Well, Retake Mass Effect 3 is pretty much over. What have we learned from this experience?

[Archer666]

Well, gaming journalism is really corrupt and has a horrible relationship to the games industry which causes them to lose objectivity. Compare "gaming journalism" coverage of this entire mess with the coverage that Forbes did. Forbes actually called EA and Bioware out on the shit they were/are pulling while the "gaming journalism" just ate up whatever press release they were given.

This entire mess taught me:
1. A lot of people take video games waaaaaay too seriously.
2. People spent money on silliest things when they think it can help.
3. Gaming Journalists cant handle criticism and turn into crybabies when pushed.
4. When the hell did Forbes turn into a reliable news outlet for video games?

Erik Kain is the guy writing for the Games department of Forbes.

 

[CrazyGirl17]

I think Yahtzee said it best: "Fans are clingy complaining dipshits who will never ever be grateful for any concession you make. The moment you shut out their shrill, tremulous voices the happier you will be for it."

(Not that I liked the ending either, I just got tired of hearing people complain...)

 

[Fappy]

Well, gaming journalism is really corrupt and has a horrible relationship to the games industry which causes them to lose objectivity. Compare "gaming journalism" coverage of this entire mess with the coverage that Forbes did. Forbes actually called EA and Bioware out on the shit they were/are pulling while the "gaming journalism" just ate up whatever press release they were given.

This entire mess taught me:
1. A lot of people take video games waaaaaay too seriously.
2. People spent money on silliest things when they think it can help.
3. Gaming Journalists cant handle criticism and turn into crybabies when pushed.
4. When the hell did Forbes turn into a reliable news outlet for video games?

Erik Kain is the guy writing for the Games department of Forbes.

To be fair I think Susan may have been reacting to an overwhelming implication that was being magnified by the Retake movement. I have read a lot of the Forbes articles and agree with most of what they have covered but its no secret that they have been getting FAR too much attention simply because they are outside the realm of video game journalism and people are agreeing with them. Yeah, its easy to point out the fact that they don't rely on game ad revenue but that doesn't automatically invalidate those who do. I think Susan may have been confusing Forbe's intentions with how readers/the Retake movement have been interpreting their stories.

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

I love how people keep saying 'fans'. How about consumers, because we're the ones PAYING for their product?

this is also true, which is why it's hard to compare it to some other mediums, such as music/tv, as music you don't need to pay for it to listen to it, and same goes for tv series (people bring up the LOST ending)

when you pay for something, you expect coherent quality.

 

[Archer666]

Well, gaming journalism is really corrupt and has a horrible relationship to the games industry which causes them to lose objectivity. Compare "gaming journalism" coverage of this entire mess with the coverage that Forbes did. Forbes actually called EA and Bioware out on the shit they were/are pulling while the "gaming journalism" just ate up whatever press release they were given.

This entire mess taught me:
1. A lot of people take video games waaaaaay too seriously.
2. People spent money on silliest things when they think it can help.
3. Gaming Journalists cant handle criticism and turn into crybabies when pushed.
4. When the hell did Forbes turn into a reliable news outlet for video games?

Erik Kain is the guy writing for the Games department of Forbes.

I'm out of the loop on the whole Arendt/Kain thing, could you please clarify it? I'd much appreciate it.

Off-topic: Also, you wouldn't happen to be hungarian, would you?

As far as I know, this is the only exchange they had. Erik Kain has been extremely critical of Bioware and EA, and of gaming journalism as a whole ever since the Retake movement started getting big. The tweet that Arendt did may be in regards to this article, which points out some shady business in regards to "gaming journalism". It's a very interesting read.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2012/03/23/do-positive-mass-effect-3-reviews-reveal-a-conflict-of-interest-in-gaming-journalism/

Also, I'm not Hungerian, but Dutch.

