We've Seen The Future, And It's NSFW

[Wraith]

Sorry, but I really don't understand why 'it' would not be okay, while 'they' is.

Basically, "they" is for people, and if memory serves, in some languages using the plural form is respectful.
"It" is for rocks, chairs and other inanimate objects. People generally don't like being objects.

Are you sure? I find that I and a lot of people use it when referring to people of unknown gender.

It's not rare to know someone who is having a baby and ask them when is IT due or is IT a boy or a girl?

 

[Fsyco]

Sorry, but I really don't understand why 'it' would not be okay, while 'they' is.

]

You know, that page you linked to says that many see Cultural Appropriation as a sign of acceptance, so maybe it isn't so bad. Although seriously, don't most trans people use 'he' or 'she', just not the one that they were born with? And what's wrong with using 'it' for people that don't want to use those two?

"It" is dehumanizing as all fuck. "They" is a perfectly acceptable substitute, unless you're the kind of terrible person who enjoys correcting people based on outdated grammatical rules that never really applied in the first place. (Seriously, don't be that guy. Nobody likes that guy.)

As for cultural appropriation, it's a much more complex subject than most judgement-happy tumblrites make it out to be. I guess the important thing to remember is that cultural appropriation involves a fundamental lack of respect towards the culture being imitated. Most invocations of the concept I've seen take it more than a wee bit too far. Dressing up as a Native American for Halloween is insulting. Having dreadlocks while being white is not.

Why is "It" dehumanizing? It's a perfectly functional gender-neutral pronoun. I refer to people of unknown gender as 'it' alot and they don't seem to mind. And even if it does, what is it going to do about it? *huehuehue* But seriously, maybe that should be the new social justice campaign: making "it" less 'dehumanizing' in everyday conversation. Or to make the concept of dehumanizing people less evil (my argument that one out of 7 billion is super tiny almost never works).

Also, I'm more of the guy who corrects people's outdated grammatical rules (like the whole 'don't end sentences with prepositions' thing is applying Latin grammar rules to English, and it's perfectly acceptable to do so). Since languages are living, changing things, it would be silly to nitpick rules like that.

Hey, I'm someone who uses they a lot and not it. It as a word alone would be fine for description, but unfortunately a lot of terrible people put "it" to use as a negative thing. The word has frequently been used not for people who identifying as both/neither female and male, but as a word for most trans people who only use male or female pronouns as a way to insult them and say their gender isn't legitimate and further use it to imply they're subhuman and should be treated like garbage (or worse). It has been used as an abusive word for other groups of people too (particularly in people abusing children). They doesn't have that same history of use behind it which is why that's used in language more frequently.

There actually have been a few attempts to retake it and slam people using the word as an insult too! It just hasn't gained as much ground on that.

If someone born male wants me to call it "she" then that's fine with me, and vice versa, but I don't really see a problem with calling people in general "it". And if 'They' is working fine for everyone else, why the need for new pronouns in the first place?
I also can't think of any instances of people using 'it' as a major slur, and the only association with child abuse is with that one book that seems to have fallen out of popular consciousness. And besides, with the population continuing to rise, maybe we can lax the standards on how we treat children.

 

[CaptainMarvelous]

why is everyone jumping on the Trans thing? They don't have a patent on demanding new pronouns.

I've had my rant about Gender =/= Sex/Sexual Identity and how in any language other than English the conversation rapidly becomes more and more meaningless. The only added pronoun that kinda made sense to me was the Xe one, kinda, if applied to Hermaphrodites because it's easier than S/He. Anything else is kinda self indulgent.

Bonus! Punchline was pretty funny.

 

[Fsyco]

why is everyone jumping on the Trans thing? They don't have a patent on demanding new pronouns.

I've had my rant about Gender =/= Sex/Sexual Identity and how in any language other than English the conversation rapidly becomes more and more meaningless. The only added pronoun that kinda made sense to me was the Xe one, kinda, if applied to Hermaphrodites because it's easier than S/He. Anything else is kinda self indulgent.

Bonus! Punchline was pretty funny.

I guess because tumblr and pronouns. Since demanding new pronouns is associated with trans people, when in actuality its any special little snowflake that wants attention. It is really weird how these kinds of threads go towards that, though. Maybe because it's a hot button issue?

 

[JimB]

I want to marry that woman. Hell, I'll take her surname even!

You mean you'll take that ************'s name. Quit oppressing Erin with your tyrannical insistence on gender-defined pronouns. Just because she's not real doesn't mean she doesn't suffer from your bi-chromosomal facism.

 

[Andy of Comix Inc]

hello i am critical miss and today i am going to make fun of trans and intersex people

 

[wulf3n]

I want to marry that woman. Hell, I'll take her surname even!

