To be fair, if I was struggling to deal with the mental trauma that came with repressed memories of being a child soldier coming to the surface, my girlfriend lied and told me she lost our baby, and she later staged a marriage to another man, and I was eventually captured by the series big bad guys who proceeded to remove my head and spine from my body and use me in their cyborg experiments and basically ensuring I'd never be able to live a normal life again, I'd be pretty fucked up too.Bitter Hobbit said:
What characters have been RUINED by sequels? SPOILERS
- Thread starter DrunkenElfMage
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I think they usually go from "believably varied character" to "same basic ideas, but taken to unbelievable extremes to make them stand out".Soviet Heavy said:
Mass Effect wasn't all bad going from 1 to 2; many misses but some hits in there aswell like Tali who was just exposition-girl for Quarians in ME1 and became a person for the 2nd game.
Not even gonna talk about ME3 because it's basically the dumb-action-movie version of the Mass Effect universe. Just thinking about fucking Vega or that reporter chick brings my piss to a boil.
Baldur's Gate characters pretty much all improved going from 1 to 2, Imoen and Jaheira became a lot more interesting and that trend only continued in Throne of Bhaal. Makes you wonder what went wrong with Bioware since then.
Yuna from Final Fantasy X/X-2.
In X, she is a young lady with a bit meek personality, but with fire in her heart. She is calm, smart, pretty, strong-willed... Well, in short, my favorite lady in all of videogames.
Then X-2 happened and she became the super-happy-fun-fun-time-maho-shojo leader of super-happy-fun-fun-time-maho-shojo group.
God damnit.
EDIT: and her wardrobe went from japanese-style blouse and long skirt with simple black boots to top with purple leather short shorts. PURPLE LEATHER SHORT SHORTS PEOPLE! Screw you, whoever redesigned her.
In X, she is a young lady with a bit meek personality, but with fire in her heart. She is calm, smart, pretty, strong-willed... Well, in short, my favorite lady in all of videogames.
Then X-2 happened and she became the super-happy-fun-fun-time-maho-shojo leader of super-happy-fun-fun-time-maho-shojo group.
God damnit.
EDIT: and her wardrobe went from japanese-style blouse and long skirt with simple black boots to top with purple leather short shorts. PURPLE LEATHER SHORT SHORTS PEOPLE! Screw you, whoever redesigned her.
Can't disagree on this. From a story perspective I understand it but from a gameplay perspective not so much since you'll lose the drive to gett the good ending (well I did).-Ezio- said:
Does "All of the characters in Mass Effect 3" count?
I'll go with Elizabeth. She was pretty screwed over by Burial at Sea part 2.
Let's take a super powerful demigod and make her completely helpless and at the Mercy of the bad guy from the first game! YEAH! Let's also take away all her cognitive ability and give her a voice in her head that tells her exactly what to do at every step of the way!
It was just all around a bad idea.
I'll go with Elizabeth. She was pretty screwed over by Burial at Sea part 2.
Let's take a super powerful demigod and make her completely helpless and at the Mercy of the bad guy from the first game! YEAH! Let's also take away all her cognitive ability and give her a voice in her head that tells her exactly what to do at every step of the way!
It was just all around a bad idea.
Actually, I can see where that one came from. I mean, she had kept time looping over and over(according to the writer it was around 100 times, or 8 years and some change) with the sole purpose of saving Madoka, and ultimately... she failed. Oh sure, Madoka didn't become a witch, the world was saved, and all that, but that was the victory Madoka chose, not the one Homura wanted. Combine that failure with the fact that Rebellion takes place right as Homura is taking a swan dive off the Despair Event Horizon(unimpeded by Madoka thanks to the Incubators), and you've got a pretty solid setup for a Face Heel Turn. And then Homura sees a way to actually bring Madoka back into the world for real?nima55 said:
As bleak as PMMM was for most of its run, it ended in the triumph of selfless love. Rebellion ended with a win for its twin, a possessive, selfish love that you could imagine being born over 8 years of endlessly obsessing over one person.