Edit: Just gonna reply to this here as well:

Well, gaming journalism is really corrupt and has a horrible relationship to the games industry which causes them to lose objectivity. Compare "gaming journalism" coverage of this entire mess with the coverage that Forbes did. Forbes actually called EA and Bioware out on the shit they were/are pulling while the "gaming journalism" just ate up whatever press release they were given.

This entire mess taught me:
1. A lot of people take video games waaaaaay too seriously.
2. People spent money on silliest things when they think it can help.
3. Gaming Journalists cant handle criticism and turn into crybabies when pushed.
4. When the hell did Forbes turn into a reliable news outlet for video games?

Erik Kain is the guy writing for the Games department of Forbes.

To be fair I think Susan may have been reacting to an overwhelming implication that was being magnified by the Retake movement. I have read a lot of the Forbes articles and agree with most of what they have covered but its no secret that they have been getting FAR too much attention simply because they are outside the realm of video game journalism and people are agreeing with them. Yeah, its easy to point out the fact that they don't rely on game ad revenue but that doesn't automatically invalidate those who do. I think Susan may have been confusing Forbe's intentions with how readers/the Retake movement have been interpreting their stories.

The reason that Forbes stands out is because they're an outsider and a respectable publication, I think. The fact that people agree with them is something that gaming journalism should take note of, instead of attacking them like she did. Whether it was because of misinterpretation or implications, firing off a tweet like that is hardly professional. It gives a bad impression of the outfit she's affiliated with and, since gaming journalism is superbad, serves as an example of the state of the industry.

It may not invalidate them, but it lessens them. Game journalism has a horrible, parasitic relationship with the games industry and that causes everyone in it to be seen as untrustworthy. That's pretty much a fact. Therefore, its kind of hard for people to take what they say seriously without thinking "I wonder how much money it took for x to say y?". The only way to change it is to change gaming journalism somehow.

 

[The_Lost_King]

I have learned that Bioware are dicks for not changing the ending only trying to explain plot holes that could be fixed by putting in a better ending, FUCK YOU CASEY HUDSON.

 

[Acton Hank]

I leaned to never trust EA and Bioware and to never under any circumstances buy any of their games ever again.

A bit harsh don't you think?

I learned that even things that can seem unfuckupable can be fucked up at the last minute.
Oh, and never underestimate how much damage you can do in 10 minutes to a 100 plus hour saga.

 

[Merrick_HLC]

Here's what I learned:

People will look for any reason to be a condescending bully towards others. I've seen so many god damn strawmans over the retake Mass Effect movement. Implying that people who support it:

-Are spoiled children
-Dislike the ending specifically because it wasn't what they imagined.
-Want complete control over art.
-Are pulling their hair out over video games.

I have seen very few people who actually took the time to try and understand what the retake Mass Effect movement was all about. And it is discouraging to say the least.

The reason why people are mad is NOT because they want a fairy tale ending. It's NOT because they want complete control over the series.

It's because the ending was clearly rushed (One of the clearest signs of a rushed ending is when plotpoints are introduced out of nowhere at the last second.) , it betrayed a lot of series themes, deus ex machina, killing any potential future for the Mass Effect series after the Reaper Invasion, ignoring all the choices you made up to this point and the endings were all the same.

And despite it only being like 10 minutes long, there are so many plotholes.

It's a shit ending to an otherwise fantastic series.

Very true.

And also that some folks will always think "The complainer is always wrong"

What I mean is this.
How many times have we heard "Why don't you take that energy and do something positive?"
Which, ironically, is what the Retake thing TRIED to do. "You're upset? Instead of just complaining online, let's give money to a charity."

So what's the response from many "How dare you sully a charity's name. You're just trying to make yourself look good."


So in other words.
Be upset and complain online without doing any good for mankind? You should try to do good for mankind.
Be upset AND try to do good for mankind. Well you're doing good for mankind for the wrong reasons so you still suck.

*facepalm*

 

[Lovely Mixture]

The debate of "rights of the creator vs rights of the consumer/fan" will never reach consensus unless very specific conditions are met.