You mean you'll take that ************'s name. Quit oppressing Erin with your tyrannical insistence on gender-defined pronouns. Just because she's not real doesn't mean she doesn't suffer from your bi-chromosomal facism.

"Not real" is an offensive term. That ************ is existentially challenged.

 

[KOMega]

hello i am critical miss and today i am going to make fun of trans and intersex people

Oh come on, I thought we went through this already.

It's not even really riffing on anyone.
And if it were it's totally those people on insisting to use silly pronouns like "leaf/leafs/leafself".

Which I think we are smart enough to differentiate between those who are choosing between actual gender pronouns.

One is gender based and the other one is thinking you were Treebeard in a past life.

I will say one thing about Tumblr. I'm impressed that they were able to take the word "pronoun" and make it feel so controversial and more complex than it is.

 

[DjinnFor]

You need this I think. Bloody people get so hung up over the "rules" of language. You do realize they are made up as we go right?

You do realize that flouting established norms of communication for shits and giggles will guarantee that you fail to actually communicate with people? It's like trying to shop for groceries at a hardware store; you aren't going to get what you want.

Just because it's made up as you go along doesn't mean people can't demand a little sense and consistency.

Who really cares if someone wants to do that? Or, more to the point, why do you care?

Because in the hypothetical under discussion, this individual is making demands of other people. So, as to "who really cares", I would imagine the answer is "everyone who ever talks to this person".

A classic example. That you can find on multiple web pages. Attributed to multiple people.

It may not be satire per se, but it looks from every appearance like it's not sincere.

Well if you're looking for examples, you'll find plenty of them in this youtube series [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hR8ADuqrGx8].

Finally. Someone had the guts to stand up and say what needed to be said. I don't know where these people are getting the idea that JGC is making fun of Trans people, because they aren't the ones saying this stuff. It's the self-righteous, special snowflake, "I deserve to be entitled because WAAAAAAAAH!!!!" idiots that are doing all of this. The people who go onto Tumblr and make up or fake having a mental illness, or social problem, just for the attention.

For example: Nearly every time I go onto Tumblr, I never fail to see the overly aggressive LGBT people or Gender Fluids constantly harassing people. And hell, they even do this to their allies, saying that, "because you aren't like us, you can't support us, because you have no idea what it's like". They repeatedly attack people or shame people for being white male cis. And it confounds me. Why? Why would you treat people the way you've been treated? Especially the people that want to help you? And they say, "We have the right, because we've been treated like this, so we can do whatever we like". Meanwhile, they scream EQUALITY, and don't really mean it. Hell, they don't want equality. They want to be better. They think they're better.

Related to that, I find the surest way to spot entitled and privileged people are people who cry "check your privilege" or complain about entitlement.

People who have faced genuine discrimination or hardship in their life know that the world doesn't revolve around them and isn't going to change for them just because they demand it. They look inward and ask themselves how they can change the way they react and behave in order to improve the response from their environment, instead of expecting their environment to accommodate them.

 

[lacktheknack]

hello i am critical miss and today i am going to make fun of trans and intersex people

Point to where he did that.

Oh? He didn't?

Well.

Ridiculous pronouns doesn't mean intersex. As previously noted, it can also refer to attention whores referring to themselves as "ship".

 

[KisaiTenshi]

I for one believe in equal treatment for all humans, including comedic treatment. I'm sorry you feel differently.

Its not about "equal treatment", its about who, and more importantly why they're a target for comedic effect.

You can make fun of a transgender person. They're like anybody else. If you're making fun of them because they're transgender, however, you're a dick. You can very acceptably make a joke at the expense of war veteran with both physical and psychological scars. However, its not okay to make a joke about that veteran because of those physical or psychological scars. Its why most people were okay with all the jokes at John McCain's expense in the 2008 election until SNL did a sketch that mocked his inability to raise his arms - a handicap due to the fact that he was held and tortured as a POW for years.

I should've been more clear. Its not that nobody is off limits. Its that attacking people for certain reasons is the unacceptable behavior.

The problem with tumblr is the SJW phenomenon that taints the seriousness of using the reblog mechanism, which is why the entire pronoun and labeling nonsense exists. Transgender people just happen to be the most visible representation of everything that tumblr is criticized for. Narcissism runs unchecked on Tumblr. Everyone wants to be an oppressed snowflake so they can vent their slactivism in anger.

https://www.glaad.org/reference/transgender

NAMES, PRONOUN USAGE & DESCRIPTIONS

-Always use a transgender person's chosen name.
-Whenever possible, ask transgender people which pronoun they would like you to use.
-If it is not possible to ask a transgender person which pronoun he or she prefers, use the pronoun that is consistent with the person's appearance and gender expression.

The recent Facebook and Tumblr changes enable the third point.