Now granted, the whole devil speech itself was a bit heavy handed, but then again, she was in middle of turning into a witch when Madoka and friends saved her. It could be argued that she really wasn't herself at the time. Hopefully there will be one more movie to close things up, though it could be argued that the story has a bizarre sort of symmetry as it stands.
Oh don't get me wrong, it is a faintly plausible turn, but it still pisses me off. It's like we got the video game style "bad end". Like if she had just gone to yuri heaven with Madoka, there wouldn't be anyone going "What a terrible ending. She should have gone crazy and turned evil" Everyone would just be happy. Plausible ending or not, It's really clear that it was a decision born out of wanting the franchise to make more money.Scars Unseen said:
Hannibal Lecter! Although I don't know that he technically counts because I felt it was the Prequel which wrecked him as a character. The best line he has in Silence of the Lambs the bit about somebody trying to psychologically test him getting eaten. Unlike the other killers in the series he's inscrutable and terrifying because of it. He sees through the other characters with ease but they can't see through him. Hannibal Rising reduces him to just another serial killer with a fucked up childhood and I think that dispels all the mystique. Plus the book felt like a weak cash grab to me which didn't help.
Also I'd like to through my hat in with those saying Yuna in Final Fantasy X/X-2. Just... why?
Also I'd like to through my hat in with those saying Yuna in Final Fantasy X/X-2. Just... why?
Anders from the Dragon Age series. In Origins - Awakening, Anders is a happy and sassy mage who just wants to get by in the world without having to be constantly harassed because of his powers, but in 2 suddenly he gets super depressed and is suddenly becomes a mage extremist out of the blue. What the hell is that all about Bioware? I loved him in Origins, but in 2 he was one of my least favourite characters, saved only by being the only mage (NPC) with revival powers.
I get where you both are coming from, but I'm actually slightly pleased that the 'bad' ending is canon for once: way too many games that have multiple endings seem to declare the sunshine and rainbows ending canon. It's nice to see some change.0takuMetalhead said:
The Prince in the "Prince of Persia - Sands of Time" trilogy.
He went from charming rogue to bad-ass warrior wannabe to self-doubting hero-in-crisis wannabe.
And although Yuri Lowenthal did an admirable job with the voice acting through out, the character arc just felt forced and unnatural (to me, at least).
He went from charming rogue to bad-ass warrior wannabe to self-doubting hero-in-crisis wannabe.
And although Yuri Lowenthal did an admirable job with the voice acting through out, the character arc just felt forced and unnatural (to me, at least).
Mikeyfell said:
I finished Burial at Sea part 2 today and pretty much came here to say this. Not only did it butcher a character that I really started to warm up to, but the entire DLC retroactively ruins the story and world for both Bioshock AND Bioshock Infinite! The story was of fanfiction level of writing quality, with the contrived mechanisations that tied both Infinite and the first game, and basically resorted to reducing Booker and Elizabeth as plot devices in order to pander to people who wanted to see them in Rapture. My head canon has officially erased the entire thing from mind and have resorted in believing that Infinite is its own stand alone reality completely separate from the events of Rapture.
And the fact that this is supposed to be Levine's swan song for the final chapter of the franchise leaves a very bitter taste in my mouth. The amount of pandering and lack of distinctive vision that made this series stand out was so glaringly obvious.
Liara, Mordin?Mikeyfell said:
Liara was treated pretty roughly in the 2nd game for no reason. I felt like her character was supposed to be replaced by Miranda, but nobody liked her because she's made of plastic and feels even less real then a weird blue alien archaeologist chick. In 3 we at least see how her crusade to avenge the death of Shepard and becoming the information broker made her mature beyond the innocent little Asari scientist "girl" (!00 years old but still..). I'd say that's a step up from 2 where she was absent for no adequately explained reason which really pissed me off.
Mordin had a really powerful conclusion to his arc in 3. He could have been a minor character considering his role in 2 was just to "be the crew scientist" but his subplot of redemption actually became one of the highlights of the series.
