What do you think is the current state of WRPGs?

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TD_Knight

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Dec 22, 2011
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Really depends on what your definition of a WRPG, or even just an RPG, is.

Most people have all sorts of different opinions of what an RPG should be and there's no real common consensus other than that RPGs have to have some combination of stat management, XP, phat lewtz to be categorized as an RPG.

And even then, you don't particularly need those above mentioned things to make an RPG.

Should RPGs be turn-based or real time? Party based or rogue-like? Should they have a focus on exploration? Do they need to have gathering/crafting mechanics? Do they need dialogue choices and a malleable story? Should they be skill based or chance based?

There's quite a bit of variance in the genre, and different RPGs offer different things.

Stuff like Torchlight/Diablo II are rather simple 'kill stuff, get loot' types of games, but they still offer a lot of customization and build options that can affect how your character goes about killing stuff, e.g. throwing barb or whirly barb? Werewolf druid or werebear druid? Trap assassin or melee assassin? Bow or Javazon?

However, in terms of dialogue and story, it is rather linear and the player has no affect on it.

Bethesda games offer players a big wide world to explore and mess around in, and, by and large, give players the freedom to most anything they want. But this sacrifices the importance of the main plot in favour of side quests/faction quests, crafting, levelling, exploration etc.

Bioware games tend to be party-based with a focus on story, dialogue and characters, but tend to constrain player choices over the main plot and leave them to make choices that only affect side characters/places. So, in Dragon Age: Origins, there's never a way to not become a Grey Warden, as no matter what you do Duncan will conscript you and will drag you to Ostagar. And though you can role play a sulking jerk who hates Duncan, you still can't really disobey him since his orders move the plot forward.

However, you can make choices in hub areas that do make changes to the story and world, though in more of a minor way. So, choosing the werewolves over the elves, or Bhelen over Harrowmont, destroying the Urn, letting Flemeth go etc, does have consequences, but it doesn't really change the fact that you gotta kill that Archdemon.

Moreover they tend to railroad players at times, and the way they sometimes forcibly move the plot forward without player consent kind of... annoys some RPG players, to put it mildly.

Personally it seems that anything that offers players the ability to customize their characters and alter their play style in some fashion would be alike to an RPG.

Something like Bastion, for example, allowed players to customize their own play style by choosing two weapons and one skill from a plethora of options, and also allowing them the choice of what weapons to upgrade first. Simple, and lacking in stat management, to be sure, but it was enough I guess.

As to the shift towards more skill-based, action type RPGs... I really don't mind. Maybe I'm just cynical towards RPGs, but after a few hours of grinding levels and buying/finding uber gear, you'll eventually make the combat such a breeze that your character/party will be running around one-shotting most mobs outside of bosses, at which point there's... no real point to combat. All that's left is to explore, mop up side quests for cash/XP (though there's no real point by this stage other than being a completionist) and finish off the story.

RPGs just seem to get easier the more time you put into them, unlike most other games which drip feed you new skills and enemies to keep you on your toes and learning. Once gear and min/maxed talent builds start overtaking a player's actual skill in winning combats, challenge goes out the window and all that's left is story and loot.

Dark Souls at least made it that even if you were high level and in uber gear, you can still get your ass kicked if you play like a moron, and I'd prefer something like that than having my ME1 Uber God Tank Soldier Shepard running around spamming Master Immunity with a 100% uptime, slowly beating enemies to death with melee attacks simply because they literally couldn't hurt him.

TLDR: People need to reach consensus on what constitutes an RPG, as most people's preferences based on early experiences of RPGs probably colours their opinions on more modern RPGs.
 

an874

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Jul 17, 2009
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TheMagician said:
I think both action games and WRPGs are converging in a singularity. Action games are getting more RPG elements, and RPGs are becoming more action-oriented because they're both aiming at the same target: a game where you can pretend you're an action hero all the time. Eventually, they will just be persistent action/RPG worlds where you just live a SecondLife as James Bond or Conan. Turn off chat to be alone. Turn it on to socialize. The action genre is in as much danger of disappearing as the RPG genre.
I generally agree with this, but I don't see this as a bad thing. Something like the trend you mentioned just seems like a natural evolution of game genres. I look forward to whatever happens next.
 
