What do people want from MMO's?

[Gray-Philosophy]

Hello everyone

I'm an avid MMO player, I've played WoW, Everquest, Rift, Planetside, Elder Scrolls Online, Neverwinter and probably some others.

I rather like the idea of a large online multiplayer experience because it creates the opportunity for cooperation and gameplay with strangers that have common interests.

Lately I've been getting the impression that people are getting fed up with the common MMO's out there "It's a WoW clone" "All you do is grind" "Everyone just rushes to max lvl to get epics" and so on.

Quite frankly, I find myself a little dissatisfied with a lot of these things myself. I feel like I'm missing the aspect of player interaction because it's necessary. I find that the games that look interesting to me, aren't really challenging at all.

So I thought I'd pose this question just out of curiosity.
What would you want from an MMO? Or any online multiplayer at all really. Certain features? certain mechanics? certain areas of focus like well written lore or a particular type of gameplay mode?

Thank you everyone for your lovely and constructive replies.
This has been a lot more positive than I had expected with experiences from previous forums, and a lot of what I'm reading here is consistent with what I'd want from a game myself as well.

For those that are interested in these things, I'm actually working on a bit of a project where I intend to design my own multiplayer RPG
"Hang on, you can't just make your own game like that and expect it to Work"
I know this.
When I say "Design my own RPG" I'm really just writing a long and elaborate text document explaining all the elements of the game from features to mechanics and the reasoning behind them. This is an entertaning thought process to me, and I enjoy figuring out how to make things work together. I also have no genuine aspirations of ever actually producing anything, but it's a tremendously satisfying creative outlet.


You can read more about this project of mine, here.

Spoiler

Your interest is appreciated, this will be a summary of some of the core elements of the game, that has yet to even be given a proper name. lel

A lot of my inspiration comes from what I see in existing games already, so there is likely to be a lot of comparisons to other games throughout.

I wanted to move away from the often seen 3rd person, hotbar, tab-target, hack'n slash, gear grind MMORPG's and go more in the direction of an immersive singleplayer-worthy experience in an open World.

I try considering everything from a "realistic" perspective to support it with logical reasoning within a fantasy universe. My intentions with this is to get rid of illogical or outright silly mechanics that make no sense, other than to restrict the players instead of making consequences for stupid decisions.

It's an unrestrictive 1st person open-world sandbox with themepark sprinkles, in which players are pretty much free to do whatever the bloody hell they want. Explore on their own, make a guild, build a city, engage in politics, wage war, whatever. With the addition of more themepark-ish events occuring like threatening boss monsters showing up or something like that.

I seek to make core mechanics, like moving around, combat or spellcasting, be interactive and fun to play around with.

I seek to eliminate stat dependency on gear, and instead design these things from a logical perspective where different types of armour functions a lot more like utility rather than an armour score that reduces xx% damage. Such as heavy plated armour being virtually impervious to bladed weapons while being vulnerable to maces, and lighter armour being less impairing allowing for more acrobatic performances, albeit much less viable on an actual battlefield.

I also seek to completely eliminate the massive gap between lower level and higher level players. A sword is going to hurt no matter who's holding it, a low level player should be able to play with or against higher level players provided he's good enough. There won't be massive differences in stat scores to set players apart, the biggest difference will be that higher level players will just have unlocked more "toys" (skills or whatever) to play with.

I want to make crafting (both equipment and buildings) focus a lot more on the creative aspect of it, allowing players to customize the appearance of the items they make.

Interest, questions and suggestions from my peers are a major motivator. If you're the type that likes these things like I do, you're more than welcome to see the full current document

 

[the_retro_gamer]

Something along the line of EVE online and less of WoW. I like the idea of the player base creating a meta game and playing the game around that. Also I would like less of a gear treadmill. One of the major gripes I have with WoW is you leave for two months or take a break from it and come back just to find out all your gear is outdated. I really don't have the time to get all the top tier gear again which leaves me out of all the raids and whatnot. Bottom line I would like MMO to be more sandboxy and less of a theme park MMO.

And welcome to the Escapist forums by the way.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

I'm an avid MMO player, I've played WoW, Everquest, Rift, Planetside, Elder Scrolls Online, Neverwinter and probably some others.

Hey, welcome. Me too. I've played all those and then some. =)

You'll find there's very little MMO discussion here on the Escapist. Insomuch as we even talk about games here on the Gender Warfare and Conspiracies forum. Most of the time when MMOs are brought up it's to slam them, or ponder about their virulent addictiveness. "I have no time for MMOs" says the gamer on his 53rd replay of Deus Ex.