I have seen very few people who actually took the time to try and understand what the retake Mass Effect movement was all about. And it is discouraging to say the least.

The reason why people are mad is NOT because they want a fairy tale ending. It's NOT because they want complete control over the series.

It's because the ending was clearly rushed (One of the clearest signs of a rushed ending is when plotpoints are introduced out of nowhere at the last second.) , it betrayed a lot of series themes, deus ex machina, killing any potential future for the Mass Effect series after the Reaper Invasion, ignoring all the choices you made up to this point and the endings were all the same.

This. I've seen too many straw-man tactics used against either side.

You didn't like the ending? This means you must be a ignorant plebeian cry baby who can't understand art and is demanding changes to a finished product so you can have a sparkly marriage space waifu ending.

You liked the ending? This means you're a Biodrone sheeple that will buy anything as long as it has Mass Effect written on it and you are EVERYTHING wrong with videogaming.

And if you've taken part in any of this argument you are a child who can't get over the fact that "it's just a game."

 

[Canadamus Prime]

I learned that there are a great many gamers that need to go die in a fire.

EDIT: Or at the very least get a 2X4 (as in a plank of wood) to the upside of the head.

This. So much this.
This entire ME3 ending outrage was beyond pathetic.

Indeed. I still haven't even played ME3 and TBH I don't care how bad ME3 ending is, the general response to the endings made me ashamed to call myself a gamer!

 

[Acton Hank]

I learned that there are a great many gamers that need to go die in a fire.

EDIT: Or at the very least get a 2X4 (as in a plank of wood) to the upside of the head.

This. So much this.
This entire ME3 ending outrage was beyond pathetic.

Indeed. I still haven't even played ME3 and TBH I don't care how bad ME3 ending is, the general response to the endings made me ashamed to call myself a gamer!

Let's see of you still feel that way when you get there.

 

[Fappy]

Well, gaming journalism is really corrupt and has a horrible relationship to the games industry which causes them to lose objectivity. Compare "gaming journalism" coverage of this entire mess with the coverage that Forbes did. Forbes actually called EA and Bioware out on the shit they were/are pulling while the "gaming journalism" just ate up whatever press release they were given.

This entire mess taught me:
1. A lot of people take video games waaaaaay too seriously.
2. People spent money on silliest things when they think it can help.
3. Gaming Journalists cant handle criticism and turn into crybabies when pushed.
4. When the hell did Forbes turn into a reliable news outlet for video games?

Erik Kain is the guy writing for the Games department of Forbes.

I'm out of the loop on the whole Arendt/Kain thing, could you please clarify it? I'd much appreciate it.

Off-topic: Also, you wouldn't happen to be hungarian, would you?

As far as I know, this is the only exchange they had. Erik Kain has been extremely critical of Bioware and EA, and of gaming journalism as a whole ever since the Retake movement started getting big. The tweet that Arendt did may be in regards to this article, which points out some shady business in regards to "gaming journalism". It's a very interesting read.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2012/03/23/do-positive-mass-effect-3-reviews-reveal-a-conflict-of-interest-in-gaming-journalism/

Also, I'm not Hungerian, but Dutch.

Edit: Just gonna reply to this here as well:

Well, gaming journalism is really corrupt and has a horrible relationship to the games industry which causes them to lose objectivity. Compare "gaming journalism" coverage of this entire mess with the coverage that Forbes did. Forbes actually called EA and Bioware out on the shit they were/are pulling while the "gaming journalism" just ate up whatever press release they were given.

This entire mess taught me:
1. A lot of people take video games waaaaaay too seriously.
2. People spent money on silliest things when they think it can help.
3. Gaming Journalists cant handle criticism and turn into crybabies when pushed.
4. When the hell did Forbes turn into a reliable news outlet for video games?

Erik Kain is the guy writing for the Games department of Forbes.

