combat.

At the end of the day what I want from an RPG is just to be able to explore, have relative freedom to do shit and dialogue mattering somewhat.

The ability to grab buckets of oil, TNT barrels etc to set stuff up reminds me a lot of Divinity Original Sin.

 

[Hawki]

It's actually pretty narrow of a genre, usually applied to the shock/deus ex and arkane studio game. It's hard to nail down, but its mostly about game that give you a lot of freedom to explore and deal with situation, that's probably where the "sim" part came from.

What makes that difference from an RPG and/or open world game though?

Stuff like Deus X and System Shock I broadly understood as being (A)RPGs.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

I have to be honest, I had no idea "immersive sim" was even a genre/category. I googled it, and was surprised by the spate of titles that showed up that easily fall into much more specific genres. Wikipedia defined it [roughly] as games with a heavy focus on players' choice affecting the events of the game, but that just feels like a really broad stroke to consider "immersive sim" a helpful descriptor. Like going to the library, asking for a book on cooking, and the librarian sends you off to the "C" section of the entire building.

Many games can be immersive without player choice being a key mechanic, and when I think "sim," I think "simulation" which, for all intents and purposes, almost every game can be considered a simulation insofar as none of them are real, but simulations of events, real or imagined. As compared to say, a military drone pilot; they're effectively "simulating" flying, but they are ACTUALLY bombing war zones. I zoned in your mention of Splinter Cell because it immediately sprung to my mind in as I was researching this genre of game as it does seem they fit the category of game as defined, but I don't see it mentioned or listed anywhere as one (by their definition.)

View attachment 4189

Game Maker's Toolkit videos are always really solid.

The reason the term "immersive sim" was coined because the design philosophy of them is that their worlds are a simulation of what one would think you could do in that actual world like attaching rope arrows to any piece of wood like the basic Thief example. It's also about systemic gameplay, which there is also a GMTK video, with several gameplay systems interacting with each other.

Possibly a better example is showing the opposite, a game with limitations that don't make logical sense and don't "simulate" a world. One of the 1st things that comes to mind is the new God of War that has a world that is very static. There's these shatter crystals (in video below) that you can throw and Atreus can blow up with his lightning arrows and you can only do this in the times the game wants you to do this. There's a bunch of pots that you have to hit by throwing your axe and I tried to throw and stick one of those shatter crystals to one of those pots and have Atreus shoot it but it doesn't blow up the pot. There's also a boss fight (IIRC a frost giant) where you have those shatter crystals in the room but, again, they don't work against the boss. Or the difference in the "freeze" guns in Deadspace and Prey as the gun in Prey can be used for more things than just combat purposes. That's the difference between immersive sims and regular games.

What makes that difference from an RPG and/or open world game though?

Stuff like Deus X and System Shock I broadly understood as being (A)RPGs.

For example, magic like fire in RPGs usually just do bonus damage against enemies weak to say fire. Whereas a RPG like Divinity Original Sin you can use fire to set the ground on fire, then cast rain to put out the fire to make steam, which causes visibility issues. Or you can freeze a puddle so enemies slip on ice as they try to get to you. Divinity is a much more towards being an immersive sim than say a Final Fantasy game while they are both RPGs.

 

[wings012]

What makes that difference from an RPG and/or open world game though?

Stuff like Deus X and System Shock I broadly understood as being (A)RPGs.

To one of my friends, ARPG seems to refer quite specifically to Diablo-likes. And I do feel like there are people do use the term ARPG to refer to such games.

Immersive sims typically are defined by how much freedom you have to tackle specific tasks. Yet the game might not offer much freedom in where you can go, in what order you do things etc. Even though you could finish a particular goal in DX in one of 5 ways, you still had to do it when it presented itself.

Whereas open world RPGs offer freedom in terms of when you wish to do anything or where to go in whatever order, yet might not offer any freedom in terms of actually tackling the tasks.