Lately I've been getting the impression that people are getting fed up with the common MMO's out there "It's a WoW clone" "All you do is grind" "Everyone just rushes to max lvl to get epics" and so on.

I'm a bit fed up with loot/level theme parks myself. Not because I don't enjoy them, but because WoW still looms over that game space, and the endless attempts to ape its game play conventions invariably end up disappointing. There's near bottomless room for innovation in the genre, and we keep getting retreads of one tiny corner of it.

You might enjoy this video:

I feel like I'm missing the aspect of player interaction because it's necessary. I find that the games that look interesting to me, aren't really challenging at all.

While I agree with you to a point on challenge (the decline of challenge in MMOs has been somewhat overstated...even the oft-derided for its difficulty WoW has extreme challenge at the high end), I disagree strongly on "necessary player interaction". At last count over 60% of MMO players prefer to solo, and that number has been rising steadily. Games that forced player interaction or assume a "raid or die" mentality at end game (Hello Wildstar!) tend to flop dramatically. You can ENCOURAGE player interaction, or gives players INCENTIVES to play together. If you try and force them, they'll resent it, and view your game as functionally broken.

What would you want from an MMO? Or any online multiplayer at all really. Certain features? certain mechanics? certain areas of focus like well written lore or a particular type of gameplay mode?

As stated, I want innovation. I want new ideas brought to the space. And I think in order to have a successful MMO you have to put a premium on world-building. Core mechanics such as movement and combat are also extremely important, but the world has to feel engaging and expansive. People have to want to inhabit it for long periods of time. If it feels too "gamey", your immersion collapses. And MMOs more than most titles rely on player immersion and suspension of disbelief, because the minute to minute game play can often border on the mundane.

 

[nomotog_v1legacy]

I want to see a mmo with the level of interaction you find in divinity original sin. Like you would be able to steal items off store counters. Move boxes around to make stairs or block a trap. You could complete an entire dungeon completely in stealth without killing anything. Basically I want a mmmo that is open in gameplay not simply world. I want every encounter to have many valid tactics and ways to complete it outside of combat.

Another way to put it, I want a Deus Ex mmo that plays like Deus Ex.

 

[Zhukov]

I want a PvP, team-based, player-driven sandbox with overarching objectives and decent gameplay.

So, something like EVE Online but with a lot less EVE Online.

Not remotely interested in MMORPG/WOW-style stat-em-ups. Y'know, where you stand here and the enemy stands over there and you hit each other with numbers until someone falls over. Dull as ditchwater.

Oh, and decent aesthetic design would be a nice bonus. MMOs have some of the consistently most shitty character designs in gaming. Way too many overdressed, poorly animated motherfuckers covered in "epic" armour and particle effects.

Closest I've come to getting hooked on a MMO is Planetside 2. It's basically Battlefield but 10x as big and with crummy graphics. However, that game lacked the overarching objectives. There's nothing to work towards, you just fight over territory, then you come back the next day and fight over it all again.

Day Z is also pretty damn cool, and I'd consider that to be similar to a MMO, albeit a small one. Sadly it also lacks overarching objectives. You just scavenge to survive until you realise there's nothing to work toward and get bored.

 

[Racecarlock]

My problem with MMOs and RPGS in general is the grinding. Sometimes, leveling up is fun if the game has great combat. But most games just say "Hey, beat up these guys" and then you see some animations and some numbers flash up. That's not fun. You know how in skyrim you can shout people off of mountains? I want more of that. More stupid, crazy ragdoll physics would be awesome.

Another problem is loot, and the fact that they're focusing on the fact that you get a thing. You can't do anything new with it, and it's basically the same as other things but with bigger numbers, but it's a thing. You know how saints row IV had new moves to unlock and new powers that all had different effects? I want to see more of that. Like, what if parkour was an unlockable ability? And what if you could find boots that could make you jump further.

I don't get the whole loot obsession. I mean, it always basically translates to "You found a thing! In a game! How amazing!". Either it's useless so you sell it for money to get new things to do the same shit you've already been doing except slightly faster but not really because you just end up going after monsters that are a slightly higher level so you do the same amount of damage anyways, or it's a new thing that does slightly more damage so you go after higher level monsters and basically do the same amount of damage anyways.

"The game is fun when you reach level X". Yeah, because I wanted to test my patients when I bought a game. Who needs to unlock cool no vehicles and abilities gradually but also be fun from the start like in just cause 2 when you could spend part of the game half asleep from grinding? Yeah, that sounds fun. It's as if some games are more about testing how faithful you are to the hobby rather than just being fun. And then I'm at fault because I'm not patient enough. I don't like being bored when I am playing something that's ostensibly labeled as an entertainment product. Apparently I'm supposed to ignore that or else be labeled as someone with ADHD. Fuck that. I want to have fun in my games. Is that too much to ask?

 

[Jandau]

First of all, I'll tell you what I don't want (mind you, these are my opinions, I don't maintain that they should apply to everyone and everything):

PvP - I've yet to see PvP in an MMO that isn't either terrible or pointless. If we talk about structured PvP, then it's either dominated by gear or the playing field is artificially leveled through standardized PvP gear/stats. The first one gives a massive advantage to some people while everyone else serves as cannon fodder, while the second one makes it pointless in the context of an MMO. Open world PvP is even worse, because on top of the earlier problems, it's either too open, which allows endless griefing, or it is controlled and directed, which means you might as well not bother. All in all, I prefer to take my PvP tendencies out in actual PvP games, not in MMOs.

Sandboxes - You might say "But why wouldn't you want a Sandbox? Think of all the freedom and player generated content!". To that I reply that for every awesome EVE online story there are thousands upon thousands of man hours of nothing happening at all, of jack shit going on, of petty crap being bickered over. Sandboxes always feel like I'm wanking around, praying for something interesting to happen. Also, sandboxes tend to bring along the worst that world PvP has to offer, which salts the wound for me, so to speak.

I'm not saying I abhor any trace of these two in an MMO. I don't mind PvP being present in the game as a side dish that I never have to go near. I don't like when it's forced on me or when it interferes with my game. Likewise, I don't mind a touch of Sandbox, just a bit of freedom in an otherwise structured experience.

Now, as for the stuff I want in my MMO:

A good, solid pre-max level experience - I like leveling. Not so much being at the level cap. Once I hit max level, I tend to lose interest after a while and start working on alts. So if a game gets good only at max level, I tend to dismiss it. It should be good right from the start.

Small scale group content - This is my favourite part of MMOs, the Dungeons. Not raids mind you, as those tend to be either mindless zergfests or fascist autocracies. No, what I enjoy is 4-6 people getting together and engaging in challenging content that they overcome through teamwork. Running a good Dungeon with a few competent players is my "Awwww Yissss!" moment in MMOs. As a result, I almost exclusively play Tanks and Healers in MMOs. But overall, I expect fun and challenging Dungeons throughout the game and especially at max level.

There are other things I value, like an interesting setting (story isn't as important, but the setting needs to get its hooks in me) and aesthetic, a varied selection of classes/builds, a good interface, a reasonable learning curve, etc.

Now, you might say "Go play WoW, you scrub!", but the fact of the matter is, WoW doesn't really offer what I want. Pre-90 the game is pointlessly easy (everything got nerfed into the ground) and small-scale group content is trivial and an afterthought, which saddened me when I came back to the game last winter. I enjoyed Vanilla and TBC WoW, as they were right up my alley, but its current incarnation offers little that I enjoy.

I'm currently playing Final Fantasy 14 and while I'm only a few weeks into the game, it seems to have most of the stuff I want in a game like it. Leveling is fun and varied, the setting is enjoyable, the Dungeons are starting to get tricky past level 30 and are very satisfying to clear, the playerbase is friendly and competent for the most part, PvP is there but isn't in no way shoved down my throat. My one major complaint is the lack of class builds, as you are very limited in how you can customize your character. But that is mitigated to some extent with the multiclassing system, and I can live with one downside.

 

[CrazyCapnMorgan]

I want a PvP, team-based, player-driven sandbox with overarching objectives and decent gameplay.

So, something like EVE Online but with a lot less EVE Online.

Not remotely interested in MMORPG/WOW-style stat-em-ups. Y'know, where you stand here and the enemy stands over there and you hit each other with numbers until someone falls over. Dull as ditchwater.

Oh, and decent aesthetic design would be a nice bonus. MMOs have some of the consistently most shitty character designs in gaming. Way too many overdressed, poorly animated motherfuckers covered in "epic" armour and particle effects.

Closest I've come to getting hooked on a MMO is Planetside 2. It's basically Battlefield but 10x as big and with crummy graphics. However, that game lacked the overarching objectives. There's nothing to work towards, you just fight over territory, then you come back the next day and fight over it all again.

Day Z is also pretty damn cool, and I'd consider that to be similar to a MMO, albeit a small one. Sadly it also lacks overarching objectives. You just scavenge to survive until you realise there's nothing to work toward and get bored.

