What are your thoughts on glue traps?

[lacktheknack]

You are Apart of Nature.
and Nature is not all Double rainbows and Bubblegum lollypops.

Nature is not all horror, filth and shit either.

If you purposefully make life horror and filth and shit for another creature, then you ARE the shit that dirties what nature could be.

 

[Pyro Paul]

Depression is a physical condition not an emotional one.

Depression is a mental condition.

rats can feel depressed, but can it feel sad?

general answer no. to feel sad it has to be able to comprehend the gravity of actions.

The fact that a rat can get depressed from losing a cagemate is comprehension enough. Rats are very social animals - if you actually observe their behaviour, they are not as simple as you make them out to me.

Does it now?
and what does it say?

does it reflect the experience i've had in a medical ward and seeing some one infected with Plague?
does it reflect the an infectious 'rat bite' which hospitalized me for over a week when i was younger? Or the series of rather painful 'just in case' shots i had to have because of it?
does it reflect the fact that several people depend on my existance and well being?
does it reflect that the mental health of a particular girl is highly dependent on my good health?

Of course it does. You're practically condoning the painful torture of another animal, irrespective of how a random rat or flea impacted on your (or someone else's life) negatively.

Did the rat intend to make you miserable? No. Difference here is that you want to make an animal as miserable as possible because another animal had negative contact with other human beings. Hence the act of chucking a living mammal on a glue trap into the trash where it will die slowly and painfully has nothing to do with the situations you described above. So, why does any animal deserve that? Because you don't like it?

Using your bizarre reasoning, I am justified in treating you like crap because humans have caused a lot of death and misery to each other. BTW, I do not believe that people are dependant on you for their survival based on your poor arguments, lack of basic ethics, and incredibly terrible spelling.

acctually, yes. the rat does intend to do just that.
it is called survival.

why does any animal deserve that?
It increases my chance to survive.

is my reasoning bizarre?
not really, it is acctually rather sound all things considered.

are you justified in treating other humans like crap because of bad things other humans have done to you?
Yes... but of course you have your social values at adhere to, so for you... probably no.

you are welcome to believe what ever you want about me.
but because i put more value on humans then rats, i tend to be nicer to them.


Because this is also the internet Spelling is not dependent on understanding.
and honostly, why would i put more effort into a post that you're going to glaze over once then reply to? i could make it emaculate and comb over it for all the errors to make it perfect... and you'll just hit reply, type up some nonsense, then post quickly forgetting what i typed.

and besides, your posts are rife with typos and errors as well.

Let it die.
it is a pest that spreads death.

it has done so through out history and does so up unto this day.

So do humans. Intentionally, I might add. Guess I should start being mean to other people, hmmm?

How does it that it right to chuck a fully conscious animal, stuck on a glue trap, into your garbage bin, where it will slowly rip itself to pieces and starve to death? What is your defence for this? That another rat bit you, and that they are pests? Do you not see how extremely cruel and unnecessary that is?!

my defence?
i like my good health.
my survival.
and a little bit 'Who cares its just a rat'

sufficent for me.

 

[Mcface]

get a box trap, a cheezit inside, it goes in, the door closes behind it, it has some food to eat overn ight, and it's not hurt

 

[Pyro Paul]

the 'screaming' is usually best thought of as cursing.
high pitch sounds that are audable to humans denotes agression similar to a dogs bark.

Funny you're referring it to as "cursing" and "aggression" to try and downplay the suffering of the animal as much as possible. If you knew anything about rats, you'd realise that such screams are a signal that the animal is being hurt. A dog, cat, rabbit, human, etc will do the same thing.

acctually no, you see, pain is a shorter squeak for mice often in rapid succession, just how dogs 'yelp' when in pain, or cats 'reow' (honost to god, thats how a vet described it)

if you knew more about the subject you're talking about then perhapse you would know that.

 

[lacktheknack]

my defence?
i like my good health.
my survival.
and a little bit 'Who cares its just a rat'

sufficent for me.

Don't be surprised when people look more into the "who cares its just a rat" situation and hate you for it.

 

[Fargus]

Nature is not all horror, filth and shit either.

If you purposefully make life horror and filth and shit for another creature, then you ARE the shit that dirties what nature could be.

Well said.

