Westboro Baptist Church, Wikileaks Troll Steve Jobs' Death
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Why has no one picketed them while they picketed something? Either that or someone should beat the shit out of them. I guess that shows human kindness that these funeral goers havnt yet. Although they are well within their rights to.
True, and let us not forget that some of these people being protested might just very well be Christians as well. These deranged bastards would protest Jesus himself if it could serve to "prove" a point in their eyes.brainslurper said:You know, believe whatever the fuck you want, but when you want to cite a 2000 year old book in which the entire human race expands from two people, one of which is the rib of the other, and a 600 year old man fits billions of animals onto a boat that he and his family built, and keeps them alive there until the flood of water that simply materialized in an amount capable of covering the entire earth has subsided as a reason to picket peoples funerals goes beyond any definition of insanity we have. Especially when the people they are picketing are decent, hard working individuals who simply didn't play into the vision of the world they saw.SelectivelyEvil13 said:WBC: Have some godammned respect, a man just died and all you can think about is spouting off bigotry. I can't wait to protest their funerals, and you can damn well bet there will be nightly return visits involving flaming bags of dog excrement.
And so it became, the Westoboro Lunatic's iPhone broke, if not before releasing hundreds of compromising digital photos contradicting every view espoused by the villian. - The New Fuctimus Westborus Testament"Rebels mad cuz I used iPhone to tell you Steve Jobs is in hell. God created iPhone for that purpose!"
Who the hell are the "rebels" being referred to, anyway? Last time I checked, the WBC is rebelling against the realms of sanity and decency.
Honestly, is religious persecution that wrong in a case when the religious cult in question is so agreeably bad?
I cannot claim the utmost veracity of this claim that I've heard many times (even my college political class), the WBC aren't even really that into their beliefs; it's a lot of legal ploy to goad people into assaulting them so they can sue. It's like poking a stick at a snake, except the WBC wants that snake to eventually bite them so they can run to their lawyers and call foul. Again, I'm not 100% on any of that, but it almost makes me feel better to think that they're just greedy, bigoted, ignorant subhumans as opposed to egregiously crazy, bigoted, ignorant subhumans who actually believe their own hateful shit. Either way, I'm waiting for one of those "snakes" to bite back with automatic gun fire....
I totally agree - I think you're misinterpreting what I said. Basically I believe that schools need to teach children -- to steal a line from Matt Dillahunty -- how to think instead of what to think. In other words, teach them how to think critically and how to tell the difference between good and bad evidence, belief and knowledge, etc. Yeah, we're pretty much on the same page. Cool.SinisterGehe said:You know we are both saying the same thing here. The only difference between me and you is the fact that I want religion to be removed on the term of the believers, they must realize what they are "doing wrong". We must not use the same methods as the religion does, 'brainwashing' that is. We must offer tools for the children to realize a different world view than the religious one, we can not force it to them, it is against every human rights statement and most constitutional laws that I know of. We must give education of science and philosophy, critical thinking and everything like that. They are part of Finnish schools from the first grade on. But the problem regions - pardon me - are USA and soon UK. The school systems are ineffective and almost bad, for the parts that I have observed while visiting these places. Unless we can make these schools better, the education content better and the motivation of the students better so that they want to learn instead of hanging with their old beliefs.Bento Box said:OK, I'm really tired of typing right now, and probably won't return to this thread until real late tonight, or tomorrow morning-ish, but I wanna give a quick response to this.SinisterGehe said:How do you teach a person who doesn't want to be taught? I am sure if it would be that simple, the Age of Enlightenment would and the 1800ths with it science and everything would have driven religion off the face of the humanity. Fact is, you can't kill ideas...Bento Box said:How abou instead of trying to kill Christians, you try to kill off faith and dogma? The problem is not the people - it's how the people think. Faith -- believing things without supporting evidence, or in the face of contrary evidence -- is a problem, because it sets all your ideas up for failure across the board. Dogma is a problem because it sets rules in stone, and disallows further examination of one's beliefs. Together these are a perfect recipe for crusades, witch hunts, the God's Liberation Army, and airplane-borne wrecking crews.SinisterGehe said:I once planned to make a statue out of clay that resembles Jesus on cross and then get some depleted Uranium^223 or Plutonium, or the any of the radioactive gold isotopes. Hide them inside the statue then ship it to them as a "gift from a believer - you are doing the right thing, may God's light radiate upon you"...imnotparanoid said:
But then my dreams were shattered because according to UN, that is considered to be international terrorism...