I think you can still call immersive sims what you consider to be their constituent genres. Sure Deux Ex is an action RPG FPS, but the term immersive sim is a nice way to just refer to those 'sorts' of RPGs.

 

[FennecZephyr]

To one of my friends, ARPG seems to refer quite specifically to Diablo-likes. And I do feel like there are people do use the term ARPG to refer to such games.

Immersive sims typically are defined by how much freedom you have to tackle specific tasks. Yet the game might not offer much freedom in where you can go, in what order you do things etc. Even though you could finish a particular goal in DX in one of 5 ways, you still had to do it when it presented itself.

Whereas open world RPGs offer freedom in terms of when you wish to do anything or where to go in whatever order, yet might not offer any freedom in terms of actually tackling the tasks.

I think you can still call immersive sims what you consider to be their constituent genres. Sure Deux Ex is an action RPG FPS, but the term immersive sim is a nice way to just refer to those 'sorts' of RPGs.

ARPGs and Action RPGs are completely different, separate genres, yes

 

[Xprimentyl]

Game Maker's Toolkit videos are always really solid.

The reason the term "immersive sim" was coined because the design philosophy of them is that their worlds are a simulation of what one would think you could do in that actual world like attaching rope arrows to any piece of wood like the basic Thief example. It's also about systemic gameplay, which there is also a GMTK video, with several gameplay systems interacting with each other.

Possibly a better example is showing the opposite, a game with limitations that don't make logical sense and don't "simulate" a world. One of the 1st things that comes to mind is the new God of War that has a world that is very static. There's these shatter crystals (in video below) that you can throw and Atreus can blow up with his lightning arrows and you can only do this in the times the game wants you to do this. There's a bunch of pots that you have to hit by throwing your axe and I tried to throw and stick one of those shatter crystals to one of those pots and have Atreus shoot it but it doesn't blow up the pot. There's also a boss fight (IIRC a frost giant) where you have those shatter crystals in the room but, again, they don't work against the boss. Or the difference in the "freeze" guns in Deadspace and Prey as the gun in Prey can be used for more things than just combat purposes. That's the difference between immersive sims and regular games.

Ok, I suppose I can see the distinction; thanks for clarifying. But it still feels rather arbitrary, particularly with modern games/technology more and more blurring the line. Since the era of the XB360/PS3, I haven't been much impressed with what random things a game "let's" me do over it's overall quality to feel "immersive sims" merit their own category.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

Ok, I suppose I can see the distinction; thanks for clarifying. But it still feels rather arbitrary, particularly with modern games/technology more and more blurring the line. Since the era of the XB360/PS3, I haven't been much impressed with what random things a game "let's" me do over it's overall quality to feel "immersive sims" merit their own category.

When the genre isn't tied to any mechanics (like say 1st-person shooting or platforming), it can get blurred rather quickly. For example, look at how blurred the genre of RPGs have gotten as just about every game has RPG elements now and what's the line that between not an RPG and an RPG now? For me, most RPGs have never been RPGs in my opinion because they rarely actually focus on role-playing. Whatever you do most in a game is what the main genre is for me, and most RPGs have you fighting more than anything so they're some kind of combat game to me. Whereas a game like Mass Effect has you role-playing (in dialogue making choices) more than it has you shooting, thus it's not primarily a shooter. In a game like Dishonored, I'm mainly trying to figure out what route to take, how I can accomplished my objective, exploring to see what I can find, what inventive way to take out/get around this guard, how 2 different systems interact and what I can do with them in combination, etc. The actual mechanics of game don't really matter whether I'm doing that via somewhat typical FPS mechanics or top-down Diablo-like mechanics. Like someone that wants to play a normal FPS like Doom is not going get that out of Prey for example. The stealth genre is also similar where you can have a game like Splinter Cell, Shadow Tactics, Hitman, Invisible Inc because the stealth genre isn't tied to any particular mechanics either.