What are great games that are flawed masterpiece?

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FakeSympathy

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There are a lot of great games out there considered masterpiece by many people. But it is my belief that no game is without fault. Any games that seems to be great always has the ***** in its shining armor. In your opinion, what are some games that are flawed yet well-made games?

IMO:
Bioshock Infinite: This is a great game, but it completely ditches the creepy atmosphere that the previous games were set in. Plus the whole parallel universe concept makes any players' head spin.

Dark Souls 2: Another great game. But compare to Demon's Soul and DS1 it falls just tad bit short. The areas are pretty standard with few exceptional areas that are cool, the boss fights feels uninspired, and the land of drangleic feels multiple directions shooting off from one point instead of having complex connections between each worlds.

Symphony of the night: Oh boy, i am going to get a lot of shits for this. SOTN is great, really. But there are two problems; First is that it follows dangerously close to Metroid gameplay of endless forks and block paths (Hence the term "Metroidvania") The second is almost all Castlevania games that followed after SOTN had Metroidvania formula. It would take 13 years after SOTN's release to break the Metroidvania mold with Lords of Shadow.

Dragon Age Origins: Quite possibly one of my favorite RPGs. But so much for being Dark Fantasy. As Yahtzee once said, "Dragon Age isn't dark fantasy, nor is it light, gray, avocado, or caffeine-free fantasy, it's just straight fantasy classic." It tries to be dark fantasy, but in the end, the game fails to do so. If you want dark fantasy, go play Witcher series
 

SlumlordThanatos

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Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic 2.

Mostly it was because it was unfinished and a lot of content was cut. Obsidian also didn't quite get to end the game the way she wanted to due to time constraints. That being said, the game is a brilliant, brutal deconstruction of the Star Wars universe that is easily in my personal Top 5.
 

Dizchu

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System Shock 2 is my second favourite game of all time, but I don't even think it reached its full potential. The ending was garbage, the last few levels were very rushed and the controls are floaty and weird. Oh, and the combat and graphics are awful. Sounds like 6/10 material, right?

It's a testament to how good the rest of the game is that even these critical flaws don't hold it back too much. Compare this to Bioshock Infinite which had much better control and combat and a great ending... but otherwise was just a bland shooter with nothing much going for it but its graphics and setting.
 

pookie101

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in before others mention it, but my answer would be alpha protocol.

stupid hacking minigame that you can thankfully never touch outside of the tutotial, pistol skill is so over powered it breaks the game( end of game boss dies in 2 shots thanks to it), poorly optimised in places and your character model gets hung up on corners sometimes.

that said its my favourite RPG and ive never played a game that shows the consequence of your actions better
 

DoPo

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SlumlordThanatos said:
Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic 2.

Mostly it was because it was unfinished and a lot of content was cut. Obsidian also didn't quite get to end the game the way she wanted to due to time constraints. That being said, the game is a brilliant, brutal deconstruction of the Star Wars universe that is easily in my personal Top 5.
Also one of my favourites. Not only was it a deconstruction of the Star Wars universe, but it also served as a wider commentary on RPGs and RPG tropes in general.

Others:

Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines - I cannot NOT mention this, seeing as it's my favourite game, and all. It's still be best vampire game as well as being the best Vampire game. It has great atmosphere, great voice acting, great and colourful characters. A really distilled World of Darkness feel that it captures the universe quite well without trying to overdo it. Moreover, the mechanics are interesting and rather distinct...even, when they shouldn't be - you get XP by doing quests, not by just randomly killing people. And a lot of the quests have several approaches to them - talking, sneaking, killing everybody - choice is yours. And this is where flaws do show up - towards the end of the game this starts to break down and there are more fight-y levels with less of a leeway. It's also what shows how engaging the rest of the game is, as the fight-y parts are the ones that are more boring than the rest of the game. There are also quite a lot of bugs and problems with the game that have plagued it from the beginning and some even persist today after literally years of fan made fixes. The Unofficial Patch [http://www.patches-scrolls.de/patch/4647/7/72004] is now at version 9.4 and has fixed most of the things that could be fixed - Wesp5 (current owner and lead of the UP) has said that he expects version 9.5 to be the last one released.

