overpuce said:
Or by the time they get where they are going the human race has gone extinct on earth...
What is this Pandorum anyway?
What do you think id the most likely for interstellar transit
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Or by the time they get where they are going the human race has gone extinct on earth...
What is this Pandorum anyway?
You seem to know your stuff, so I'll pawn this question off of you.Joccaren said:
Are wormholes actually real? Like, have we ever discovered a stable one, or traces of one?
Thus far: No. They are theoretically possible, but if they do exist they would be tiny and unstable. If we found one or made one, it would most likely collapse within a fraction of a second. Maybe it would be possible to stabilise them, but until we find or create one, I don't think we can answer that question.JoesshittyOs said:
The first most realistic way is huge capital ships with a self sustaining Eco-system. They would slingshot off the planet Jupiter and head to a near by system like Alpha Centauri.
Couple of pesky logistical issues that I haven't seen brought up yet, a ship traveling at near the speed of light would be a fragile thing. Colliding with even the smallest of objects at that speed ('that' speed being a speed that would have any hope of getting us any where in a relatively short time frame) would fuck us up good. Not to mention all of the harmful space radiation that we're thankfully protected from down here under our atmosphere. We'd have to figure some way around that.
First will no doubt be near light speed travel, sure it's not all that sophisticated but the time distortion would allow the traveler to cover great distances even if we won't be around to observe them.
And then there is a huge logistical gap because we don't even have physics that would allow anything faster, let alone dreaming of working prototypes.
The way we are progressing it will be another few thousand years before we get there, and then we can pick up all the cryo-ships we sent out earlier
And then there is a huge logistical gap because we don't even have physics that would allow anything faster, let alone dreaming of working prototypes.
The way we are progressing it will be another few thousand years before we get there, and then we can pick up all the cryo-ships we sent out earlier
The only concept that's been confirmed as a mathematical possibility and not in violation of special relativity is the Alcubierre Drive concept, in which exotic matter particles (negative mass, negative energy) are used to warp space around an object. Hence, FTL distance and travel time while not actually having velocity greater than c (3.0*10^8 m/s).
Space elevator to a space station. That means rockets will not need to fuel (Which is a lot of fucking fuel) To actually get off the ground and escape Earth's orbit. Maybe there will be more than one space elevator. An elevator per country or those who can afford it.
I don't see that it is possible to keep sending ships up from Earth as space travel gets more important.
I dunno. :L
I don't see that it is possible to keep sending ships up from Earth as space travel gets more important.
I dunno. :L
That's definitely a good starting point. Something that is at least mathematically possible, and consistent with known theory.bz316 said:
It basically demonstrates mathematically, that while nothing can technically travel faster than the speed of light, you can apparently distort space sufficiently to have the same effect in practice.
Problem is, FTL travel, if possible at all will likely depend on some as of yet unknown area of physics.
Even the Alcubierre drive depends on somehow creating matter with properties which no known matter has. (negative mass & energy).
But... With these kind of things you take whatever loopholes you can get.
I suspect the Alcubierre drive is more plausible than a wormhole, because mathematically you need the same kind of exotic matter to traverse a wormhole without collapsing it as you would to create an Alcubierre drive.
And you'd then have the added complication of needing to either artificially create a wormhole too, or find a naturally occurring one somewhere first...
I read a paper not too long ago that posited we may be able to use dark energy in the future to affect the properties of mass. the theory was that it expands the universe by affecting mass by making it less dense. the less dense, the faster it goes hence why the universe can theoretically expand faster than c.
The probel with reaching or exceeding light speed is that you become more massive the closer you get to it. Once you reach lightspeed, you are infinitely massive. If we could tap into that, we could use it to affect the properties of the mass (ship) and exceed the speed of light without becoming infinitely massive. Time dilation however is another matter.
