What constitutes selling out for you?

[Inarticulate_Underachiever]

I just visited two massive threads on Metallica and the comedian Ben Elton and there was a lot of hate for both parties because they supposedly "sold out"

Now I've never really known what to think about this topic. Metallica did a brave thing by changing their sound (no doubt if they'd kept their old sound people would hate them for being repetitive) but because it was more accessible than the material they used to make they are labelled by a lot of people as "sell outs".

Ben Elton started off his career as a radical left-wing firebrand promoting alternative comedy, which brought him success and recognition with shows such as The Young Ones and Blackadder. Recently though he has been getting hate because he's matured as a person and started branching out into other areas of work, such as writing novels and musicals.

With both of these cases I don't see people selling out, I just see people who want to try something different from what first brought them success and being hated on as a result.

Oh and to the comedian Stewart Lee, you are a complete prick for saying Ben Elton is a worse human being than Osama Bin Laden.

 

[brainfreeze215]

I'm an actor, so selling out is pretty much making any sort of decent money.

I sold out pretty damn quickly.

 

[pantallica95]

People say metallica sold out because of Load, ReLoad and St. Anger. I say the only time they MIGHT have sold out was The Black Album. But thats just me. People think because Load and ReLoad and St. Anger arent thrash that Metallica sold out for money. They didnt want to do thrash anymore, and it was pretty ballsy of them to change their sound to something a lot of their fans wouldnt like.

 

[WickedSkin]

Metallica and KISS are sell-outs. They turned into sellouts as soon as their rock bands turned into companies.

 

[Golden Gryphon]

Surely the only way you can truly sell out is if you stop doing what you want to do just to make money and even then it can only really apply if you don't need the money.

 

[Jedoro]

To me, selling out is not believing in your own morals, and selling your beliefs for cash. Nothing more, nothing less.

I quite agree, this and only this. Doing something you don't want to in order to gain money, is selling out.

If you want to do it and it gets you more money, that's called intelligent choice.

 

[Inarticulate_Underachiever]

People say metallica sold out because of Load, ReLoad and St. Anger. I say the only time they MIGHT have sold out was The Black Album. But thats just me. People think because Load and ReLoad and St. Anger arent thrash that Metallica sold out for money. They didnt want to do thrash anymore, and it was pretty ballsy of them to change their sound to something a lot of their fans wouldnt like.

The only thing someone could use to support the claim that Metallica sold out was Death Magnetic, which is basically Ride The Lightning 2.0.

 

[ExodusinFlames]

See, in my opinion a lot folks mix up "Selling Out" with "Making a Living". I'll use Metallica as an example. What they did with the Black Album, Load and Re-Load, was firstly try somethings that were unique and new for them, at the request of their producer. New things scare comfortble fans, just the way it goes. The success of those albums however, afforded them something new as well, Metallica could stop the typical band diet of one peice of pizza spread out over 12 hours and 16 beers. They now had options. Garage Inc I won't count because it was all demo stuff, they then released S&M (probably my fave that they did after AJFA). Metallica's straw for alot of fans was the Napster stuff, and the unbelievable wait between Re-Load (which was ok) and St.Anger (which was a sprawling puddle of puke). Six years is a long time when considering we went from Kill em All to the Black Album in only eight. People were mad about Napster as it is, seeing it as corporate greed and such, but to release a shitty album after a six year hiatus is bad for anyone. Then Death Magnetic, though better than St. Anger, was still a five year wait. It bugs people to see a band make millions more, when they aren't doing the same amount of work as they were in the early stages. Bands are about the fans, they're your bread and butter. The mistake Metallica made most, was turning their backs on the ones that got them to where they are.

 

[Schnippshly]

Selling out is being in the music business and making any amount of money.

 

[pantallica95]

People say metallica sold out because of Load, ReLoad and St. Anger. I say the only time they MIGHT have sold out was The Black Album. But thats just me. People think because Load and ReLoad and St. Anger arent thrash that Metallica sold out for money. They didnt want to do thrash anymore, and it was pretty ballsy of them to change their sound to something a lot of their fans wouldnt like.

The only thing someone could use to support the claim that Metallica sold out was Death Magnetic, which is basically Ride The Lightning 2.0.

A. I have never once heard that.

B. How is that even slightly possible? Ride the Lightning wasnt a very progressive album. Fight Fire With Fire was like a Kill Em All track with an acoustic intro, For Whom The Bell Tolls is the easiest Metallica song to learn on any instrument. I play guitar, but i can play it on drums easily. If anything its ...And Justice For All 2.0. Which it isnt, but thats the best argument. Only one song on Death Magnetic album is under 6 minutes long. All of the songs are long and complicated. RTL's songs...not so much.

 

[bluepilot]

I think that selling out only really applies when you let people down badly or trase in your beliefs for something frivoulous.

But I think that writers, muscians, artists e.t.c. have a right to use their talents in different ways and try out new things.

 

[WrongSprite]

I hate people who say that. If they want to make more money, fucking let them. It's their music, not the fans music.

 

[FinalHeart95]

Selling out is used because people don't want to think that their band is evolving and they sound better. It's also when a band becomes popular and the fans don't want that because it's not "brutal" to be famous.

This is ironic, because generally when a band becomes more popular, it's because they've adopted a better sound.

 

[AgentNein]

This is usually a mindset people adopt when they enjoyed having a band/whatever as their little secret. Then they become bitter when the band they dug makes it big, or is discovered by a larger group of folks and they're not recognized for their fan-seniority. Suddenly they're not so special anymore. And then they start spouting things like 'sellout', or when they wish to assert their cool-fan-seniority, things like "their older is stuff is sooo much better".

For these people, it doesn't matter which direction the music goes in, or even if it changes at all. For them, "their older stuff is sooo much better". This is their way of separating themselves from the newer, "second-class" fans.

 

[Gamer137]

Replacing quality, uniqeness, and your original fans for quick cash. If someone wants to expand in terms of what they provide, I am fine with it if the quality remains and the original fans are not kicked to the curb like garbage. Metallica may have expanded there music variety, but that is not like they went from metal to kids pop. Why should the original fans be pissed?

Oh way, and making reboots/remakes that are nothing like the original except for character names.

 

[Pimppeter2]

Slang To betray one's cause or colleagues

Id say thats close. I don't think selling out has anything to do with fans.

when a band/singer/rapper changes their music/style in order to sell records.

I'd say that could count. Also, I like how they don't include rapper in the same catagory as singer.

 

[tomtom94]

Selling out is what the bands I listen to have apparently done.
I don't understand why signing a record deal with a company that can make you big is selling out? Surely it's just common sense?

"No, we're going to reject lots of money and fame and the ability to spread our message to the masses in favour of selling 1,000 albums a year and barely seeing anyone at gigs"

(since you ask, Green Day and Rise Against)

Also it's what Nintendo do because, after all, making money and increasing the size of the market is a bad thing.