There's kinda three rules for making fun of something and not catching flack for it:
a) Everything is fair game. There are no sacred cows. (Including yourself)
b) Don't make the victim/victimization be the punchline
c) Look in a mirror. (eg, does this look bad coming from you? Think about who you is following/friends with you. Think about what law enforcement would think with only the context of your joke.)

If you live in 'merica then free speech is a free license to hurt people with words. It is never a joke to threaten someone, because that is you making someone a victim, even if you have no intention of carrying out the threat. "It's only a joke" is a cowards defense against taking responsibility for the consequences.

Unless someone presents you with a pronoun/label to use, you're pretty much stuck with using "they" or their name. If they want to treated as an extraterrestrial by picking confusing or unpronounceable pronouns then that's their own business. Don't expect anyone to take those pronouns seriously then. It will always be seen as being a dick to someone if you use a pronoun opposite from what they want. So the safest way is to just use "they", as it has no opposite.

 

[Branindain]

Don't forget the autistic genius. That one was actually really popular in the gaming community for a while. Seriously, like half of the people on gaming forums would claim to be autistic. It was terrible, and quite possibly marginalized actual autistic individuals. :\

Very true, though I'm never sure whether or not to include autism under the mental illness banner. Some autistic people I've spoken to have had no problem doing so, while others have been very much against it.

Regardless, you're right in that the behaviour is the same.

As someone who has Asperger's, while it can certainly be a huge hindrance to have it sometimes, I don't think "illness" is the right word for it because it isn't something you can catch, or treat, it's just a function of how your brain develops. It's who you are. Some other mental illnesses could be like that too I suppose, but illness just seems like a misnomer in that case.

 

[nyysjan]

On the third panel the guy says "I need that ************ to sign some insurance papers."
Why is he using a pronoun there?
The sentence structure does not work.
Just try replacing it with any other pronoun, it just sounds silly.

That's because ************ doesn't work as an actual pronoun in any proper sentence. Thus, characters who speak in complete sentences would need to use "that ************."

************ works perfectly well as a pronoun, the other character seems to have no problems using it as one.
And if the character saying "I need that ************ to sign some insurance papers." just dropped "that" out of the sentence, it would work just fine, whether or not ************ is a pronoun or not.

Ashley has no problem using it because he doesn't use it in a grammatically correct sentence. "************ is x" would only work if ************ is a proper name. The reason I use "that ************" as a pronoun phrase is because in the sentence, "I need X to X," it would sound more like a proper name than a pronoun.

But if we accept ************ as a pronoun (and if they don't, why use it?), then "************ is X", is grammatically correct just like "she is X" would be.

And while the second guy might be grammatically incorrect in his statement of "************ is X" if ************ is not a pronoun, it is still not an awkward statement, and works is conversational usage whether or not ************ is a pronoun or not, while the first guy is only not awkward if ************ is not a pronoun.

I think you're over analyzing the joke. Trying to use "************" as a pronoun is like trying to fit the square peg in the round hole. You -could- do it but it looks really awkward. It feels fundamentally wrong. The word is not meant to be used that way, and isn't built in such a way that is conducive to pronoun useage. Pronouns are short and snappy, while "************" is large and draws attention to itself. It's like if the one of the guys from Assassin's Creed replaced the dagger of his hidden blade with a full-sized claymore.

Yes, ************ is not, usually, a pronoun, and therefore not built like one.
But if you are going to use it as a pronoun, you should do it properly.

Also, Assassin's Creed with a claymore sounds awesome (it's not like he isn't already pulling all the attention with that getup).
Never played it though, so can't say how much the gameplay would improve (or not) with the addition of claymores (be it swords or mines).

************ works perfectly well as a pronoun, the other character seems to have no problems using it as one.
And if the character saying "I need that ************ to sign some insurance papers." just dropped "that" out of the sentence, it would work just fine, whether or not ************ is a pronoun or not.

Ashley has no problem using it because he doesn't use it in a grammatically correct sentence. "************ is x" would only work if ************ is a proper name. The reason I use "that ************" as a pronoun phrase is because in the sentence, "I need X to X," it would sound more like a proper name than a pronoun.

But if we accept ************ as a pronoun (and if they don't, why use it?), then "************ is X", is grammatically correct just like "she is X" would be.

And while the second guy might be grammatically incorrect in his statement of "************ is X" if ************ is not a pronoun, it is still not an awkward statement, and works is conversational usage whether or not ************ is a pronoun or not, while the first guy is only not awkward if ************ is not a pronoun.

On the third panel the guy says "I need that ************ to sign some insurance papers."
Why is he using a pronoun there?
The sentence structure does not work.
Just try replacing it with any other pronoun, it just sounds silly.