If he makes the case that killing animals in incredibly painful and unnecessary ways is OK because they carry disease which *could* do the same to a careless human, then perhaps the argument could be made that he is stooping himself to their level by doing this? That he is no better than a rat?

 

[lacktheknack]

Nature is not all horror, filth and shit either.

If you purposefully make life horror and filth and shit for another creature, then you ARE the shit that dirties what nature could be.

Well said.

If he makes the case that killing animals in incredibly painful and unnecessary ways is OK because they carry disease which *could* do the same to a careless human, then perhaps the argument could be made that he is stooping himself to their level by doing this? That he is no better than a rat?

If he's a nihlist or "big picture" person (how I hate that line of thinking), then he'd probably say "Correct".

 

[Pyro Paul]

I thought this was going to be about gluing things down to piss people off. The first few lines looked that way, and when you said "mouse", i thought you meant computer mouse.

Fucking hell, could there be a more sick method out there?

Check out Pyro Paul's justification:

as to the disposal... i personally would of thrown it in the dumpster with little though. as inhumane that may make me... the verulient death and pestilence carried in varmits is not something i take lightly.

So instead of just killing the bugger so it is put out of its misery, he throws it in the garbage to suffer some more. Not going to even begin listing the excuses he uses for it... it's all in this thread, anyway.

oh, now for the scary bit.

I take killing very seriously.
if i kill something i Ensure its death.

covering it with a baggy and smacking it about is not sufficent.
if i where to 'crush it' as you did, i would open up the bag, and investigate it ensure that it is absolutely dead, its insides liquified and oozing out. to do this would expose me to said verulient death and pestilence i speak of.

so let me question this... how are you so certain your way is any more humane?
you hit it with your thermo... 'crushed' it.
but did you check to make sure it was dead?
after all, mice are acctually quiet resilent creatures capable of sustaining catastrophic physical damage.

you simply assumed you did the job and where content with your humane approche.

 

[infohippie]

no, you see... I am Human.

I for one am really starting to doubt that. If sombody can't empathise enough to want to minimise the suffering of our fellow mammals, or any animal really, I don't know that I'd care to call him "human." In fact, the word for someone who cannot empathise is "psychopath." I have kept pet rats for a long time and I can tell you from personal experience they are quite capable of feeling and showing pain, joy, excitement, anticipation, apprehension, curiosity and other emotions that were once thought to be the exclusive domain of humans. They have even shown, in scientifically controlled conditions, the ability to count and the ability to empathise with others. On this evidence alone, some rats might be more human than you.

the 'screaming' is usually best thought of as cursing.
high pitch sounds that are audable to humans denotes agression similar to a dogs bark.

Absolutely incorrect.

 

[Pyro Paul]

You are Apart of Nature.
and Nature is not all Double rainbows and Bubblegum lollypops.

Nature is not all horror, filth and shit either.

If you purposefully make life horror and filth and shit for another creature, then you ARE the shit that dirties what nature could be.

meh. i'm more chaos theoryish.

nature is all horror, filth, and shit.
it is a non-stop on going conflict as things vie for dominance over one another in the grand scheme of simply out lasting the next best thing.

'beauty' is an evolved defensive mechanism and acctually often is ment to say 'don't mess with me, i'm not healthy for you' that was eventually copy-catted by other species and so on and so forth.

 

[Fargus]

acctually, yes. the rat does intend to do just that.
it is called survival.

Intend to do what?

Intend to transmit disease because it knows how it has disease, and knows what a disease means?

Intend to chew your wires because it knows what the wires are for, and what will happen?

You make it sound like they have meetings with each other, planning for your misery and destruction. And make it sound like rats have the same cognitive functions as we do - as that is the only way possible if they are truly intending to cause you misery.

It increases my chance to survive.

How does throwing a live mammal stuck on super glue into the rubbish increase your chance for survival? How does humanely killing the animal, or putting out of its misery, decrease your chances of survival?

You could have just as well whacked the animal over the head with a hammer, but opted to let it suffer some more. All for survival, right?

is my reasoning bizarre?
not really, it is acctually rather sound all things considered.

Then treating you like crap because other humans have caused genocide, murder, rape, etc is sound reasoning. No, it's sociopathic reasoning.

are you justified in treating other humans like crap because of bad things other humans have done to you?
Yes... but of course you have your social values at adhere to, so for you... probably no.