The probel with reaching or exceeding light speed is that you become more massive the closer you get to it. Once you reach lightspeed, you are infinitely massive. If we could tap into that, we could use it to affect the properties of the mass (ship) and exceed the speed of light without becoming infinitely massive. Time dilation however is another matter.
overpuce said:
I agree on some points, but I have to add a few corrections, if I may.AgentNein said:
Firstly, it's common misconception that "nothing can travel faster than light". This is theoretically not true. The reality is nothing can accelerate to speeds faster than light. If something is already moving faster than light; or could be made to travel at those speeds without accelerating (theoretically possible); then that something can go at nearly any speed it wants. Therefore, faster-than-light travel is possible.
Secondly, dark energy may not be energy at all. The name "dark energy" is simply a moniker applied to the perceived force that is causing the expansion of our universe; at an ever accelerating rate. Therefore, it is not fully understood. So "using" it, in any form including using it to travel at the speed of light is something you only see in science fiction. Also, dark energy and dark matter are not similar in any regard save for both being "mysterious".
Actually, scratch that. They are also similar in that they theoretically exist everywhere around us. Even in the space between you and your computer screen. So if one did find a way to harness it, you wouldn't have to go anywhere to collect it.
Thirdly, as far as I'm aware the LHC has not yet created any artificial blackholes. Theoretically it can but I do not believe they've actually detected any thus far.
You are correct that, in theory (that word comes up alot doesn't it?), blackholes can possibly bend space-time enough to form a bridge between two points in space. In essence, creating a "wormhole". There are a few problems with this, though. First, it's thus far not full understood exactly how blackholes function. Second, to generate a blackhole you'd need an immense amount of mass in one location; compressed to near infinite density. (something a particle accelerator won't really help with) Thirdly, even if you managed to create one and even if it proved to be a Einstein-Rosen Bridge, the tidal forces you'd face simply traversing the thing would tear you apart.
Now, you're final point is one I agree with. A "generational" space craft is, so far, the best option we have for interstellar travel. In fact, it's the only option that's seemingly viable for the foreseeable future.
It's not without it's issues though. But propulsion isn't one of them. As you said, an ion drive is one option. Solar sails are another; for part of the journey anyway. Another is a matter/anti-matter drive. That latter of which would provide FAR greater thrust but is problematic because, even after decades of making the stuff, we've only a few grams of anti-matter stored worldwide. (if that)
The real issue is power. No matter how efficient you make your crafts systems, energy loss will occur. As such, over the incredible lengths of time it will take to travel between the stars, your craft will inevitably run out.
Now in-system, as in within range of a solar mass, you could use an array of solar panels to supplement your power supply. But the majority of your journey would be out-of-range, so the panels would be useless mass during most of it. (which would make it more difficult to accelerate to speed, making one wonder if they're even needed)
So again, the problem is power. It's the biggest hurdle we face in the prospect of interstellar travel.
Well....that and cost/resources. The time, money, and resource requirements you'd need to build such a massive craft would be incredibly immense.
This is the essence of the theoretical "warp drive". A concept that existed before Star Trek; and one I think, if real, offers the best chance for interstellar travel.bz316 said:
Though, it relies quite heavily on near pure imaginary particles actually existing. So...
But then again, exotic matter is also theorized as a means to keep macro-wormholes stable. So I suppose either method of travel is as "feasible" as the other. In a way.
Well, not necessarily a structure reminiscent of a present day elevators, i.e a shaft with a box inside that goes up and down via cables, but tests have proven successful on elevators powered by magnets. Magnets solve bloody everything.Quaxar said:
It's basically a slim 'tube' with magnets lining it, that can be controlled to push a surface upward or downward.
Again, at this point its just confirmed as a pure exercise in mathematics that's also consistent with the theory of special realtivity. It's important to keep in mind that Einstein's paper on general relatively and the subsequent evidence supporting it confirmed that space-time is a malleable thing, that can be altered based on circumstance. The problem is, that circumstance is virtually always a massive gravity source, like a sun or black hole. The trick is doing the task in a very precise way in a small area, which only works mathematically with the inclusion of a negative mass/negative energy component.CrystalShadow said: