the simplified alignments i agree on; but lawful good remains as one of them. if you indeed believe that "law" is not the same definition in dnd as it is in the real world, then perhaps have a second look. i won't doubt you once you find and quote what 'lawful good' means in dnd, but i frankly believe that the authors of dnd wouldn't go and make a new definition of something as well known as "law".ace_of_something said:i understand the definition of the word law. I work in Law enforcement. But IN THE D&D GAME that's not what it means.theklng said:you're contradicting yourself. organized order is law. look up order on www.dictionary.com and see your for yourself. in the same way, lawful characters would be under lawful rule at any rate, which means they would obey their own authority. why do you don the same costume and patrol the same route at night? because you were ordered to do so.ace_of_something said:After this post I will no longer respond to the topic of batman?s alignment because it?s kind of a stupid argument and shame on me for getting into it.theklng said:batman does not act with order, order implying law. and where do you see the planning of his? he is not a villain, he does not plan; he goes to rescue people, having a disregard towards the bureaucracy that is law while doing so. at the end of the dark knight, batman is running from the police, implying he did something bad. there is certainly no hold towards law for him; you can seen numerous proofs of this in both the comic and the movies.ace_of_something said:I refuse to do this based on the fact that it's off of ad&D or 2nd ed. THAT WAS 2 EDITIONS AGO!
It's a hard concept for people to grasp but 'lawful' good does not mean 'follows the law' it just means that they act with consistency, order, and planning. These are all things batman does.theklng said:that site is way off. batman is not lawful good with his little regard towards established law, and assassins are not neutral evil because they don't kill out of spite, but out of either orders or for money.
They specifically say in all three versions of players handbooks that I've seen; that lawful does not nessicarrly respect the established order just that your individual actions are ordered. Meaning say, every night you don a costume, go out on a patrol around a similar perimeter. You always react the same to dangerous situations, with say cold indifference.
Lawful in D&D does not mean ?OBEYS THE LAW? it means you act with order, organization, patterns, sensibility, logic. If the lawful in lawful good meant blindly following the law what would a chivalrous hero do when a Tyrannical leader rules the country with an iron fist of law?
Sorry I?ve had this argument with many a Paladin player.
And I leave with a quote of a wise old DM i once knew...
?There are two kinds of paladins, Lawful good and Lawful stupid, I only allow the former.?
if you're action out of your own right, you are no longer lawful, because you don't care about what's happening to others; it is a selfish act, and egotism is opposed to what society wants from you. which also answers your supposedly "paradoxal" question: if a tyrannical leader leads a country, a "lawful good" person would see, if it was the will of the society of people living beneath the rule, that the tyrant was disposed of. (afterwards you would of course establish your own rule and law and make everyone else follow it because you think you are RIGHT, based on what people from the society expect from you; unbeknownst that you will yourself turn into the next tyrant because you'll be stuck up in those same beliefs).
i could go into depth why lawful is either extremely fitting, throwing in a bunch of sociology and psychology, or why it is mislabelled because d&d players not neccesarily are the most intelligent players on the planet (at least not in human sciences).
This is why they simplified alignments in 4th ed.
now go prove me wrong, kiddo.
EDIT:
straight from wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alignment_(Dungeons_&_Dragons) ):
Law implies honor, trustworthiness, obedience to authority, and reliability. On the downside, lawfulness can include close-mindedness, reactionary adherence to tradition, judgmentalness, and a lack of adaptability. Those who consciously promote lawfulness say that only lawful behavior creates a society in which people can depend on each other and make the right decisions in full confidence that others will act as they should.
this is exactly what i said it was before. while a region's law my differ, there's always obedience given to an authority. QED. now that this is settled, i shall leave this thread alone.