Mordin had a really powerful conclusion to his arc in 3. He could have been a minor character considering his role in 2 was just to "be the crew scientist" but his subplot of redemption actually became one of the highlights of the series.
Tali to a lesser extent I guess
Her development was believable (similar deal as with Liara tbh) and her involvement with the Quarian conflict was continued neatly from 2. The big problem is the retarded photoshop picture which ruins the purpose of the romance with Shepard* and to a lesser extend the fact that she falls for Garrus despite the fact that we never see them talk to each other much.
*I mean how they handle the sexual side of their relationship was pretty much the most interesting thing and I thought the bed scene in 2 was well done in that regard, but they throw all of it out the window in 3 by showing us her face and saying "it's ok I'm used to sex with you now". This of course fits with the theme of dumbing everything down in 3...
*I mean how they handle the sexual side of their relationship was pretty much the most interesting thing and I thought the bed scene in 2 was well done in that regard, but they throw all of it out the window in 3 by showing us her face and saying "it's ok I'm used to sex with you now". This of course fits with the theme of dumbing everything down in 3...
Resident Evil 5:
Albert Wesker: When I played the earlier Resident Evil titles, I liked Albert Wesker. I didn't know why he did the things he did, but he sure did them with style. Boy was I disappointed when in Resident Evil 5 he just turned out to be some generic misanthrope. Seriously Wesker? You've accumulated all this power, and this is what you do with it? And you're going to talk to me about natural selection like I'm a 4th grader the entire time we fight? 2/10, would not replay.
StarCraft II:
Arcturus Mengsk: I had thought that getting to take a closer look at his Dominion would be an interesting experience, but it turned out to be rather generic as far as dictatorships go. Blizzard didn't opt for a lot of subtlety in the environmental storytelling when trumpeting their "MENGSK IS EVUUUUL!" message. When playing the first StarCraft, I thought Mengsk would be above using those corny holo-billboards Raynor destroyed on Mar Sara.
Infested Kerrigan: Kerrigan really was a delight in StarCraft. She was cunning, funny, brutal, and she seemed to take so much joy in taking her enemies out of play. Not in StarCraft II, then she lost her sense of humor, stopped killing important people, and just spouted fatalistic nonsense every time she and Raynor met.
The Overmind: I seriously hope that Tassadar was lying when he said that The Overmind was just misunderstood. Before StarCraft II, we were to understand that he was originally a tool of the Xel Naga until he grew tired of taking their orders and freed himself. Now we're to understand that he was a victim all along. Lame.
Metroid Other M:
Adam Malkovich: After playing Metroid Fusion, I'm not sure what I was expecting, but wow, this guy is as boring as paint.
Samus Aran: I'm sure you've already heard about how Other M ruined Samus ad nauseum, so I'm not going to bother.
Mass Effect 3:
The Geth: I felt that in Mass Effect 3, they sacrificed everything that made their race unique and interesting. By having them use reaper code to survive the Quarian onslaught, not only did they sacrifice their distributed intelligence, which made them one of the few races in Mass Effect that felt truly alien, they abandoned their conviction that by accepting the technology of others, you blind yourself to the alternatives.
Donald Udina: Seriously? What sane reason did this guy have to collaborate with Cerberus, is BioWare saying that if any character doesn't like Shepard, they must be insane? I like having to deal with characters who are opposed to your character in RPGs who you aren't necessarily supposed to murder, makes it feel like a bit more than a simple power fantasy.
The Reapers: I don't know what I expected their motivation to be, but I was hoping it would be something that makes a bit more sense than murdering trillions of organic lifeforms every 50,000 years to save them from being wiped out by other synthetic lifeforms. Hell, even if they let you beat the game without discovering why the Reapers did what they did, it still would have been better than this.
