What do you think about "grey" morality in video games?

[Smooth Operator]

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I'm not saying they need to break the sound barrier with every new game, but a bit of progress in this area would be nice.

The ye olde Bioware that made Baldur's Gate got it down alot better then this new wave, and all that was really different was lack of visible morale mechanics.
And your party members weren't just stuffed in your pocket to pick out at your convenience, if you wanted someone to leave/join you needed to tell them that, then they would go on their merry way and it would strain the bond of your relationship, and if they had stuff to do they would be absent, they felt like people living in a world.
And people were not psychic, if you stole shit and noone spotted you they never knew, but if they caught you shit hit the fan big-time.
Plus your conversation was not color coded for good/bad guy response, it was just you talking to people.


It takes little spice to change a dish they just need to be a smart about it.

 

[srawcripts]

Holy snip

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I thought this was about theories... I sorry I typed too much...
I can't really see a clear line between good and bad choice anymore...
I just see a tool used by game developers to split the story to get more game play...
I have a problem with Deus Ex and Witcher which are both Action-RPGs. The action makes it fast pace and the role playing means I guess you playing the role of the character. So, I guess that makes all your choice your choices... So if there are just choices like choosing a gun or an augmentation. Or moral one like saving the hotels daughter from her pimp... I don't really care it the choice was good or bad. ( I shocked him, because I that it would be funny.)
Thanks... Deus Ex was a good game... It didn't matter how you got there as long as you got there... But added a moral system like in Mass Effect would hinder that core principle.
So, if a moral system adds to the game and make it better then great... But it think it is stupid to use it to determine equipement or ability...
You make my head feel funny...( I saved the Rachni Queen because I felt bad for it.)(I brainwashed the Geth for a chance of peace being Shepard and all)
Off to watch Futurama...

 

[Wayneguard]

I really wish more games would add options to be self centered or heroic-yet-corrupt or basically, other reasonable options that would constitute "bad karma" or "evil" without being fucking psychotic and homicidal (i.e. like dark side in kotor).

 

[I Have No Idea]

Morality in games is something that games haven't truly succeeded at. Mass Effect, Fallout, etc. did succeed, don't get me wrong. There were many choices in both games that I had trouble making. But what really hit home in those games, were choices where there was no clear cut right or wrong. This "grey" area is severely hampered by the fact that many games that incorporate morality do it in a very "gamey" way. For example, the Paragon/Renegade bar, Karma, BioShock's ADAM, and so on. Many times this makes the direct benefit to the player (points, so to speak) the sole reason for whatever is decided.

TLR- - To really reach the level of moral awareness in video games, there needs to be more choices A) without no clear right or wrong answer, with all the repercussions laid out and B) more choices that have to be made in the heat of the moment, because many times in life that's how we decide things.

 

[Totec]

Morality is hard to pin down. Just ask philosophers, they have been trying to figure out exactly what morality is for the longest time, with many different schools of thought on the matter. This is a complicated subject and will take a long time to pin it down in a form that is approachable in a story.

-------------------------------- My 2 cents----------------------------------
Personally, I'm inclined towards the anti-realist morality view. Specifically I favor the Meta-ethical relativism view of morality [link]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_relativism#Meta-ethical[/link]. This basically means that I believe that all judgments of what is good or bad ultimately boil down to the individual and their experiences, biases, prejudices, and desires.

So IF I were to make a morality system it would be a system that would be focused around determining the type of response the player likes the most, and be completely separate from feeling any outside pressure.

To elaborate. I wouldn't have a "good" or "evil" option. Those words have society's stigma attached to them, and really don't serve to make the player feel more connected to the character.

Instead I would have a color wheel, but instead of colors there would be personalities descriptions: I.E. Loner, Romantic, Assertive, Passive, utilitarian, & spiritual. Each decision you make in a game earns you a set point value (either positive or negative) for each value.

Then you can have specific conversation options, skills, companions, equipment, etc. linked to a certain personality value. Moreover, you can even have some in game features linked to balancing, or polarizing certain personalities.

This would give a much more compelling morality system, and each choice wouldn't have the stereotypical "right" and "wrong" attached to the morality subtext.

 

[Booze Zombie]

I have always been interested in this concept in games. What are your opinions?

It can't just be there for the sake of it, it has to hold meaning.

 

[SirAroun]

we need more of it, if done well

 

[Captain Epic]

I can only recall one time when a moral choice was done incredibly well in a game. The mission "Oasis" in Fallout 3. You discover a small society of people who live in a small forest area in the wasteland. You later learn that all the life is growing out of a giant sorta master tree that was joined with a man somehow (can't remember the details). The tree is slowly growing putting the man in incredible pain. He requests you kill him. The people of Oasis worship the tree like a god. You overhear a debate between the town leaders regarding the tree. Afterwards each of the leaders gives you a potion or something like that. One potion accelerates the growth of the tree and one stops the growth.

The choice you are faced with at the end of the mission has you at the tree/man's heart with three options. 1. Burn the heart, killing him. He is spared of his torture but the religion and society of the people are ruined. 2. Speed the acceleration, spreading the plant life farther in aid of the wasteland. Doing this ruins the culture of the people and puts the tree/man in an even worse state. 3. Stop the growth. The people of oasis keep their culture forever. The tree is only slightly aided as it must still remain alive but under less pain.

The great thing about this choice is that there is no clear good/bad. You don't get a message pop up with "positive/negative karma added". You just do what you think is right.

 

[ChupathingyX]

I can only recall one time when a moral choice was done incredibly well in a game. The mission "Oasis" in Fallout 3.

Have you played New Vegas?

Because the entire main quest decision is one big piece of grey morality.

Not to mention all of the companion quests and other quests that involve decisions where you do not gain or lose karma depending on your choice and yet they still make an impact.

 

[Captain Epic]

I can only recall one time when a moral choice was done incredibly well in a game. The mission "Oasis" in Fallout 3.

Have you played New Vegas?

No I have not. I actually wasn't that big of a fan of Fallout 3, but I got it for 20 bucks so worth it. I figured that I didn't wanna spend 60 bucks on New Vegas, but after hearing a lot of good things about it, like a less gritty story, factions, better combat, and grey morality, I might pick it up when it's cheap.

 

[Fbuh]

It's how i normally play, honestly. Take Fable, for example. I like the idea of a hero that is simply just a person who finds out they have magical abilities. Supreme good or supreme evil can be fun to play as, but let's face it, a grey character has more fun. Just your average, run of the mill hero, here to make a profit, maybe sleep with some wenches, and perhaps even do a little good. An actual person, in short.

 

[Dusk17]

It needs to be done well and not put in just for its own sake (it must enhance the story). Also it cant be done just so the game can be called "dark and edgy."