Arcanum: Of Steamworks and Magick Obscura - also one of my favourite games. Incidentally, also made by Troika games - the ones who were responsible for Bloodlines. It's an older title that is top down and...the UI is not as good as it could have been, let's say - it's a product of its time. That's not actually its problem, though - the UI works, it's just a bit obtuse in places. No, the game has problems with crashing, some bugs that persist even through it's own unofficial patch [http://terra-arcanum.com/drog/dest/uap.html] but also there are some problems with mechanics that are a bit outdated[footnote]for example, weapons break. Sure, they also do so in other games, but not with such frequency. There is a section in the game where you go in some caves and there is quite a lot of monsters there that wear out your weapons quite fast. It's quite a notorious quest since the lack of proper weapons makes it such a slog - not helped by the fact that the area is quite long as well. Best advice for there is to fill inventories with pipes and bats and other cheap weapons and just keep swapping them as they get destroyed.[/footnote] or broken[footnote]easy example - max out your Dexterity and you become a god. More dex gieves you more action points in battle and the more action points you have, the sooner you act. Capping an attribute gives you an extra bonus - for dex, that's more AP! You can literally start a combat and murder everything before they have a chance to react.[/footnote]. However, beyond those lies a beautiful game - the setting is quite distinct, even if a bit derivative - it's more or less D&D during the industrial revolution. Necromancer can travel in steam trains, half-ogres fly planes, and so on. I find it quite fascinating as it mixes the fantastic, the traditional magic and the steampunk. The gameplay allows for quite a lot of agency to the player - you can do various quests in various ways, you can also focus on technology or magick. You even have the freedom of killing everybody in the game and still finishing it. You don't like somebody who gives you a quest instead of revealing the information you need? Murder them right then and there, use Black Necromancy to summon and bind their soul and just command them to give you the information you need. The story itself I also find to be a masterfully told - follows the "chosen one" but also subverts expectations and throws a lot of murky situations for a game that has a good/evil meter[footnote]on a separate note: just look at it! [http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/arcanum/images/7/7a/Zanalurin.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20140619044106] It's the thing on the left hand side. It's an actual meter! I love how it's represented :)[/footnote].

Arx Fatalis: you may find a pattern emerges here. This game is also one of my favourites. And yeah, it's flawed. It seems I like games...that have an "r" in the name. Or maybe that are flawed yet have a lot to show despite it. One of the two. At any rate - Arx Fatalis is the first game by Arkane Studios, the ones who later created Dishonored. The game's story is a bit cliche where you play an amnesiac and there is a big evil that's about to destroy the world, also there are goblins and ogres and medieval level tech. Aside from those there are some bugs, some things that need more poilish, and some later quests are harder than they need to be only because it's not obvious what/how to go about them. Still, at any rate, the game has one of the best magic systems that I've played with - you cast spells by drawing runes on the screen. Different rune combinations give you different spells - Aam (Create) + Yok (Fire) lights up torches, Aam + Taar (Projectile) shoots a magic missle, Aam + Yok + Taar throws a fire ball. The combinations make sense, even if not all permutations are covered. You can pre-cast a limited number of spells and then just release them when you feel like it, like in combat. You could cast in combat but you have to manage it while avoiding getting your face being bashed in. It also just feels better to be a mage, as opposed to many other games - characters with high intelligence get to cast more complex spells (which consist of more runes) and can pre-cast more spells. Aside from the, frankly, brilliant magic system, the game offers multiple approaches to many situations and an interesting setting and story - it's all set in tunnels underground, since the sun of the planet stopped working and plunged the surface into bitter cosmic cold, hence why everybody fled underground. As I said, the story is a bit cliche with the big bad being the god of destruction trying to...well, destroy the world once and for all and your task being to stop that from happening. However, the world is fleshed out with the various factions doing their own things, races having their own interests, as well as a lot of NPCs having their own things to do and also, for its time it was amazing, but some had schedules! You'd go to the smith only to find that he has closed down his shop to go home and sleep. Quite cool.
 

