Precisely so. As realism approaches infinity and fun approaches zero, the game ceases to be a game and becomes real life, which undermines the fundamental purpose of a game.Richard Groovy Pants said:
What bothers me about L4D
- Thread starter Metalgamer81
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Pretty much sums up my thoughts.mokes310 said:I understand where you're coming from, but I think that you're missing the point.
To answer your questions sequentially:
1. I've played on all difficulty levels, and when I play on Elite, I never feel safe. I'm always looking over my shoulder, making sure that nothing is sneaking up behind me. (Both in game and in real life...I'm a big wuss.) Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the "AI Director" release zombies taking into consideration how you're performing on that specific difficulty level?
2. I think that's more of an artistic choice than anything. Zombies are different depending on who you talk to, and perhaps the creative minds at Valve felt that Zombies would include some physical torment before they disembowled you?
3. I'd be kinda upset if it was a sort of "one shot, one kill" deal, since I'm pretty decent at head shots already. Think about it, if you've been playing FPS's for any number of years, how often do you get head shots? I enjoy the fact that it takes multiple rounds to take a single zombie down.
Personally, I think that this game has represented my emotions and experiences during zombie flics. I'm tense, I'm edgy, I'm scared, and, in some moments, I've even squeeled a little (much to the dismay of my gf). Perhaps looking at the game in a different light will help you realize all of the great qualities that this game has to offer
Oh, my only complaint with the game is that it needs more campaigns!
Also, if you're not scared, then you're definitely not playing on elite or even advanced depending on who you're playing with.
Metalgamer81:
If you honestly think that the regular game is too easy, play on Expert. It's not ludicrously hard, but it's challenging enough that you'll constantly feel the pressure. Even after fighting off one horde, you wouldn't want to dawdle too long lest the AI Director gets bored and spawns another. And in Expert, even a small mass of regular infected can deal a lot of damage.
A simple change like "infected hit harder" can turn a leisurely stroll (L4D Regular mode) into an honest-to-goodness fight for survival. The people in this thread are not lying when they say it addresses your first point rather well. It can also nab you some Achievements, and everybody loves an Achievement. (See: Obsessive Badge-hunters here.) The other two are a matter of taste, but I can see where you're getting at with them.
Also, if you have been playing Expert this entire time and you still think the game's too easy, then I pity anyone who attempts to play Versus against you.
If you honestly think that the regular game is too easy, play on Expert. It's not ludicrously hard, but it's challenging enough that you'll constantly feel the pressure. Even after fighting off one horde, you wouldn't want to dawdle too long lest the AI Director gets bored and spawns another. And in Expert, even a small mass of regular infected can deal a lot of damage.
A simple change like "infected hit harder" can turn a leisurely stroll (L4D Regular mode) into an honest-to-goodness fight for survival. The people in this thread are not lying when they say it addresses your first point rather well. It can also nab you some Achievements, and everybody loves an Achievement. (See: Obsessive Badge-hunters here.) The other two are a matter of taste, but I can see where you're getting at with them.
Also, if you have been playing Expert this entire time and you still think the game's too easy, then I pity anyone who attempts to play Versus against you.
Well obviously, these are not your traditional zombies - and Zoey even makes a joke about that in the elevator of Mercy Hospital.
If you always feel "safe" - play expert - it's the only difficulty I like.
Also, they should be biting you, but, the survivors you play as are immune to infection, so they don't get infected anyway - so the closest you'll get to being eaten is the hunter pounce.
and last but not least - DON'T FUCK WITH THE FUCKING WITCH!
EDIT: Also, tier one weapons suck against infected on expert, but the tier 2 weapons still own.
If you always feel "safe" - play expert - it's the only difficulty I like.
Also, they should be biting you, but, the survivors you play as are immune to infection, so they don't get infected anyway - so the closest you'll get to being eaten is the hunter pounce.
and last but not least - DON'T FUCK WITH THE FUCKING WITCH!
EDIT: Also, tier one weapons suck against infected on expert, but the tier 2 weapons still own.
"Hey mom, I'm in prison."TsunamiWombat said:
The thing I was most disappointed about was the lack of any choice to be stealthy. Sure it's possible to 'sneak' around a witch, but I want a gun with a silencer, and my team hiding in the shadows of every room, covertly capping zombies, trying not to alarm the horde. I love the epic zombie battles at every turn, don't get me wrong, but being able to avoid such situation gives another type of satisfied feeling. Maybe someone will do a Sam Fisher meets Left 4 Dead mod or something.