Oh well I can always dream of destroying those who do not respect humanity and what it has achieved.
On topic... When their member dies next time, I think I will travel to US just to picket hes funeral. But whoever did the Wikileaks shit clearly didn't know that Steve had announce hes cancer... LONG AGO!!!
Sigh. I hate humans...
Instead of killing the people, why not inform them instead? There are brilliant people of faith , who could be so much more brilliant if their faith didn't get in the way of their contributions to humanity. Faith already has a high enough body count. Don't add to it.
It is easy for people who don't understand the complicated word to take a grip on something supernatural. If that supernatural brings the feeling on comfort and safety you can not just rip it off them. I am sure that you wouldn't want to give away your coat if you are feeling cold and I say that according to the thermometer it is not that cold here, you could survive without the coat easy - will you hand your coat to me? It has been seen in social science many times, no matter how violent or troubled the mother is, no matter how much she beats or hates her child the children will always get defensive when you talk bad about their mothers, it is the same in the nature, no matter how much the mother attacks the pup, it wil continue following the mother.
Religion is like that, it is safety and comfort for those who do not understand or want to understand, you can not educate them out of their beliefs, they will just retaliate - they will go defensive, they will do anything to make sure that their personal world view doesn't get shattered. When Christians were being hunted by romans, they went underground, they lied about their faith, they hide their religion from the sight of those who were out to get rid of it. Jews have been hunted because of their religion for thousands of years and what did they do... diaspora. They shattered in to thousands of small pieces than can not all be retaliated, they religion and ideology was saved.
If we think religion as some kind of bad idea, a ghost of mid, something that is bad and should be removed - which I do, for the most parts. It can be removed either by proving to the person that hes believes are wrong, hes way of thinking can be changed via 'therapy' - mind control. Melt, reinforce, set, but this method has been proven only to work for short period of time, the old ideas will submerge sooner or later. And as science knows, therapy doesn't work unless the subject embraces it, it wont work unless the subject wants it to work. We can not change the set mind state of a human, it must change it itself. We can not force religion to disappear, we can only offer other answer to the mystery of life and existence of everything and hope that those who still hang on to the old views and beliefs will take them and embrace them.
It has been proven in the history that you can not kill ideas - ideologies to be exact. There will always be someone who survives with the the ideas or someone who finds them again. Humans have for thousands of years tried to eradicate views that they have not approved with, they have all survived until they disappear in to the mist of majority. No one hangs on the old beliefs of Kalevala - the epic poetry and mythology of Finland. But almost every Finn can recite you how the basic plot and stories go, we know them, but hundreds of years of education and force feeding Christianity did it's job, no one anymore lingers to the old ideas. The Finns were never happy with their forced beliefs and that is why out country soon has a majority of atheist and people of do not belong to a church/religion.
We can not force ideas out of people's heads, we can only offer other ideas and hope. But we can remove the people who hold these ideas, but they can remove us as much as we can remove them.
I dream of eradicating religion of this world, I wish people would see the reality in its whole beauty and not cloud their views by supernatural filters. But I can only dream, but I will never act violently towards anyone for their ideas, I will not go as low as religion has gone in order to force people to their dogmas. I will give a warm welcome to anyone who wants to accept my view, but I will retaliate - intellectually - who tries to force theirs on me.
I agree, Religion is a problem, but it's a symptom of the real issue: faith. Religions don't have evidence to back them up, so they rely on indoctrinating people very early on that 'faith' is a good thing. The way to defeat this (and granted, it certainly won't be perfectly effective) is by countering that indoctrination early on, too, by teaching important stuff like critical thinking and philosophy of science. Even if this doesn't work for everyone, it certainly will make the problem less than it is, and even for the people who don't get 'better (for lack of a better term in my word-addled mind),' the answer is not to crush them. Let them run their course -- push back with the better ideas of course, but killing them just makes them martyrs, never mind that it's a shitty thing to do.
I'm going to go somewhere that isn't a keyboard for a while now. *shakes his poor hands violently*
This is a fight that can not be won with forcing facts down the throats of the children. We must let them realize it them selfs, it is much more motivating and rewarding that way.
Yeah I know, that is what I been saying also. The only difference between out ideas is the fact that you seem that we must make the children to learn these methods. I see that we must offer children these tools to pick them up them selfs.Bento Box said:I totally agree - I think you're misinterpreting what I said. Basically I believe that schools need to teach children -- to steal a line from Matt Dillahunty -- how to think instead of what to think. In other words, teach them how to think critically and how to tell the difference between good and bad evidence, belief and knowledge, etc. Yeah, we're pretty much on the same page. Cool.SinisterGehe said:You know we are both saying the same thing here. The only difference between me and you is the fact that I want religion to be removed on the term of the believers, they must realize what they are "doing wrong". We must not use the same methods as the religion does, 'brainwashing' that is. We must offer tools for the children to realize a different world view than the religious one, we can not force it to them, it is against every human rights statement and most constitutional laws that I know of. We must give education of science and philosophy, critical thinking and everything like that. They are part of Finnish schools from the first grade on. But the problem regions - pardon me - are USA and soon UK. The school systems are ineffective and almost bad, for the parts that I have observed while visiting these places. Unless we can make these schools better, the education content better and the motivation of the students better so that they want to learn instead of hanging with their old beliefs.Bento Box said:OK, I'm really tired of typing right now, and probably won't return to this thread until real late tonight, or tomorrow morning-ish, but I wanna give a quick response to this.SinisterGehe said:How do you teach a person who doesn't want to be taught? I am sure if it would be that simple, the Age of Enlightenment would and the 1800ths with it science and everything would have driven religion off the face of the humanity. Fact is, you can't kill ideas...Bento Box said:How abou instead of trying to kill Christians, you try to kill off faith and dogma? The problem is not the people - it's how the people think. Faith -- believing things without supporting evidence, or in the face of contrary evidence -- is a problem, because it sets all your ideas up for failure across the board. Dogma is a problem because it sets rules in stone, and disallows further examination of one's beliefs. Together these are a perfect recipe for crusades, witch hunts, the God's Liberation Army, and airplane-borne wrecking crews.SinisterGehe said:I once planned to make a statue out of clay that resembles Jesus on cross and then get some depleted Uranium^223 or Plutonium, or the any of the radioactive gold isotopes. Hide them inside the statue then ship it to them as a "gift from a believer - you are doing the right thing, may God's light radiate upon you"...imnotparanoid said:
But then my dreams were shattered because according to UN, that is considered to be international terrorism...
Oh well I can always dream of destroying those who do not respect humanity and what it has achieved.
On topic... When their member dies next time, I think I will travel to US just to picket hes funeral. But whoever did the Wikileaks shit clearly didn't know that Steve had announce hes cancer... LONG AGO!!!
Sigh. I hate humans...
Instead of killing the people, why not inform them instead? There are brilliant people of faith , who could be so much more brilliant if their faith didn't get in the way of their contributions to humanity. Faith already has a high enough body count. Don't add to it.
It is easy for people who don't understand the complicated word to take a grip on something supernatural. If that supernatural brings the feeling on comfort and safety you can not just rip it off them. I am sure that you wouldn't want to give away your coat if you are feeling cold and I say that according to the thermometer it is not that cold here, you could survive without the coat easy - will you hand your coat to me? It has been seen in social science many times, no matter how violent or troubled the mother is, no matter how much she beats or hates her child the children will always get defensive when you talk bad about their mothers, it is the same in the nature, no matter how much the mother attacks the pup, it wil continue following the mother.
Religion is like that, it is safety and comfort for those who do not understand or want to understand, you can not educate them out of their beliefs, they will just retaliate - they will go defensive, they will do anything to make sure that their personal world view doesn't get shattered. When Christians were being hunted by romans, they went underground, they lied about their faith, they hide their religion from the sight of those who were out to get rid of it. Jews have been hunted because of their religion for thousands of years and what did they do... diaspora. They shattered in to thousands of small pieces than can not all be retaliated, they religion and ideology was saved.