So you have no social values then. The picture is getting clearer now.

you are welcome to believe what ever you want about me.
but because i put more value on humans then rats, i tend to be nicer to them.

So? I place more value in my family than I do the neighbour's dog, doesn't mean it's acceptable of me to impale it with a pitchfork.

Because this is also the internet Spelling is not dependent on understanding.
and honostly, why would i put more effort into a post that you're going to glaze over once then reply to? i could make it emaculate and comb over it for all the errors to make it perfect... and you'll just hit reply, type up some nonsense, then post quickly forgetting what i typed.

You consistently make spelling errors, and that impacts on your argument. They're not typos either. How am I supposed to take your understanding seriously when you can't even spell as well as a high school student?

and besides, your posts are rife with typos and errors as well.

Such as?

my defence?
i like my good health.
my survival.
and a little bit 'Who cares its just a rat'

sufficent for me.

As already mentioned, good health/survival has nothing to do with it. You're just being cruel and inconsiderate for the hell of it. And the "it's just a rat" line, I can turn it to "it's just Pyro Paul" and start abusing you because of it. Nevermind the underlying principle behind why that very reasoning is moronic and makes no sense in the first place.

 

[Pyro Paul]

no, you see... I am Human.

I for one am really starting to doubt that. If sombody can't empathise enough to want to minimise the suffering of our fellow mammals, or any animal really, I don't know that I'd care to call him "human." In fact, the word for someone who cannot empathise is "psychopath." I have kept pet rats for a long time and I can tell you from personal experience they are quite capable of feeling and showing pain, joy, excitement, anticipation, apprehension, curiosity and other emotions that were once thought to be the exclusive domain of humans. They have even shown, in scientifically controlled conditions, the ability to count and the ability to empathise with others. On this evidence alone, some rats might be more human than you.

the 'screaming' is usually best thought of as cursing.
high pitch sounds that are audable to humans denotes agression similar to a dogs bark.

Absolutely incorrect.

counting and running mazes does not denote emotion.
Simply said, remembering the best possible path to food is not an example of problem solving. further more, the precieved emotions and personifications you apply to a pet is not conclusive evidence to the animal having said emotions.

there is little conclusive evidence which denotes varmits of any type having any sort of empathy and most of the time any such feelings one may precieve are often 'by proxy' of the owner.


and again. the louder audiable 'screaming' noise mice make are often agressive factors. pain is often much shorter and reactionary to the affactor. general inter-communication tends to be less audiable to the human ear and come across as soft 'barely there' squeeks.

also to clarify, screaming is a continous tone lasting longer then 1 second.

 

[Fargus]

covering it with a baggy and smacking it about is not sufficent.
if i where to 'crush it' as you did, i would open up the bag, and investigate it ensure that it is absolutely dead, its insides liquified and oozing out. to do this would expose me to said verulient death and pestilence i speak of.

You don't need to open anything. Mice are so small and fragile that a sharp, forceful blow will kill it instantly. You are exposed to micro-organisms all the time, especially when near other humans, so that is no excuse (it's not like you're going to lick the trap clean, are you?) Perhaps you should live in a bubble if you're so paranoid about such things.

Besides, you are already exposing yourself for handling the trap anyway as faecal matter and urine will be all over the trap which is why the CDC don't recommend them - this very fact renders your BS 'survival' argument void.

so let me question this... how are you so certain your way is any more humane?
you hit it with your thermo... 'crushed' it.
but did you check to make sure it was dead?
after all, mice are acctually quiet resilent creatures capable of sustaining catastrophic physical damage.

Because something weighing a couple of kilos crushing something soft and squishy that weighs as much as your pinkie finger, with the amount of force an average adult arm could put out, would result in an instant death.

What a load of crap. Resilient? Mice are physically very fragile animals.

you simply assumed you did the job and where content with your humane approche.

No, it was done. At least I had good intentions, unlike yourself.

 

[lacktheknack]

You are Apart of Nature.
and Nature is not all Double rainbows and Bubblegum lollypops.

Nature is not all horror, filth and shit either.