I don't understand how people are so rigid about the zombie concept. 28 Days Later rejuvenated zombie movies by depicting zombies as extremely fast, rather than shuffling corpses like in all other zombie movies, which frankly was wearing thin.
Nothing wrong with a little experimentation now and then, I think.
Nothing wrong with a little experimentation now and then, I think.
I just don't understand why everyone wants L4D to be as close to zombie movies as possible. Why not move away from copying the movie industry and focus on interactivity, which L4D does very well.
The teammate aspect brings something really unique to the idea of multiplayer, and I find the most intense games to be more immersive than the best zombie movies.
The teammate aspect brings something really unique to the idea of multiplayer, and I find the most intense games to be more immersive than the best zombie movies.
I kind of wish the Finale wasn't so predictable. Two mobs of enemies and Two tanks, then run for the boat/heli/what have you.
But really, this is nitpicking on my part. I love the game.
But really, this is nitpicking on my part. I love the game.
Stealth does play a small part. Leaving your flashlights on causes the hoard to ambush you. It's why zombies always attack you from a flank- flashlights off, they'll run right infront of you.spazzattack said:
uhhhh the one flaw in your entire statement was that they ARE NOT zombies they are infected not braindead zombies if u checked the left 4 dead sight and read up on it a tiny bit you would know this and wouldent be complaining now
You can sever the spine too, so assume one of the bullets to the chest did that. Rotting flesh isn't that strong...Metalgamer81 said:
the "zombies" in Left 4 Dead are not traditional zombies. They are "rage zombies" otherwise known as infected. Think of it like a human on crack and redbull, whose flesh is rotting and whose only thought is to punch you then curbstomp you til you stop moving.
as for the shoot'em once in the head thing, that would get boring, not to mention insanely frustrating (for those of us who, when being charged by several dozen infected, don't stop and take the time to pop each one individually in the noggin). A headshot works much better than a bodyshot, but they are harder to get. Besides, i think the trauma on the body caused by several rounds from an Uzi, much less a shotgun or Assault Rifle would be enough to make them at the very least stop moving.
as for the shoot'em once in the head thing, that would get boring, not to mention insanely frustrating (for those of us who, when being charged by several dozen infected, don't stop and take the time to pop each one individually in the noggin). A headshot works much better than a bodyshot, but they are harder to get. Besides, i think the trauma on the body caused by several rounds from an Uzi, much less a shotgun or Assault Rifle would be enough to make them at the very least stop moving.
Zed fanatic will talk about #2 and #3.Metalgamer81 said:
And also about the last bit in the quote.
Okay here goes.
I can completely agree with you on #2 as to why they can't eat you and those other people who say it wouldn't work, well they wouldn't necessarily have to eat you until you died and they could bit you while your surrounded.
As for #3 the movie 28 Days Later is probably where they got their zombies.
And for the last and final bit I have this to say.
Have you heard of Urban Dead? Escapist Magazine did an article about it a while back before I got an account on here but it roughly captures the mood of the zombie apocalypse without the need of an A.I.. You heard me right. Its all controlled by human players so if you do something stupid like forgetting to log out while in a shelter of some sort you'll most likely end up as a recruit at the Battle of Yonkers [Hopefully you'll get that joke].
Here is the link if you want to give it a try.
www.urbandead.com
Yay for the Yonkers/Urban Dead reference!
Really, though, this is more of a 28 Days Later game than a Dawn of the Dead Game. Which is fine, you know! They're both excellent films...
SEe, I am all for trying out new things with zombies, just as I'm fine with trying out new things with vampires or werewolves or robots or whatever. Sometimes they work, see Boss Infected. Sometimes, these new things fail cause they're shitty. See Twilight.
If something new doesn't work, point at it and laugh. As Left for Dead happens to work rather well, I shall point at it and not laugh, but rather go, "Look at that fine game, my good sir."
Also, to the guy who kept complaining about shooting them a bunch in the chest: Which gun are you using and which game are you playing, cause the most I've seen a zombie take is three pistol shots to the chest. Any more than that, and they drop. Sure, some of them keep *trying* to get at you, but their bodies are stressed beyond their breaking point and they collapse.
Which is part of what makes these zombies scary: Their relentless, fearless desire to KILL YOUR ASS!
Really, though, this is more of a 28 Days Later game than a Dawn of the Dead Game. Which is fine, you know! They're both excellent films...
SEe, I am all for trying out new things with zombies, just as I'm fine with trying out new things with vampires or werewolves or robots or whatever. Sometimes they work, see Boss Infected. Sometimes, these new things fail cause they're shitty. See Twilight.