Cryselle

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pookie101 said:
in before others mention it, but my answer would be alpha protocol.

stupid hacking minigame that you can thankfully never touch outside of the tutotial, pistol skill is so over powered it breaks the game( end of game boss dies in 2 shots thanks to it), poorly optimised in places and your character model gets hung up on corners sometimes.

that said its my favourite RPG and ive never played a game that shows the consequence of your actions better
So much Alpha Protocol. It's actually a really, really, really good game if you can just get around how buggy it can be. I can't help but think that it would have been one of those games that gets remembered in the same way the original Deus Ex is, if only it had been given another month or two of QA and balancing cleanup.
 

Tanis

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SotC:
The horse is such a horrid drunk that even Lindsay Lohan told it to law of the sauce.
O, and the horse lives at the end...my one moment of story based join ruined.
:/

ZOE2:
More of a personal failing, but that boss battle where you have the grab the other mech drives me nuts.
I've MAYBE beaten it, on my own, twice.
All get stuck there.
:hate:

Any game with non-skipable cut scenes.
 

The Wykydtron

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This would be where I mention Persona 4 but let's be honest here, Persona 4 is fuckin' perfection incarnate. No flawed masterpiece here.

I guess maybe BlazBlue? If you consider a crazy convoluted story a flaw? Man I listened to Hazama's original monologue at the end of Noel's Route in Continuum Shift Extend the other day in my replay on the PC version, I actually got most of it this time since I finally understand that prime field devices = what Lamda, Nu and Mu belong to (well Lambda is an imitation of one created on the side by Sector Seven fishing Nu's dead body out of the cauldron and making her into Lambda but whatever)

Then I had a discussion with a friend and my god the bullshit just mounts up... You have to divide everything that doesn't make sense by that god creature Takamagahara or whatever. Like how the good ending of Calamity Trigger somehow doesn't cause a time paradox because the Black Beast should never have been created due to the event that creates it being stopped (ah Calamity Trigger I see, very good ArcSys) but I guess Takamagahara kept the universe going just for continuity's sake. Maybe that's what caused the Continuum Shift?

Brb just going roll my head across my desk before I go insane.
 

DoPo

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Johnny Novgorod said:
We all remember the Xen levels at the end of Half-Life, I'm sure.
I liked the Xen levels. Sure, they had different pacing and atmosphere than the rest of the game, but isn't that the point of having actually alien world? If it played exactly the same as before, but you only swapped the backgdrop, I don't think it would have been as appropriate.
 

Silvanus

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I think I might describe Majora's Mask as a flawed masterpiece. Emphasis on the "masterpiece", though.
 

Johnny Novgorod

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DoPo said:
Johnny Novgorod said:
We all remember the Xen levels at the end of Half-Life, I'm sure.
I liked the Xen levels. Sure, they had different pacing and atmosphere than the rest of the game, but isn't that the point of having actually alien world? If it played exactly the same as before, but you only swapped the backgdrop, I don't think it would have been as appropriate.
I didn't dislike them either but I would've preferred them elsewhere other than at the end, where they felt against everything the game was bulding up to, and anti climactic. I appreciate the game's versatility and how it subtly morphs in and out of genres, but the finale is the wrong place for Xen.
 

remnant_phoenix

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All of the Legacy of Kain games (except for Blood Omen 2, which is just a straight-up terrible game) have clear, obvious gameplay and/or story flaws. However, the world and characters are so unique, well-written, and well-voice-acted that I have no reservation claiming that the Legacy of Kain saga (except Blood Omen 2) is a work of art.
 
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Vampire the Masquerade Bloodlines: Buggy as hell (fortunately fixed by the Wesp patches), and the end of the game goes from "TONS of options for resolving situations" to "FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT!". Still a fantastic modern supernatural game with lots of memorable characters and political infighting. There's a reason I've played the game about 7 times over the last 3 years. It's just THAT good.

