What do you think of a ban on larger size drinks?

[RustlessPotato]

Le snip

the only thing I found on this matter is just a correlation between soda and osteoporosis. That's all it is, a correlation. Not a causation.

Also, I don't get the notion of "empty calories". A calorie is a unit for energy, just like Joule is. You can't have, for example, an "emtpy" second, can you? A second, Calorie, a meter are just units of things.

It's a dieting term rather than a scientific dietary term, referring to calories that you take in via food and drink that serves no nutritional purpose.

In the modern lifestyle, finding sufficient calories to survive is not a problem. Indeed it's the OPPOSITE problem, healthy living today requires finding the nutrients you need to survive, without taking in TOO MANY calories and turning into a lump of lard

So, while an apple for example actually has a fair amount of calories, it also comes packed with vitamins - ie for the calories you "spent" from your daily intake, you got something worthwhile out of them. By contrast, a soda has no nutritional value whatsoever, a 2 litre gulp will consume almost HALF your daily calorie intake (For a typical, semi-sedentary person), making it much harder to go through your day without taking in too much...



The fundamental problem, and why they felt the law is nessecary, is quite simply that people are somewhat in denial about these simple mathematical facts of life. At the end of the day your body mass is a simple equation. If energy in is greater than energy out, you get fat... nothing more, nothing less, therefore to stay healthy you need to balance both values.



- Your lean and healthy European friend.

Aaah, I understand now, thank you. I'm not much of a soda drinker myself. I know how the body works though, I'm a Biomedical Sciences student. I just didn't understand what you meant with "empty calories", but now I do.

Your lean and healthy Belgian Friend (Yes, i'm from the Old World ! Isn't that a plot twist worthy of M.Nigh Shyamalan ?)

 

[Korolev]

It's a piece of fluff legislation that won't do anything to stop the obesity epidemic. Obese people have a problem with their neurological appetite control - leptin isn't working the way it should (we still don't exactly know why - it might have something do with bound leptin not being able to make its way into the CSF, or something like that).

When Leptin doesn't work the way it should, people feel compelled to consume sugars and fats and high-energy foods. You can stop the cup size from being larger than a certain diameter, but you're not going to stop obese people from feeling the need to eat or drink the amount they want.

This won't change anything. Actively regulating the amount of sugar that can be added to such drinks might - but people would just add the sugar themselves. Prohibition doesn't work, regulating food size and ingredients probably won't work. Once you're obese, it's INCREDIBLY difficult to lose the weight permanently. I've seen the stats - about 3% of obese or overweight people manage to successfully diet.

The obesity problem has no quick fix. It requires education and lots of it. The current generation of obese people are done for - they'll almost certainly never lose the weight, unless we got surgery done for all of them, which is just not feasible. Rather than trying to reduce the weight of the current population of adults, we should just cut our losses and focus on preventing the next batch of children from being overweight. And that requires education - lots of education on nutrition. It also requires the government to help subsidize nutritious foods in schools. It's a difficult problem that requires a difficult, costly solution - not some publicity-stunt, band-aid fluff legislation that won't change anything.

I like Bloomberg. But this legislation accomplishes nothing.

 

[Superior Mind]

Dammit I am free to be manipulated by pricing and business models to consume as much of a company's product as they can possibly ram down my throat! I fight to protect the right to act and be treated like the human garbage disposal unit that I am!

That being said I get the argument that people should be able to drink as much soda as they want. My argument to that would be that it is up to the community or the Government to correct an environment where people are over-consuming to such an alarming degree that it is impacting negatively on others. No-one is stopping people from consuming as much as they want but if you're not presented with an over-large bucket of chemicals and sugar then you are less likely to consume an over-large bucket of chemicals in sugar.

I don't know anyone who would intentionally decide to consume 2 litres of sugary fizzy beverage at once. This is less about restricting an individual's rights and more about regulating industry to make sure they're not poisoning the populace.

How does me drinking a large soda effect the populace? And people aren't brains was they can tell how much soda they're going to get wen they buy it.

Well if someone is silly enough to drink bucket loads of soda on a regular basis they'll get fat. And the fatter people get the more unhealthy they get. This can and has become a burden on the health system in the same way smoking has. Not only that but when you get the mega fatties you have to actually take their extreme girth into account with other things. I have to give my bus seat up for a fatty because they'r legs can't hold up their own girth. Buildings have to be re-planned with wider doorways and bigger seats, things need to be reinforced all at a cost. These are extreme examples sure, but it is what is happening.

I didn't understand your second sentence entirely. I think you're saying that people are smart enough to know how much they're drinking so they won't guzzle things indiscriminately. Supposedly taking away two litre jugs of syrup water is just going to make someone buy two one litre jugs. Certainly nothing's stopping them from doing this, they're smart, they know how to work the system. Thing is they're not and they don't. If someone is offered a mega pail of sugary chemicals for a price that suggests that it's a far better deal than buying the slightly smaller pail of chemicals they will buy the bigger one. I'll give an example:

Say you're given two options. One cup is one litre and costs $2. The other cup is two litres and costs $3. Our brains are smart enough to calculate that if we buy the bigger cup we're getting a full 100% more beverage for only 50% more price. Regardless of whether we even want two litres we're going to be inclined to go with the bigger cup. They do it at places like McDonalds with the whole super-size thing. "Pay only an extra fifty cents and we'll give you twice as much soft drink and salted potato strips." We think "We'll I'm already spending $5.50 or whatever and an extra fifty cents would give me all that extra stuff totalling only one sixth of my total bill!". So we go for it. We end up spending more for bigger quantities of a product we don't even want.