That's because the equivalent 'normal' word in this context, would be "woman".

"I need that woman to sign some insurance forms."

It makes grammatical sense, but it's a bit rude.


The proper word to use here would be "her", and get rid of the "that".

"I need her to sign some insurance forms."

But the problem with this is that there is no equivalent; as "her" is to "woman", no such equivalent word exists for "************" to be used in this context, hence the "that".

Now that's just silly, "woman" is not a pronoun.
And as 2nd panel established "************" as a pronoun, using "************" in place of "woman" is just silly.

As for over analyzing, well, you can't make much of a meal out of an animal not skinned.
So no, i am not over analyzing it, i am dissecting it for every last shred of humor it contains.

 

[PBMcNair]

Sorry, but I really don't understand why 'it' would not be okay, while 'they' is.

Basically, "they" is for people, and if memory serves, in some languages using the plural form is respectful.
"It" is for rocks, chairs and other inanimate objects. People generally don't like being objects.

Are you sure? I find that I and a lot of people use it when referring to people of unknown gender.

It's not rare to know someone who is having a baby and ask them when is IT due or is IT a boy or a girl?

Obviously, I can't speak for the planet, that's just how I've always seen things. You are right about babies though, I've never heard someone use they. Maybe that's because they would be reserved for twins ? I've just always found "it" to be impersonal at the best of times.

 

[Fsyco]

As for over analyzing, well, you can't make much of a meal out of an animal not skinned.
So no, i am not over analyzing it, i am dissecting it for every last shred of humor it contains.

Analyzing a joke is like dissecting a frog; nobody is really interested in the first place, and the thing is dead when you're done.

Don't forget the autistic genius. That one was actually really popular in the gaming community for a while. Seriously, like half of the people on gaming forums would claim to be autistic. It was terrible, and quite possibly marginalized actual autistic individuals. :\

Very true, though I'm never sure whether or not to include autism under the mental illness banner. Some autistic people I've spoken to have had no problem doing so, while others have been very much against it.

Regardless, you're right in that the behaviour is the same.

As someone who has Asperger's, while it can certainly be a huge hindrance to have it sometimes, I don't think "illness" is the right word for it because it isn't something you can catch, or treat, it's just a function of how your brain develops. It's who you are. Some other mental illnesses could be like that too I suppose, but illness just seems like a misnomer in that case.

Seconded. It doesn't feel like an illness, it just feels like the way you are. Personally, I don't like it being called an 'illness' because that makes people want to pity you. And pity and attention from strangers for me is like Mike Tyson on an angry bear suddenly showing up and claiming I owe him money.

 

[nyysjan]

As for over analyzing, well, you can't make much of a meal out of an animal not skinned.
So no, i am not over analyzing it, i am dissecting it for every last shred of humor it contains.

Analyzing a joke is like dissecting a frog; nobody is really interested in the first place, and the thing is dead when you're done.

Oddly, i find that the most amusement i get out of most jokes, comes from dissecting them.
Just like here, the strip itself was, somewhat amusing, but the discussion on the usage of the word ************ as a pronoun, has been lot more entertaining (and lasted longer).

 

[MaxwellMouse]

Way to make light of people who actually would need that feature on tumblr. Those pronouns are not just made up and they actually define people and having them is inclusive. You trivializing that is way uncool.

 

[Megalodon]

Listen, guys, I'm sure it's all meant in good fun and you're mostly targeting the people who do ridiculous stuff, but you're lumping the assholes and lunatics in with actual transgender people. Even if you've decided to just assume that tumblr is full of nonsense, you should at least appreciate that you're punching down.

We like to think we punch in every direction. Like a starfish.

A starfish made of fists.

While the comic itself was funny, this comment made me laugh just as hard. Well done sir.

 

[scienceguy8]

Hey, guys who think this is insensitive to transgender people? Could I point out something?

Erin has taken to calling herself a motherfu*er. In the last panel, she is seen as acting like a complete, bada55 motherfu*er.

If someone I knew as biologically male called himself female, I'd see her as a women from then on out, much like how now that Erin has called herself a motherfu*er, we see her as a motherfu*er. The comic is not making fun of the power of the pronoun. If anything, it is showing off its awesome power to transform how we look at others, and taking it to its penultimate, pyrotechnic-fueled point. The comic is not making fun of transgender people, but rather pointing out how a simple word use changes the way we see people and how that could make transgender people feel more comfortable in their own skin. At least, that is what I got out of this comic, along with a couple hearty chuckles.

I'm afraid I have yet to read the tread it its entirety, but if someone, especially a transgender person has made a compelling counter argument, then I apologize preemptively for being wrong.

 

[Nyaliva]

I so wish that this was acceptable. It could work so well in a close-nit office scenario.