Deus Ex (the original) and Invisible War: Both of them are clunky in various ways (DX 1 has that iffy looting system, for one, and Invisible war has the WORST implementation of Universal Ammo I have EVER seen in my life), but both of the are fantastic cyberpunk stealth shooters and I love them both. Still, Human Revolution equalled them while smoothing out all the dents, so that one takes the cake.

Xenoblade Chronicles: Two problems. One, if you do too many sidequests (like, if you find the quests in one area too fun and do them all), then the next chunk of the game becomes so easy it's boring. The game is best when it's a challenge. Which leads me to my second complaint. When you get to the end of the game, right after the huge climax that leads up to the final objective, there's a huge difficulty spike, and most of the level-appropriate sidequests vanish. And then there's a whole extra dungeon with little special about it, and TONS of sudden roadblocks in the form of locked doors or distant switches to hit. It REALLY kills the pacing near the end, which is a huge shame. If it weren't for those two complaints, this would be the game to dethrone Chrono Trigger and The World Ends With You from their shared throne of "best RPG ever".

Alpha Protocol: Really nifty game, lots of options, lots of choices, overall, it's amazing. ...It's also got an atrocious UI and a lot of bugs, and one incredibly badly designed boss fight, and a few other ones that are questionable.

The Magic Circle: This game is amazing. Open world puzzle game about ripping code out of enemies to steal their powers, and slap them onto other enemies to solve environmental puzzles?! Love it. But it's over almost too fast. They give you one major objective, and you think "Alright, I'm done with it, I'm going for the next 'boss' fight"...and then suddenly the game goes "Time for the grand finale! GOGOGO", and you're like "wait, what?! This isn't what I expected!" and then it goes "Oh, you thought that was the end of the game? Nope, time to change gameplay styles again! THIS time it's the finale!". Fortunately, it makes up for it with that phenomenal final segment, but...It just feels weird, you know?

Evochron Mercenary: This is a FANTASTIC space sim, with the most fun controls I've played in the genre. Roll pitch and yaw are all highly useful, and you can tap the space bar to turn on/off the Inertial dampener to allow for 100% newtonian physics, which is great for boosting up to max velocity, then switching the IDS off to coast without using up fuel. But, the trading has no real feedback to it, and while the various equipment you can use has tradeoffs so you're never sure what to put in your limited ship space, the various ship parts are all pure upgrades to one another. And while exploration is amazing and fun...There's no tangible reward for finding fun new places, and the in-game log system is horribly disorganized. I know at least that the "no reward for exploring" is being fixed for the sequel in the works, but no word on the rest.
 

Bobic

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Well, most people here seem to be talking about genuine classics of the gaming sphere, but my flawed gem of a game is my favourite game ever, and also one of the most flawed. Deadly Premonition! A gem so flawed a lot of people may misinterpret it as a lump of coal, but crack it open and climb inside and you'll see sparkles beyond that which most humans can even imagine.

Hyperbolic metaphor out of the way, the game is one of the most technically inept things I've ever played. Wonky controls, drunken driving, abysmal animation:


However, behind that veneer of ineptitude, is a protagonist so endearing, intriguing, quirky and weird, that were he existing in the real world, I'd have turned gay and proposed marriage on the spot. A world of baffling weirdness that was just the right level of off-kilter to keep me constantly amused. And a story that, no joke, affected me more emotionally than literally every other game I've ever played, despite, or perhaps because of, its quirky, humourous, offbeat nonsense. Blew my mind.


I suppose if you demand a commonly accepted classic, rather than the 'cult' variety, I'll just throw a vote for everything after Bioshock 1's mind shattering twist, or Deus Ex: Human Revolution's Boss fights, or the fact that Half Life 3 refuses to exist, or one of those other legitimate flawed classics.
 

PapaGreg096

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I nominate
Deus Ex Human Revolution: Great dialogue choices, stealth, game design and aesthetics but the boss fights and the ending really hurts it IMO. Still a great if but flawed game

Dishonored: One of the things that hurts this game is how short it was, how the pacifist powers are kinda boring, and Corvo being a silent protagonist.
 