Jan 18, 2012
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In terms of story and characters, I think western RPGs have the advantage. With the "moral choice system" your main character can at least act like they're the hero and the different. In many JRPGs, the protagonist is usually some angsty, emo, jerk who does good, but seems to suffer from borderline depression. WRPGS also give the option to customize your character's appearance and combined with different speech options (usually from Bioware or Bethesda games) makes you feel like you are actually contributing to the story.
 

TD_Knight

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Dec 22, 2011
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Gennadios said:
From watching Shephard pile all his specialists into a shuttle to leave the Normandy helpless...
Well, whilst that incident was a way to get the plot moving forward, the Normandy's a stealth ship, and I don't think anyone figured that the Collectors would be able to find the ship again, bearing in mind it's technically a different ship, and would be able to paralyze it with it's cyber-warfare thingamabob.

So it wasn't completely unreasonable, I suppose.
 

Gennadios

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TD_Knight said:
Gennadios said:
From watching Shephard pile all his specialists into a shuttle to leave the Normandy helpless...
Well, whilst that incident was a way to get the plot moving forward, the Normandy's a stealth ship, and I don't think anyone figured that the Collectors would be able to find the ship again, bearing in mind it's technically a different ship, and would be able to paralyze it with it's cyber-warfare thingamabob.

So it wasn't completely unreasonable, I suppose.
When you say not completely unreasonable, keep in mind that the game's point is to gather the most competent and cunning crew in history, If the best he could do was partially reasonable, that's already a failure on his part.

It was obvious from the moment Miranda opened her mouth that it was a stupid idea, I wanted to find the dialogue option of "I never needed to take all my specialists on a single mission before you stupid c***, get the hell of my ship." Alas, no such option in sight.

Mind you, a competent writing team could have instead come up with a mission that storywise REQUIRES all specialists, or have more than 2, or two better written lines justifying the decision.
 

G-Force

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Jan 12, 2010
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Thanks for the reply to my question. I guess the big point is how much should stats matter in an RPG game. I can kinda understand the larger emphasis on action due to how much combat is involved in RPG games. I guess many developers realize is that if players are going to spend most of their time in combat, they might as well make that element of the game enjoyable to play.
 

Condiments

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Jul 8, 2010
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Anthraxus said:
Again, I'll quote Vault Dweller, who said it best in his review of Oblivion... "A action RPG for casual players ? Brilliant !! Why ? Any gripes with the action elements will be met with, well it's really an RPG. And any complaints about the RPG elements are met with, well this isn't your grandpas RPG with dice rolls and stat checks, it's an action RPG, for the next generation, duh !
Yeah very true. Current described "WRPGs" are mostly action RPG and action adventure games with RPG elements. I have nothing against these types of genres, but we're simply getting less variety these day with all this genre consolidation. Where are my cRPGs, tactical RPGs, RTwP, or turn based RPGs?
 

Fishyash

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Dec 27, 2010
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As we know them, they are heading in a direction where they shouldn't really be called RPGs, they are definately going the action game direction. Is it for the better?

Well, for people who prefer the stats/strategic gameplay that the older video RPGs had, then no.

However, I am indifferent on it. I enjoy both the action and strategic styles of gameplay when it comes to RPGs. The problem is though that statistics tends towards the strategy playstyle than the action one. Statistics in action games are hidden usually, and the fact that action games are based on your skill, rather than your statistics.

Most RPGs nowdays are action games, with few mechanics from P&P RPGs.
 

Andy Shandy

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Jun 7, 2010
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In the past couple of years or so we've had Dragon Age 1 and 2, Deus Ex: Human Revolution, Mass Effect 2, Fallout 3 + New Vegas, Skyrim, Dark Souls and more. WRPGs are doing pretty good right now. Sure, they may not be "pure RPGs" but they are all excellent games.
 

Smeggs

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Oct 21, 2008
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TheMagician said:
I think both action games and WRPGs are converging in a singularity.
God, I hope not. I thought Singularity was a pile of shit.
 

hazabaza1

Want Skyrim. Want. Do want.
Nov 26, 2008
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Andy Shandy said:
Dark Souls
WRPGs.
...Didn't do much research, did you?
OT: I think both categories of RPGs are doing pretty good to be honest. People criticise JRPGs for stuff like Final Fantasy, and Star Oceans or whatever, but seem to forget the Two Worlds( Two worldses?) and Dragon Age 2s that mark WRPGs.
 

Lunar Templar

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Sep 20, 2009
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not much to be honest. i've been playing Xenosaga prt I and Persona 4 lately.

and RPG is an RPG to me, if its good i could care less what side of the water its from