Albert Wesker: When I played the earlier Resident Evil titles, I liked Albert Wesker. I didn't know why he did the things he did, but he sure did them with style. Boy was I disappointed when in Resident Evil 5 he just turned out to be some generic misanthrope. Seriously Wesker? You've accumulated all this power, and this is what you do with it? And you're going to talk to me about natural selection like I'm a 4th grader the entire time we fight? 2/10, would not replay.
StarCraft II:
Arcturus Mengsk: I had thought that getting to take a closer look at his Dominion would be an interesting experience, but it turned out to be rather generic as far as dictatorships go. Blizzard didn't opt for a lot of subtlety in the environmental storytelling when trumpeting their "MENGSK IS EVUUUUL!" message. When playing the first StarCraft, I thought Mengsk would be above using those corny holo-billboards Raynor destroyed on Mar Sara.
Infested Kerrigan: Kerrigan really was a delight in StarCraft. She was cunning, funny, brutal, and she seemed to take so much joy in taking her enemies out of play. Not in StarCraft II, then she lost her sense of humor, stopped killing important people, and just spouted fatalistic nonsense every time she and Raynor met.
The Overmind: I seriously hope that Tassadar was lying when he said that The Overmind was just misunderstood. Before StarCraft II, we were to understand that he was originally a tool of the Xel Naga until he grew tired of taking their orders and freed himself. Now we're to understand that he was a victim all along. Lame.
Metroid Other M:
Adam Malkovich: After playing Metroid Fusion, I'm not sure what I was expecting, but wow, this guy is as boring as paint.
Samus Aran: I'm sure you've already heard about how Other M ruined Samus ad nauseum, so I'm not going to bother.
Mass Effect 3:
The Geth: I felt that in Mass Effect 3, they sacrificed everything that made their race unique and interesting. By having them use reaper code to survive the Quarian onslaught, not only did they sacrifice their distributed intelligence, which made them one of the few races in Mass Effect that felt truly alien, they abandoned their conviction that by accepting the technology of others, you blind yourself to the alternatives.
Donald Udina: Seriously? What sane reason did this guy have to collaborate with Cerberus, is BioWare saying that if any character doesn't like Shepard, they must be insane? I like having to deal with characters who are opposed to your character in RPGs who you aren't necessarily supposed to murder, makes it feel like a bit more than a simple power fantasy.
The Reapers: I don't know what I expected their motivation to be, but I was hoping it would be something that makes a bit more sense than murdering trillions of organic lifeforms every 50,000 years to save them from being wiped out by other synthetic lifeforms. Hell, even if they let you beat the game without discovering why the Reapers did what they did, it still would have been better than this.
Mister K said:
I wanna expand on that.debtcollector said:
I assumed Lightning's generic stoic badassity was an act, something you're supposed to do when a tragic backstory shows up and you get all gruff and vengency.
Once she sees the same behavior from Hope, she goes "all crap" and tried to stop him from becoming a jackass. I'd like to think that kick starts her change too. The the sequels and spin-offs come around and run with the "super-badass" persona.
Same thing happened with Cloud, ignoring his character development arc to make him all moody and broody in everything except for the original game.
Agreed, I know he took on the spirit Justice, but my god was he whinny, I used him as a party member in my first playthru and then avoided him like the plague every playthru after...spartandude said:
And yes I happily kill him for blowing up the chantry
Damn it Anders
I am assuming Smallhatlogan is refering to tv tropes term well intentioned extremist, which is defined by someone going by logic end justifies the means. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WellIntentionedExtremistDaWaffledude said:
And he believed he did what he had to ensure mankind would survive (ME2). That's what he believed, and to some extent, did. All reserch was done with the idea in mind that not doing it would doom all. Roll in ME3 and he is more going for the mankind as dominant force in the galaxy kind of guy. OT: So I agree with logan.
About the Reapers: You know, that's the reason I didn't understand people who expected Mass Effect 3's ending to involve any sense whatsoever. Mass Effect 1's writer made it impossible to solve The Reapers' mystery in any clever way. I mean, creatures that kill everything every 1524213 years just because? How could that possibly be resolved without any association with god?ObserverStatus said: