Western traditional Animation (is it dead?)

[Vault101]

Now please let me explain[/B]

this is my veiw on the topic I may not be right buts its just how I see things at the moment

Now western animation, specifically CGI is huge, not only from the guys at pixar but other filmakers are stepping up and creating great films, bascially better than your typical "talking animal+obnoxious celebrity voice+pop culutre reference" type thing and I feel things are going to get better, we may see the day where a big mainstream animated film is made specifically for adults

but thats not what Im talking about here, I talking about traditional animated..2d stuff, which as far as films go is kinda dead here in the west,

Now I think this is for two reasons which complement each other

1. Disney
2.The public perception that "cartoons" are for kids

thease things go hand in hand

1. Dont get me wrong I think disney is awsome[/B] and they have created amazing films, in fact they are a benchmark of great animation, but the thing about disney is that their main Scource material was usually "fairy" tales,

basically disney was always targeted towards kids, which isnt bad though, in a way it would have prevented them from pushing any boundaries, and even if they did in the slightest the Moral gaurdians were there to give them a flaming

now this wouldnt be such a problem if it wasnt for the fact that

Disney had a completle monopoly over Traditionally animated films and were huge- which ment that it was practially ingrained in the public perception that animated=cartoon =disney =kids and so alot of other animated films seemed to copy the disney formula or usually an animated film wouldnt be targeted soley to adults (of coarse there were exceptions)

so it makes me think that things could have been different had there been more animated films that werent disney and that were more mature

bascially the point im making is that disney was so ingrained on peoples idea of animated films that anythign that wasnt disney or didnt follow disney formula didnt do so well

Now in regards to computer animation I think mabye things are where they are today because of how good PIXAR are and when shrek came around and basically said "fuck you" to the whole idea of disney it set the formula for CGI movies that I mentioned before

oh and for some reason around the turn of the century no one liked disney movies anymore, Not sure why mabye shrek had somthing to do with it

also its not liek disney did try, take Atlantis it was ambitious and a cool film but many people point out that its problem is it dosnt shake off the "kiddy-ness" and try nad be serious, similar to Titan AE which didnt know what direction it wanted to go


so to sum it all up I think that if there were filmakers in the west that were willing to push boundaires with traditionaly animated films and pick up the reins after disney said "fuck this" and went off to do direct to video seaquels then we would be seeign more traditionaly animated films on the big screen

so what do you think? some truth there or am I just talking crap? also yeah I know I only focused on America

 

[Fiz_The_Toaster]

I see where you are getting at, and it's true that people have this perception of Disney and the image that they portray, i.e. for kids. They still make animated films, Princess and the Frog, I think that's what it's called, but they are reanimating their older films and re-releasing them. I know they are making more live-action films, and get more attention that way.

PIXAR is doing a good job where Disney left off, but I don't know how far they will go before someone else picked up where they left off. 2D animation may not die anytime soon, but CGI movies will be around for quite a while, before some other company comes up with something else.

I don't know where else you can go with animated films outside of better technology and making the CGI less "kiddie" and more realistic and having it marketed to both adults and kids, so kinda like what Shrek did.

 

[SenorNemo]

It's kind of late, so this response probably won't be particularly salient or even readable.

I've noticed this too, and America is one of the very few nations in which this attitude towards dramatic stories in animation is prevalent. In Europe, South America, and (of course) East Asia, you see the medium of animation being used as it should, to express things and ideas impossible or very difficult to do in live action. It's frustrating to see shows like Cowboy BeBop and Neon Genesis Evangelion doing things that American shows - live action or animated - almost never do in terms of characters, setting, visual style, and exposition.

I'm not sure that your analysis is complete though. Animation is accepted as a mainstream, mature medium in America, but only in comedy. Shows like, for instance, The Simpsons use animation very well in visual hyperbole and counterpoints that would be very hard to reproduce in live action. I can sit down with my parents to enjoy an episode of The Simpsons and not feel self conscious, whereas when we watched, for instance, Cowboy BeBop, I felt like the show was evidence being admitted into some grand trial of animation. A lot of analyses don't mention comedic animation in America, but I've yet to find any foreign animation that consistently reaches anywhere near the creativity of some western shows (shows like Azumanga Daioh do have their moments, of course). Culture, however, may play a very big role in that.

As for a lack of interest or acknowledgement of anything outside comedy in animation, I'm thinking the big turning point was some time during the fifties and later. Before that, animation around the world had been evolving in almost exactly the same way. Heck, anime had its origins with American films and art styles, being absorbed into Japanese culture directly after the second world war. Much the same thing happened in France, where the comic also developed to be much more respected than in America.

I've read texts and attended lectures on the subject, but right now I can't seem to formulate a good picture of how Disney became how it is, but it worked roughly like this I think: Disney became a cultural institution -> Disney movies began to be exaggerated versions of themselves -> Any innovation Disney once had stagnated, and nobody with enough influence inside could do anything about it, and no other studios could get a solid foothold -> Dramatic animation in America goes comatose.