If something new doesn't work, point at it and laugh. As Left for Dead happens to work rather well, I shall point at it and not laugh, but rather go, "Look at that fine game, my good sir."
Also, to the guy who kept complaining about shooting them a bunch in the chest: Which gun are you using and which game are you playing, cause the most I've seen a zombie take is three pistol shots to the chest. Any more than that, and they drop. Sure, some of them keep *trying* to get at you, but their bodies are stressed beyond their breaking point and they collapse.
Which is part of what makes these zombies scary: Their relentless, fearless desire to KILL YOUR ASS!
Maybe it doesn't go into the heart, or any other vital body parts. Unless you've got a copy of "The Infected: How do they work?" we are just guessing.GenHellspawn said:
1.) The game doesn't enforce people rushing, it however enforces people to constantly push on forward and I believe there's a significant difference between them two.
This is simply bcause the Game Director will always throw hordes at you if you stay at the same spot for too long in the game, and when playing the game - specially on the Highest Difficulty Setting - this will significantly reduce your (and your teammates) chances of survival. That's why you need to push on forward - but not neccesarily rush on forward. This specially happens in a lot of parts and areas of the game where you and your group are leaving yourself wide open for an attack.
Any open area in the game adds significant danger to you since zombies can be coming in all directions which is tremendously difficult to defend yourself against without taking some damage. You cannot bottleneck them when standing in the middle of an open street.
Throw in some boss-zombies (Smokers/Hunters/Boomer etc) into the mix and you got yourself a good enough reason not to hang around watching the real estate unless you like your brain served as a salad.
As for healing, loading up, gtting ammo - I rarely run out of ammo in the game, nor do I need to heal up in any other place than the saferoom in the game, even on Expert. Sometimes I feel that the Game Director gives me ammo whenever I need it so there's not much reason to stand around unless you really have to.
Point is - the game forces you to constantly push on forward because there is simply no reason to stand around. Not neccesarily rush, but push on forward.
3.) Playing the game on the Highest Difficulty Setting, I've rarely seen zombies bite the bullet from one shot. (other than the shotgun and headshots obviously) I am also very very thankful if they sometimes for once did die from one bullet. If you ever played Mega Horde Mode [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4eyDBgy0fCA] you'd be very thankful that a couple of them go down that easily. The game would be simply way too difficult in my opinion if zombies had to take 20 hits to the chest before dying. There is also the obvious graphical and computer CPU limitation (This is again visible in Mega Horde Mode) of animating hundreds of zombies biting you and aesthetically - they chose to go with the punch/kick method instead.
This is simply bcause the Game Director will always throw hordes at you if you stay at the same spot for too long in the game, and when playing the game - specially on the Highest Difficulty Setting - this will significantly reduce your (and your teammates) chances of survival. That's why you need to push on forward - but not neccesarily rush on forward. This specially happens in a lot of parts and areas of the game where you and your group are leaving yourself wide open for an attack.
Any open area in the game adds significant danger to you since zombies can be coming in all directions which is tremendously difficult to defend yourself against without taking some damage. You cannot bottleneck them when standing in the middle of an open street.
Throw in some boss-zombies (Smokers/Hunters/Boomer etc) into the mix and you got yourself a good enough reason not to hang around watching the real estate unless you like your brain served as a salad.
As for healing, loading up, gtting ammo - I rarely run out of ammo in the game, nor do I need to heal up in any other place than the saferoom in the game, even on Expert. Sometimes I feel that the Game Director gives me ammo whenever I need it so there's not much reason to stand around unless you really have to.
Point is - the game forces you to constantly push on forward because there is simply no reason to stand around. Not neccesarily rush, but push on forward.
3.) Playing the game on the Highest Difficulty Setting, I've rarely seen zombies bite the bullet from one shot. (other than the shotgun and headshots obviously) I am also very very thankful if they sometimes for once did die from one bullet. If you ever played Mega Horde Mode [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4eyDBgy0fCA] you'd be very thankful that a couple of them go down that easily. The game would be simply way too difficult in my opinion if zombies had to take 20 hits to the chest before dying. There is also the obvious graphical and computer CPU limitation (This is again visible in Mega Horde Mode) of animating hundreds of zombies biting you and aesthetically - they chose to go with the punch/kick method instead.
Well its not surprising that there isn't a zombie game that requires you to always get a headshot to eliminate them.
Think of the gameplay mechanics. If you needed to get a headshot everytime to down a zombie and you're attacked by a horde of lets say 20+ zombies, well you're screwed aren't you?
'Cause they'll be chewing on your colin like its a german sausage long before you land all those shots.
Okay there may be some absolute fanatic who could make all those headshots, but when the game is being made to sell to a mass of people, then things such as headshots only need to be eliminated for the game to be playable by most.
Think of the gameplay mechanics. If you needed to get a headshot everytime to down a zombie and you're attacked by a horde of lets say 20+ zombies, well you're screwed aren't you?
'Cause they'll be chewing on your colin like its a german sausage long before you land all those shots.
Okay there may be some absolute fanatic who could make all those headshots, but when the game is being made to sell to a mass of people, then things such as headshots only need to be eliminated for the game to be playable by most.
Most of you play on expert(Or so i hope atleast) wich means they are stronger than a regular zombie. Try play on Normal if you want to kill em with 1-3 shots. Altough i don't recommend it because it's utter boring to play on normal.
Besides, there is no ''Zombie-Law'' or anything so the zombies(If they would like to) Could take a diarrhea dump in your ear. As since there is no scientific evidence that there have or does exist beings such as ''Zombies''. If 1000 people tell a lie and say its true, then its still a lie no? You just take what you have seen in movies and probably have experienced in games like Resident Evil.
For #3. There is nothing that says a zombie MUST die if you place a nice shot in they're head and that rest of they're body are almost immune to your shots. You think of zombie as an ''Arisen dead'', but having 5 strong bad a$$ sh*t zombies shambling with the speed of a snail after you is the correct way of expressing a zombie game? People have differen't aspects of seeing things that's why we all ended up here arguing, but there is no proof of a dead shambling guy or an insane pitbull gang member infected with a ''enhanced'' version of rabies so claimming alot of things is just wrong and you should know~
Overall it's a good game and as they said ''There are alot of games that have Co-op added but never really required it that much'' As in this game where there are 2 special infected who once got you in they're grasp your dead. Wich means a fellow survivor must help you. Making it a team work game. Lots of beginners will or should experience that. And by adding 1 or both of these infected it pretty much limits it to ''You are bound to die if you are alone'' And lots of people think they just can rush trough the maps whether its easy or expert as since you are going to a hit or 2 and it will impair your movement speed ALOT wich makes you an easy target for any trespassing infected.
I agree. This game doesen't give me the chills it should have. I would blame it on the music and darkness. A good mixture of music and setting has alot to say for your ''survivor instincts''. You ever seen a movie (regardless of what one) without music being very interesting?
Besides, there is no ''Zombie-Law'' or anything so the zombies(If they would like to) Could take a diarrhea dump in your ear. As since there is no scientific evidence that there have or does exist beings such as ''Zombies''. If 1000 people tell a lie and say its true, then its still a lie no? You just take what you have seen in movies and probably have experienced in games like Resident Evil.
For #3. There is nothing that says a zombie MUST die if you place a nice shot in they're head and that rest of they're body are almost immune to your shots. You think of zombie as an ''Arisen dead'', but having 5 strong bad a$$ sh*t zombies shambling with the speed of a snail after you is the correct way of expressing a zombie game? People have differen't aspects of seeing things that's why we all ended up here arguing, but there is no proof of a dead shambling guy or an insane pitbull gang member infected with a ''enhanced'' version of rabies so claimming alot of things is just wrong and you should know~
Overall it's a good game and as they said ''There are alot of games that have Co-op added but never really required it that much'' As in this game where there are 2 special infected who once got you in they're grasp your dead. Wich means a fellow survivor must help you. Making it a team work game. Lots of beginners will or should experience that. And by adding 1 or both of these infected it pretty much limits it to ''You are bound to die if you are alone'' And lots of people think they just can rush trough the maps whether its easy or expert as since you are going to a hit or 2 and it will impair your movement speed ALOT wich makes you an easy target for any trespassing infected.
I agree. This game doesen't give me the chills it should have. I would blame it on the music and darkness. A good mixture of music and setting has alot to say for your ''survivor instincts''. You ever seen a movie (regardless of what one) without music being very interesting?
I would imagine that they are using the 28 Days Later or I am Legend style zombie instead of the traditional. This would explain their incredible speed and rage-like tendencies(To beat on eachother when they can't find any humans, so on and so fourth). So in a sense they are not super-naturally undead, but infected and as such still rely on the major body functions to live.
To those who have been saying that the infected are not zombies "If it looks like a horse, smells like a horse and has a saddle on its back, its a horse". They are zombies. If you make a game with an original monster we would have no problem, but if you make a zombie game and slap a new name on afterwards it will still be a zombie game to us.