To be fair I think Susan may have been reacting to an overwhelming implication that was being magnified by the Retake movement. I have read a lot of the Forbes articles and agree with most of what they have covered but its no secret that they have been getting FAR too much attention simply because they are outside the realm of video game journalism and people are agreeing with them. Yeah, its easy to point out the fact that they don't rely on game ad revenue but that doesn't automatically invalidate those who do. I think Susan may have been confusing Forbe's intentions with how readers/the Retake movement have been interpreting their stories.

The reason that Forbes stands out is because they're an outsider and a respectable publication, I think. The fact that people agree with them is something that gaming journalism should take note of, instead of attacking them like she did. Whether it was because of misinterpretation or implications, firing off a tweet like that is hardly professional. It gives a bad impression of the outfit she's affiliated with and, since gaming journalism is superbad, serves as an example of the state of the industry.

It may not invalidate them, but it lessens them. Game journalism has a horrible, parasitic relationship with the games industry and that causes everyone in it to be seen as untrustworthy. That's pretty much a fact. Therefore, its kind of hard for people to take what they say seriously without thinking "I wonder how much money it took for x to say y?". The only way to change it is to change gaming journalism somehow.

It certainly doesn't help when some of the larger game-journalism outfits do something ridiculously transparent. The whole IGN Chobot in ME3 thing is a disgrace to journalism... even if she barely qualifies as one, she represents IGN with her presence.

 

[tensorproduct]

Ah, but throwing hissy fits does get results. See also: politics.

No arguing with that. I might just pout and stomp my feet until you change your mind though.

 

[tensorproduct]

I've learned that I share a hobby with a surprisingly large number of people who will throw a temper tantrum to satisfy their entitlement complexes. The best thing that Bioware could have done would be to ignore everyone. Not because of "artistic integrity", but because the world would be a marginally better place if a few thousand people learned that throwing a hissy fit won't get results.

Frankly, I'm embarrassed to even know about this controversy.

The world is where it is thanks to people like you.

Don't complain, don't say anything, just be quiet and enjoy the shit they throw at you. At least they're not Hitler, right?! Whoops, Godwin'd myself.

Wish I were such a model customer. Always content with whatever crap I get and never demand better. Unless you never actually bought anything you wanted and were disappointed with.

Jumping right to comparisons with appeasement, huh? Classy. In fairness, I started off with a pretty insulting post, I was prepared for a lot more but I can't see the benefit in it. So, my apologies.

My point is, just because you want something, or just because you feel you deserve it, or even if you've been promised it doesn't mean you get it. It's perfectly reasonable to feel hurt, or betrayed or to want more than you got. That's a natural response to things not going your way. Letting people know that you're unhappy is totally okay. Never wanting to associate with whoever hurt you is fine. Raising money for charity is awesome (and the thing with the cupcakes was fucking hilarious).

However, demanding that things go your way is childish. We're not talking about human rights abuses, or the Nazis, or rape. This is the ending to a story. If you didn't like it, go find more stories, there are plenty out there. Pretend that this one didn't happen (personally, I believe that there were only three Indiana Jones movies and nothing can convince me otherwise) and write your own fanfic ending. Hell, make up your own tale from scratch. Tell the story that you think Bioware couldn't.

I don't want this to sound like "it's just a video game" (I love video games and I think they're a great medium for story-telling) and I certainly don't want to jump on the "you're killing art!!!" argument (that's just silly). I just can't see that anybody's time was best spent in petitioning Bioware to change their story, when all of that time and energy could have been spent elsewhere.

 

[Justanewguy]

9. I agree that devs should be able to take risks, but they honestly cannot at this point. See your example of the backlash against DA2, the backlash against Windwaker when it first came out, etc.