If you purposefully make life horror and filth and shit for another creature, then you ARE the shit that dirties what nature could be.

meh. i'm more chaos theoryish.

nature is all horror, filth, and shit.
it is a non-stop on going conflict as things vie for dominance over one another in the grand scheme of simply out lasting the next best thing.

'beauty' is an evolved defensive mechanism and acctually often is ment to say 'don't mess with me, i'm not healthy for you' that was eventually copy-catted by other species and so on and so forth.

If you actually think that nature is a filthy, horrendous thing, then I can only conclude that you're A. inhuman, B. a misanthropic nihlist who desperately needs some perspective, C. horrendously ill-informed, or D. a psychopath. Or E. the world's most successful troll.

There's one flaw with your "beauty = deadly" conclusion: We're attracted to beauty, not terrified of it. If beauty is a sign of death, then we would have developed a terrible fear of it even before other organisms began copying. And how does that work anyways? Why is one thing beautiful in one way (a butterfly) while another is beautiful in another (a willow tree), while something else is beautiful in YET ANOTHER, UNCONNECTED way (the ocean on a calm day)? Why the hell would the ocean need to be pretty to threaten stuff? How do animals know what's beautiful? HOW THE HELL DOES THIS JUSTIFY LETTING A MOUSE RIP ITSELF APART!!?

 

[Pyro Paul]

actually, yes. the rat does intend to do just that.
it is called survival.

Intend to do what?

Intend to transmit disease because it knows how it has disease , and knows what a disease means?[/u]
Incorrect. The proper way to state this is:
Intend to transmit diseases because it knows it has one? Because it knows what a disease is?


Intend to chew your wires because it knows what the wires are for, and what will happen?
Incorrect. Should stated:
It intends to chew on your wires because it knows what wires are used for and what will happen if it chews on them?

You make it sound like they have meetings with each other, planning for your misery and destruction. And make it sound like rats have the same cognitive functions as we do - as that is the only way possible if they are truly intending to cause you misery.
Incorrect. There should be a Comma between 'misery' and 'and'

It increases my chance to survive.

How does throwing a live mammal stuck on super glue into the rubbish increase your chance for survival? How does humanely killing the animal, or putting out of its misery, decrease your chances of survival?
Query: Why is this separated by commas? It shouldn't be.

You could have just as well whacked the animal over the head with a hammer, but opted to let it suffer some more. All for survival, right?

is my reasoning bizarre?
not really, it is actually rather sound all things considered.

Then treating you like crap because other humans have caused genocide, murder, rape, etc is sound reasoning. No, it's sociopathic reasoning.

are you justified in treating other humans like crap because of bad things other humans have done to you?
Yes... but of course you have your social values at adhere to, so for you... probably no.

So you have no social values then. The picture is getting clearer now.

you are welcome to believe what ever you want about me.
but because i put more value on humans then rats, i tend to be nicer to them.

So? I place more value in my family than I do the neighbour's dog, doesn't mean it's acceptable of me to impale it with a pitchfork.
Fragment sentence. Revise.

Because this is also the Internet Spelling is not dependent on understanding.
and honestly, why would i put more effort into a post that you're going to glaze over once then reply to? i could make it immaculate and comb over it for all the errors to make it perfect... and you'll just hit reply, type up some nonsense, then post quickly forgetting what i typed.

You consistently make spelling errors, and that impacts on your argument. They're not typos either. How am I supposed to take your understanding seriously when you can't even spell as well as a high school student?
Unnecessary comma, Sentence structure incorrect. Consider Revising.

and besides, your posts are rife with typos and errors as well.

Such as?

my defence?
i like my good health.
my survival.
and a little bit 'Who cares its just a rat'

sufficient for me.

As already mentioned, good health/survival has nothing to do with it. You're just being cruel and inconsiderate for the hell of it. And the "it's just a rat" line, I can turn it to "it's just Pyro Paul" and start abusing you because of it. Never mind the underlying principle behind why that very reasoning is moronic and makes no sense in the first place.

And that was just light revisions.

But on to your points.

Point 1-
Not being copable does not remove intent.
Animals are in a constant conflict in an attempt to become more dominate then the other species it exists with on a planet. This conflict that animals participate in is through their own physical design and a product of their individual evolution. It is in this that animals fully intend to cause malicious harm to humans, another animal apart of their ecosystem. Case in point, the immunity to certain illnesses that are deadly to other species or the need to gnaw on something because of constantly growing teeth are evolutionary attributes of varmints which have lead to the malicious harm multiple species by varmints.