If we think religion as some kind of bad idea, a ghost of mid, something that is bad and should be removed - which I do, for the most parts. It can be removed either by proving to the person that hes believes are wrong, hes way of thinking can be changed via 'therapy' - mind control. Melt, reinforce, set, but this method has been proven only to work for short period of time, the old ideas will submerge sooner or later. And as science knows, therapy doesn't work unless the subject embraces it, it wont work unless the subject wants it to work. We can not change the set mind state of a human, it must change it itself. We can not force religion to disappear, we can only offer other answer to the mystery of life and existence of everything and hope that those who still hang on to the old views and beliefs will take them and embrace them.
It has been proven in the history that you can not kill ideas - ideologies to be exact. There will always be someone who survives with the the ideas or someone who finds them again. Humans have for thousands of years tried to eradicate views that they have not approved with, they have all survived until they disappear in to the mist of majority. No one hangs on the old beliefs of Kalevala - the epic poetry and mythology of Finland. But almost every Finn can recite you how the basic plot and stories go, we know them, but hundreds of years of education and force feeding Christianity did it's job, no one anymore lingers to the old ideas. The Finns were never happy with their forced beliefs and that is why out country soon has a majority of atheist and people of do not belong to a church/religion.
We can not force ideas out of people's heads, we can only offer other ideas and hope. But we can remove the people who hold these ideas, but they can remove us as much as we can remove them.
I dream of eradicating religion of this world, I wish people would see the reality in its whole beauty and not cloud their views by supernatural filters. But I can only dream, but I will never act violently towards anyone for their ideas, I will not go as low as religion has gone in order to force people to their dogmas. I will give a warm welcome to anyone who wants to accept my view, but I will retaliate - intellectually - who tries to force theirs on me.
I agree, Religion is a problem, but it's a symptom of the real issue: faith. Religions don't have evidence to back them up, so they rely on indoctrinating people very early on that 'faith' is a good thing. The way to defeat this (and granted, it certainly won't be perfectly effective) is by countering that indoctrination early on, too, by teaching important stuff like critical thinking and philosophy of science. Even if this doesn't work for everyone, it certainly will make the problem less than it is, and even for the people who don't get 'better (for lack of a better term in my word-addled mind),' the answer is not to crush them. Let them run their course -- push back with the better ideas of course, but killing them just makes them martyrs, never mind that it's a shitty thing to do.
I'm going to go somewhere that isn't a keyboard for a while now. *shakes his poor hands violently*
This is a fight that can not be won with forcing facts down the throats of the children. We must let them realize it them selfs, it is much more motivating and rewarding that way.
The WBC would just sue them to get more money to fund their sign-printing facilities, brainwashing supplies and prescriptions of incredibly powerful drugs.SonOfVoorhees said:
Why do we keep giving these people the attention they crave? >>
Also:
http://revelandriot.com/#D3423
Scroll down to the first image in the right column. God hates bags... I laugh every time.
I really should have checked before accidentally reviving this (thereby making me a hypocrite). Oops. >>
Also:
http://revelandriot.com/#D3423
Scroll down to the first image in the right column. God hates bags... I laugh every time.
I really should have checked before accidentally reviving this (thereby making me a hypocrite). Oops. >>
That is an utterly ignorant thing to say. You shouldn't offer an opinion on a group of people that you know nothing about.Bento Box said:
"The Finns were never happy with their forced beliefs and that is why out country soon has a majority of atheist and people of do not belong to a church/religion." Absolutely incorrect. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Finland
"I dream of eradicating religion of this world" If you heard a religious person say that he wanted to "eradicate" all conflicting viewpoints, you would assume he was a dangerous bigot, and you would be right. I'm sure your bigotry is much more enlightened though.
"There are brilliant people of faith , who could be so much more brilliant if their faith didn't get in the way of their contributions to humanity."
The above statement is one of many examples of atheist dogma. There is no evidence whatsoever that religious intellectuals would magically become "more brilliant" if they didn't have any faith. For people like Pascal, Einstein and Francis Collins, faith and science are sides of the same coin. What has Dawkins ever contributed?
He's written a number of books, the vast majority of which are only nominally concerned with science or biology. He is a mediocre scientist at best. He perhaps could have been more than that if he hadn't devoted his energies to tearing down the people he hates.