As bad as the backlash against Windwaker was, it stood the test of time and is now looked back on fairly well by many people. Taking risks is fine, so long as the end result is good, and history is what decides that. I don't think history has had a long enough time to judge the Mass Effect series' ending, but I also don't think that the ending was a "risk" per-se. It was an overly cerebral look at only a single characteristic of the game's major plot points, and was intended to give people room to interpret. I choose to interpret it via the Indoctrination Theory. Others refuse to interpret it at all. Either way, a lot of people are very unhappy with the ending, mostly due to the major plot holes that it opened up. (Why is the Normandy going through the Mass Relay? What the heck is with the color changing space magic? How is the Star Child the "catalyst" if no one knew about him before? Ect.)

 

[Abedeus]

I've learned that I share a hobby with a surprisingly large number of people who will throw a temper tantrum to satisfy their entitlement complexes. The best thing that Bioware could have done would be to ignore everyone. Not because of "artistic integrity", but because the world would be a marginally better place if a few thousand people learned that throwing a hissy fit won't get results.

Frankly, I'm embarrassed to even know about this controversy.

The world is where it is thanks to people like you.

Don't complain, don't say anything, just be quiet and enjoy the shit they throw at you. At least they're not Hitler, right?! Whoops, Godwin'd myself.

Wish I were such a model customer. Always content with whatever crap I get and never demand better. Unless you never actually bought anything you wanted and were disappointed with.

Jumping right to comparisons with appeasement, huh? Classy. In fairness, I started off with a pretty insulting post, I was prepared for a lot more but I can't see the benefit in it. So, my apologies.

My point is, just because you want something, or just because you feel you deserve it, or even if you've been promised it doesn't mean you get it. It's perfectly reasonable to feel hurt, or betrayed or to want more than you got. That's a natural response to things not going your way. Letting people know that you're unhappy is totally okay. Never wanting to associate with whoever hurt you is fine. Raising money for charity is awesome (and the thing with the cupcakes was fucking hilarious).

However, demanding that things go your way is childish. We're not talking about human rights abuses, or the Nazis, or rape. This is the ending to a story. If you didn't like it, go find more stories, there are plenty out there. Pretend that this one didn't happen (personally, I believe that there were only three Indiana Jones movies and nothing can convince me otherwise) and write your own fanfic ending. Hell, make up your own tale from scratch. Tell the story that you think Bioware couldn't.

I don't want this to sound like "it's just a video game" (I love video games and I think they're a great medium for story-telling) and I certainly don't want to jump on the "you're killing art!!!" argument (that's just silly). I just can't see that anybody's time was best spent in petitioning Bioware to change their story, when all of that time and energy could have been spent elsewhere.

We are consumers.

If you lie to a consumer, you have to be prepared for a backlash.

If you are told that the car you're buying is in perfect condition and upon purchase you find out its fuel consumption is 50% higher than what was promised and there's a corpse in the trunk, you would be pretty damn angry. Pissed off.

Except in this case we are talking about an end to a 90 hour video games series that for millions of players was the modern Star Wars/Star Trek of science fiction. We can't just "find another game", that's not dealing with the issue, it's avoiding the issue.

It's about the fact that they brutally punched the ending to the ground and left it bleeding with plotholes, inconsistencies, loyal friends (Joker and the crew) betraying you for no reason and of course, you save the galaxy while dooming the galactic civilization.

All colonies that aren't fully self-reliant die, and everyone who happened to be near a Mass Relay when they exploded was probably very, very dead.

The ending is terrible as a whole. The premise is terrible, the execution is terrible and follow-up is terrible.

I learned that there are a great many gamers that need to go die in a fire.

EDIT: Or at the very least get a 2X4 (as in a plank of wood) to the upside of the head.

This. So much this.
This entire ME3 ending outrage was beyond pathetic.

Indeed. I still haven't even played ME3 and TBH I don't care how bad ME3 ending is, the general response to the endings made me ashamed to call myself a gamer!

Let's see of you still feel that way when you get there.

Yeah, I love this.

"I DIDN'T PLAY IT BUT IT CAN'T BE THAT BAD, I MEAN COME ON!"

And then people finish it.

I secretly think anyone who isn't against the ending either never played all of the ME games, or didn't care about the plot.