Point 2-
By not subjecting myself to the possibility of infection.
This point has been addressed in another post.

Point 3-
Welcome to the human race.
Humans have been mistreating each other ever since we have stood upright. I am actually some what interested; what Utopia do you live in now?

Point 4-
Welcome to comprehension 101.
Notice i stated: 'your social values'

the word 'your' denotes ownership, such as the values you hold.
In such a sentence, I did not postulate nor present my own personal values only that they differ from yours.

Point 5-
You are correct, just because you value your loved ones doesn't necessarily give you the right to impale dogs with pitch forks. But when presented with a threat in which the choice comes down to the safety of your loved ones or the life of a dog...

I presented the same thing. However, for a Rodent, a 'viable threat' i perceive is the possible illness I may obtain through the handling. Knowing of the effects and having first hand experience has further cemented my belief that the threat is tangible.

Point 6-
This post is fully edited and presented. I am more then certain that, though i took in excess of 20 minutes to produce this post, you and the average individual will simply take 2 minutes to scan the post then reply to it. Ontop of this you will have also replied to several other posts and bring about several other subjects that may very well alter how I may respond.

This raises the question as to why i would ever construct such an elaborate answer on a fast pased and fickle medium as an Internet Forum?

Point 7-
Revised your current post.
Corrections are italicized and underlined.

Point 8-
I have mentioned many a time that good health and survival have everything to do with it. I have even linked the CDC warning page on the possible illnesses communicable through rodents to humans. I have provided facts and statistics on how diseases are a viable risk to consider when handling wild mice and rodents. Why you disregard such information is beyond me and i can only assume that it is because you are adopting a 'holier-then-thou' stance on the matter to present yourself as some one that is 'morally right' compared to me.

 

[Pyro Paul]

No, it was done. At least I had good intentions, unlike yourself.

Hitler said the same thing.
Infact, most all genocidal tyranical leaders have all uttered these words.

It even has become a rather popular addage:
"The road to evil is paved with good intentions."

 

[M Rotter]

that is very cosmic actually, where i work has a new infestation of bats and we ve been finding them stuck to the glue traps management has left around for mice. We did the exact thing you did, we smashed the bats' heads with a hammer for a quick death. i hate glue traps.

 

[Jark212]

I think that glue traps are kind of inhumane, I prefer the reliable snap trap thingy, which are usually quick and painless for most of the mice/rats that are killed by them...

And there reusable so I can tell those damn hippies that there good for the environment...

 

[Pyro Paul]

that is very cosmic actually, where i work has a new infestation of bats and we ve been finding them stuck to the glue traps management has left around for mice. We did the exact thing you did, we smashed the bats' heads with a hammer for a quick death. i hate glue traps.

you know, with a bit of vegitable oil you could release the bat from the adhesive. Although i'm not very sure it will be well accepted if it returned home due to human interaction or even if it could do so. In any case, poor bat. such intresting creatures.

 

[Vern]

I tried glue traps, and I had the same problem with them. I had a mouse infestation for a while, and it came out to a total of six mice. The first time I saw a mouse that had gotten stuck in one, it had chewed it's own forelimb off trying to escape, of course that meant it moved around quite a bit and got it's face stuck in the trap as well. A day or two after I had a trap that caught two mice close together, one of the mice had ended up cannibalizing the other one to get food. Then the fact that you still have to kill the mice after you find them kind of the negates the point of a leave and forget trap.
I'm not a fan of mice, but it seems to me the best way to kill something is to just kill it and be done. With a glue trap they're alive for hours, probably pissing and shitting all over the place, and possibly bleeding. With a snap trap it's a quick process, it breaks their neck, and it's done with. I don't really recommend poison either, because it's not a quick process. So basically you end up with mice that can run back into a wall or other hiding place and slowly die and rot in the walls. In a large warehouse that might not be a problem, but in a house or office you probably don't want decaying animals in the vents.
Then there's catch and release traps, which I'm dubious of. The mouse is already used to being around people and living in houses, so unless you can get it far enough away from your house, it'll probably just go back, or go into a neighbors house. It's humane, but I doubt it's effectiveness.