So, something like Just Cause 2, MMO style? If so, I might think about getting into such a game.

OT: For me, I like a decent story in my games, MMOs included. WoW seemed alright, at first, but the more I played it, the more it felt...eh, "dis-jointed" for a lack of a better term. Right now, I'm liking FF14: A Realm Reborn, though I'd like it even better if I could get a full time job to pay for a subscription to it. >_>

 

[MrSir231]

I personally want Sword Art Online with actual nervegear, but my wants are more fantasy at this point.

 

[Keoul]

I'd like more Action MMOs like Vindictus but from a more reliable publisher.
I like playing WITH people not against people so a monster hunter esc game would be perfect. Making friends and forming raid parties to fight 'Shadow of the Colossus' sized bosses would be pretty damn sweet.

 

[MHR]

What people want from MMOs is the stuff they can't get. They want challenging and rewarding multiplayer aspects and cooperation but they don't want to actually have to form groups and play with other people to do ANY of the content. They want limitless playability and progression but they don't want to grind for any of it.

They want the formula mixed up, but things like Guild Wars really don't change much, they just make a realistic projectile collision system and replace healing and tanking rolls with a stupid dodge-roll mechanic. However things like Planetside 2 and Divinity currently exist, so search me as to why there aren't other types of MMOs.

 

[anthony87]

For me it's down to the people I play with. I would've stopped playing WoW a long time ago if I hadn't joined the guild I'm in and gotten to know the people on my raid team.

 

[small]

for me star trek online is a good example of what i want from an MMO. i can play it on my own when i choose to and i can just play the story missions without having to grind gear. grinding gear so you can grind more gear looses me completely.

so yes story keeps me playing

 

[StriderShinryu]

My personal preferences in an MMO are a little weird because I want two things that seem a little contrary to eachother. I want a game with a well realized world and characters, with included mechanics, to actually support and encourage role playing. I feel that getting players together and having them build a fiction and a narrative is extremely important to making an MMO feel alive even when there isn't always shiny new content to devour. But, that all said, I am really annoyed with MMOs that force players into organized group activities. Your entire game shouldn't boil down to "do PvP or raids because that's all the content we have and you can't get any decent loot/gear/etc. if you don't." I tend to spend a lot of my MMO playing time actually playing solo or in random groupings that just happen out in the field and being forced into doing group content to get anything done or anything interesting just turns me off completely.

 

[Teepop]

Too many people, too many priorities.

I want action combat, a lot of players prefer the old hotkey tab target style.

I want high end graphics, a lot of people playing on low cost laptops prefer WoW style.

I want less grinding, a lot of players have more free time than me and would burn all the content too quickly.

I want less random loot, a lot of players love the "buzz" they get from random loot.

 

[EyeReaper]

I want more MMO's like Guild Wars 2, really.
Most MMO's cost like, fifty bucks off the bat, then have the gall to charge subscriptions as well (WoW, Wildstar, ESO) or are "free" 2 play. Guild Wars is just a lump sum once. I love the fact that there's a focus on single player, with instances generated for you and your friends. It's hard feeling like the hero when hundreds of others are there doing the same thing you are, but most importantly, I love the fact that dodging an attack isn't based on a Dodge chance percentage or anything like that. You dodge by hitting the dodge key.

So yeah, what I want from MMO's is less WoW-clones, and more GW-clones.

Oh, and a real world Sword Art Online .Hack//... and a Nintendo MOBA.

 

[Autumnflame]

give me sword art online and i would be so happy

and yes i want an ultimate permadeath game. buy you get one life thats it

 

[michael87cn]

i want everquest and ffxi. the WoW style rewards a selfish player and the old style rewards the social player. back in the day you really got to know the people behind the avatars, THROUGH text. Now, the only way to do that is through voice chat with all of its downsides... and that just does not appeal to me at all.

 

[DanielBrown]

I want a medieval styled fantasy MMO that doesn't feature the action-oriented combat which has gotten so popular lately. Great, lengthy dungeons that require tactics and teamwork to get through rather than facemashing are very welcome. I also want lots of classes with very different playstyles, that all contribute to the groups in their own way, since I'm a mad altoholic. A lengthy journey to reach level cap is favorable since I prefer leveling to end game griding.
The story matters little to me as I tend to just skip the quest text, though it's nice to have when I finally decide to do a playthrough where I read everything.

...LOTRO was my perfect MMO, but then it got worse with each expansion. :C