Of course, the market is much more open now, and the moral guardians no longer have as tight a grip on the leash. Maybe at some point during our lifetime there'll be a few breakout examples of American animation used for something other than comedy and we'll see a resurgence.

On a tangent, I've never seen Titan A.E, even though I've had the DVD for who knows how many years.

 

[FalloutJack]

Well, I dunno about dead, but I think it took a hard hit once Megas XLR was cancelled.

 

[tobi the good boy]

Well, I dunno about dead, but I think it took a hard hit once Megas XLR was cancelled.

*tear runs down face*

You dig giant robots
I dig giant robots
We dig giant robots
Chicks dig giant robots

 

[BonsaiK]

traditional animated..2d stuff, which as far as films go is kinda dead here in the west

so what do you think? some truth there or am I just talking crap? also yeah I know I only focused on America

Probably true. Fortunately that's only in America as you say. Other countries in the world don't really care less - they don't have the budget to do America's big CGI productions, so animated stuff still gets produced. In fact labour-intensive but cheap traditional animation styles have huge practical advantages, especially in countries where the ruling reigime won't allow you to make a feature film with real actors by traditional means, especially one which may be seen as critical to the government:


Or when challenging subjects that couldn't be shown in traditional film format without offending people's sensibilities need to be discussed, animation can be used to tackle those subjects without putting real people in real danger:


Traditional animation isn't dead, it's just been offshored to countries who actually care.

 

[Vault101]

traditional animated..2d stuff, which as far as films go is kinda dead here in the west

so what do you think? some truth there or am I just talking crap? also yeah I know I only focused on America

Traditional animation isn't dead, it's just been offshored to countries who actually care.

wow that princess trailer looks.....very interesting is that russian or sweedish?

off too imdb right now!

 

[BonsaiK]

Traditional animation isn't dead, it's just been offshored to countries who actually care.

wow that princess trailer looks.....very interesting is that russian or sweedish?

off too imdb right now!

Danish. Not wanting to give too much away but the film has scenes which could never have been made with live actors without breaking laws. Definitely one of the best animated films I've seen in years, its only flaw is that it's a bit short.

 

[Bags159]

Well, I dunno about dead, but I think it took a hard hit once Megas XLR was cancelled.

*tear runs down face*

You dig giant robots
I dig giant robots
We dig giant robots
Chicks dig giant robots

I loved that intro.

 

[Lunaras13]

eventually comic book companies like DC and Marvel will make more cartoons (young justice is pretty good so far) and we might see the same thing as in Japan with manga and anime come to America. we already have a shit ton of original source material, and every time comics come out with something that introduces people to a character they dont need the 30+ years of backstory, they make a profit. It's just a matter of time before they either figure that out and succeed, or figure that out and it turns out we Americans are too stupid to like it

 

[Jack and Calumon]

In turns of films, maybe but TV got a kick of life from 1 show that has become UNGODLY popular, and will probably inevitably get a movie.

Spoiler: I refer, of course, to...

The ponies are coming...

Also, I agree to a degree, but not to the point that 2D animation is dead over here. We do like our CGI, but it's not dead. Why, I believe there's a 2D animated Winnie the Pooh movie coming out and looks awesome.

Though it does seem that you're focused a lot on Disney. They represent a huge part, yes, but they aren't everything. Again, look at the Winnie the Pooh 2011 movie trailer on Youtube. It's there, and it looks cool.

Calumon: He makes me wish I had some honey.

 

[Bags159]

I don't think that show is so popular outside of this site and 4chan. That or everyone outside of this site and 4chan are closet-fans.

 

[Saelune]

Maybe in movies, but not TV. Adult Swim is here to stay.

 

[WolfThomas]

Avengers : Earth's mightiest heroes begs to differ. Oh films, well one could say Computer animated films are just a subset of Western Animation.

 

[Not G. Ivingname]

I think it mostly depends on how well the new Pooh movie does.

If it can show that people want to see 2D animated films again and not just more carbon copies of Pixar films, then don't be surprised to see a new wave of 2D film animation.

I think the time is just right for their return.

As for it on TV... well...

My Little Pony is sucking up the 4-10 girls and the 18-30 men demographics

 

[Lilani]

Disney is getting back to its roots, now that Michael Eisner is out of the picture and John Lasseter is at the helm of their animation department. I think it's far from dead. The only difference is now it's got a lot more competition (computer animation, for example).

And cartoons have always been thought to be a "kiddie" sort of genre, which is mostly due to its roots as being sort of a "moving comic strip." Some people will always feel that way about them, but at this point in time I think that's sort of an outdated excuse. With things like Family Guy, the Simpsons, and the Disney films from the late '80s and mid '90s (which are still universally loved by adults today), there are plenty of people who are open to the idea of animated films and shows being "mature" enough for them.

No, it's not dead by a long shot. It's just a lot more spread out now. It's no longer exclusive to us. "Western traditional animation" is just a small part of something much larger now, whereas when it was in its prime, it was the biggest contributor to the medium and set the standards.

 

[Chased]

The market for Western animation is very different from other areas of the world, such as Japan. If 2D animation was profitable then everyone in Hollywood would be doing it.