Shoggoth2588

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PapaGreg096 said:
Dishonored: One of the things that hurts this game is how short it was, how the pacifist powers are kinda boring, and Corvo being a silent protagonist.
This game could have used more Mansion Masquerade levels (can't remember the name of that level). What was there was excellent but like you said, pacifists only really needed blink. Every other power seemed pointless if you went in passive.

---

Super Castlevania IV is probably the best of the pre-Metroidvania Castlevania games (it's my favorite at least) but it fails in one area; The original and Castlevania 3 deliberately limited your range and speed of motion. You were always powerful but you needed the extra items to pick up what little slack your Whip had. Not in Super Castlevania IV, where it's perfectly possible to complete the game with nothing more than your whip.

Donkey Kong 64 was one of the most loved games on that console but the flaw comes from the fact that (it seems like) you need to collect everything, absolutely everything, if you want to progress through the game completely. When I was a kid, I couldn't progress any further in the game because I couldn't get the Nintendo coin. As an adult I got both coins but am now stuck being unable to get some other collectible locked behind one of the mini-games (another flaw in that title). The big issue I have with DK64 is that other 3D platforming collectathons like Super Mario 64 and, Galaxy don't strictly require you to collect 100% of everything to get to the final boss and end credits. Also, going back, DK64 had some control issues that had little to do with the N64 controller...mini-games feel loose and sometimes seem to have input lag, that kinda thing.
 

Ihateregistering1

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Some have already been mentioned, but...

Bioshock: Infinite: Still a good game, but their decision to cut the RPG elements down to bare-bones level and adapt the "2 weapons at a time" approach felt like a step backwards. And as mentioned, the story gets a little too bonkers for me.

Arkham Knight: Still a fun game, but the Batmobile was just a terrible overall addition to the game, and it featured what was, without a doubt, the most disappointing boss battle I've ever encountered (those who played through know what I'm talking about).

Planescape: Torment: For as great as this game was, the combat was pretty awful. On the plus side, it was one of those RPGs where you could basically play through the whole thing without ever fighting.

Dark Souls 2: Yeah I honestly don't know what it was about this game. I played through Demon's Souls and Dark Souls multiple times, but after I beat DS2 I had zero interest in ever going back to it again.

PapaGreg096 said:
I nominate
Deus Ex Human Revolution: Great dialogue choices, stealth, game design and aesthetics but the boss fights and the ending really hurts it IMO. Still a great if but flawed game
Have you tried the Director's Cut? It drastically improves the boss battles.
 

RedDeadFred

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WolvDragon said:
There is no true perfection for anything, not for movies literature, music, and especially video games

The Witcher 3, which I consider one of my favorite games of all times, has it's own share of flaws. It boasts a great open, and living world, however how many times have we seen the same village reused with the same assets? It could've also used more variety with it's locations, nothing but forests sadly. And the main story does lose it's steam right around Act II, and some of your choices don't feel like they mattered much in the ending or post game.
I feel like the choices that did end up mattering for the actual ending felt kind of contrived, but I like how they did the other choices. They allowed them to tell more focused story arcs when they didn't have to worry about the choices always having impacts on the whole story. Choices were more often then not, just how a certain character's story ended. I think that was the right call on their part, but I can see how it could be frustrating.

Anyway, I would actually echo your choice. It's easily among my favourite games ever, but I think my biggest issue would have to be how the third act feels kind of rushed. That, coupled with the contrived nature of how you impact the ending (even though I got what I would consider to be my favourite of the endings on the first try), makes the ending not quite live up to the ridiculously high bar the rest of the game had set. Maybe I just don't get why throwing snowballs has big implications, but it felt kind of weird to me.

I'll also add, the past four Bathesda games. All are a ton of fun for just going off and doing what you want, but personally, I found all of their main stories to be pretty mediocre. Oblivion probably had the best story out of all of them, but it really sucked just being Martin's lacky.