"Faith already has a high enough body count. Don't add to it."
I'll ignore for the moment that you implied that faith would be to blame for an atheist murdering a theist.
Atheism's body count is estimated at between 60,000,000 and 100,000,000. If you didn't know that, then I suggest you read up on the Cultural Revolution, French Revolution, the Killing Fields, and the history of the USSR. Then you can marvel about that little detail being left out of the dogma of public education.
The above statement is one of many examples of atheist dogma. There is no evidence whatsoever that religious intellectuals would magically become "more brilliant" if they didn't have any faith. For people like Pascal, Einstein and Francis Collins, faith and science are sides of the same coin. What has Dawkins ever contributed?
He's written a number of books, the vast majority of which are only nominally concerned with science or biology. He is a mediocre scientist at best. He perhaps could have been more than that if he hadn't devoted his energies to tearing down the people he hates.
"Faith already has a high enough body count. Don't add to it."
I'll ignore for the moment that you implied that faith would be to blame for an atheist murdering a theist.
Atheism's body count is estimated at between 60,000,000 and 100,000,000. If you didn't know that, then I suggest you read up on the Cultural Revolution, French Revolution, the Killing Fields, and the history of the USSR. Then you can marvel about that little detail being left out of the dogma of public education.
As always, Science answers the question of how to contribute to humanity, Faith answers the question of why.
Heya, buddy. How's that thread necromancy treatin' ya?Capslockbroken said:
But what the hey, I'll bite.
What's ignorant about what I had to say? Being something of a (for lack of a better word) fan of the Phelps cult, I know a thing or two about their interpretation of the Bible, and their take on Christianity. It's five-point Calvinist -- the most important aspect of which, at least to their cult, is the fact that God has chosen who is going to heaven and to hell, long before a person's birth. They also put a lot of weight on the parts of the Bible that tell them to praise God in all things, and to make a joyful noise -- which they do via their pickets of everything from Matt Shepard to Twitter. Oh, they also seem to have some interest in the biblical law about homosexuality, or so I hear.
Let's compare that to the gun-nuts in the U.S. Now, it's important, I think, to define exactly whom I'm talking about: I am no anti-gun sissy liberal (JOKE). I am a gun-loving macho liberal. I have a couple handguns, a little (actually fairly large (6") for a) .22LR [http://www.berettausa.com/products/u22-neos/] that I use for plinking, and a Colt .45 / 410 Shot hand-cannon [http://www.taurususa.com/product-details.cfm?id=638&category=Revolver&toggle=tr&breadcrumbseries=41] for defense. No, I don't ever expect to use such a desperate measure, but it's good to have in case of desperate times. I am a far cry from a gun enthusiast, let alone a nut.
The people I'm talking about when I talk about the gun nuts, are the deeply conservative "faith warrior" types: the kinds of people who used to go to tea party rallies, before they learned that there was a difference between cultural and fiscal conservatism. Folks like Rick Santorum, Rush Limbaugh, The Ultimate Warrior, Pat Robertson, and their followers and ilk. These are people filled with hate for "the gays," and the kind of despicable troglodytes who blame the victims when gays get battered or worse. These people are absolutely down the the Message of the Phelps cult; the only thing they disagree with, is the method and, in many, many cases, I'm sure, the anti-military message that often comes as a result of the many pickets at soldiers' funerals.
Tell me, sir, exactly what you think is so ignorant about that assessment.
No, sir.Capslockbroken said:
Certainly, science answers the 'how,' but the why is not answered by faith or anything like it. Do you think that people are worth keeping alive? Do you think that it's best if we can live in a society in which people do the most good and the least harm? If that's the case, then good. You're a decent human being.
But that didn't take faith.
What it took was compassion, and compassion is no more a part of faith, than it is a part of science. Compassion is empathy expanded, and it's the basis -- or at least it should be the basis -- of any decent set of laws. It's saying, "I want to live as comfortably as possible, without others obstructing my rights; in the interest of fairness, then, I must agree not to obstruct the rights of others." There's no need for faith in that situation at all -- just decency and compassion, and those things are certainly not necessary elements of faith.