People aren't always dumb but we can be easily manipulated.

And I can appreciate that people don't like the nanny state trying to protect themselves from themselves. I get that. I say if someone's dumb enough to stick their dick in a power socket then that's their fucking right. But when people are too stupid and greedy to protect their own health to the extent that my healthcare is impacted negatively or I have to stand up on a bus because some fat fuck doesn't have the leg muscle to support their own torso then I do think it is the role of the community to step in to identify and fix a potential problem.

 

[chiggerwood]

- You can longer order anything larger than a 6oz steak.

I would start a fucking war! I may lose, but I'd lose with a 12 oz Porter house in my stomach, and a smile on my face. They may take my life, but they'll never take... MY STEAK!

What's the problem? You can just order two separate steaks now. See? It doesn't affect your life in anyway.

At twice the price. All joking aside it's not that, it's a matter of principle. I don't need, nor do I want any bureaucrats dictating how much, or what a establishment, serves. It's a simple matter of overreach. As long as the food passes standards they should be able to serve it. I don't go to restaurants, or convenience stores to be healthy. I go there because I want something that taste good, or is cheap and plentiful. If a restaurant chooses to serve only 6 oz steaks I'll be fine with that, I can easily go somewhere else for my giant steak. If a convenience store decides to limit the size of their fountain drinks I'm fine with that. However if a private business is being forced to do these things by any government agency then there is a problem of over stepping authority. My health is not the governments concern, it's my own and that's the way it should be.

 

[Naeras]

American "large" isn't equal to a large in the rest of the world, mind you. It's equal to "humongous with two XLs stripped to it".

 

[RyuujinZERO]

We think "We'll I'm already spending $5.50 or whatever and an extra fifty cents would give me all that extra stuff totalling only one sixth of my total bill!". So we go for it. We end up spending more for bigger quantities of a product we don't even want.

Intresting. If the problem boils down to that, perhaps legislation should enforce a pricing-by-mass system, or subsidise smaller meals - to actually ban them from selling stuff in that way. If people paid for what they needed instead of being encouraged to buy bigger then by your reasoning they should start buying smaller, more reasonable size meals.

 

[ninjaRiv]

As an outside observer of American culture, I have to say those drinks are fucking crazy. Whenever I see them on TV I worry for the state of the persons heart! And bladder!

 

[Chairman Miaow]

snip

It's a shame a lot of people seem to have ignored your wall of text. This thread is full of people who just seem to be going "I LIKE SODA AND I'M FINE SO SHUT UP!" It's sad really when it probably is the number 1 health risk when it comes to food and drink. Diabetes, heart disease, obesity, the absolutely ridiculous amounts of sugar you get in even small cups of these drinks is dangerous.

People who drink just one 12-oz. serving of soda or other sweetened soft drinks each day have a 15 percent higher chance of developing type 2 diabetes, and those who drink two servings increase their risk by 26 percent, according to an analysis of data from 11 studies performed by researchers at the Harvard School of Public Health and published in the November 2010 issue of the journal "Diabetes Care."

Why are other people getting diabetes your concern or the government's concern? They clearly chose soda over not having that extra risk of diabetes. That's their choice and none of your business.

It is my concern, because I don't like the thought of people killing themselves because they want a soft drink. But as I said in one of my other posts, and as the guy I quoted here has said, this isn't the way. Education is the best way.

 

[Yopaz]

I think either soda is bad, and it should be banned outright, or soda is ok and shouldn't be regulated. There is no law preventing you from buy 10 cartons of cigarettes or 50 bottles of whiskey. Further they don't limit the amout of soda you can purchase, just the size of the cup. People can still get 2 smaller ones if they want, or constant refills. The whole idea just doesn't make sense.

Well, that depends on how you look at it. If someone stops by and buy a small cup of soda then leaves and if someone stops by and buys a large cup of soda then leaves one will clearly get a lo more soda than the other. If someone really doesn't have anything better to do with their time and thinks that spending their day at a convenience store is a day well spent then it wont make a difference. However for parents who buys their kids a soda when they're driving somewhere preventing them from buying a large cup because the kids are whining about how they want a big cup rather than a small one is actually not a bad idea. Kids don't know enough to care about the health issues that they might have to deal with later.

I will agree that I don't think this will change a whole lot, but I appreciate that they are trying.

 

[Bvenged]

2 Liters? Do they really sell drinks that are Two liters?! How did it take so long for someone to even consider this ban?

I mean, what the hell? I think here in Sweden 0,5 liters is the largest we've got.

Same here in the UK.

A big mac is the size of a fist and a large drink is half a litre. Large fries are a fist size again.

All in all for a large meal you eat two fist sizes of food, plus a half-litre drink which you gulp down, all over the course of half an hour or so. That in itself is a genuinely large meal, larger than that is just irresponsible, especially if you don't have a fit lifestyle. Even for what it is, eating that much fast food often is irresponsible to your health.

It's a step in the right direction for the most obese country on the planet.

Spoiler: Minor derailment:

I also think morbidly obese people here in the UK should be forced onto weight loss programs at the NHS's expense, which if they refuse to endure properly, are force to pay for their NHS costs of additional services or hospitalisation.

You pay National Insurance for unexpected treatment, as in, you fell down the stairs and need a splint, or your balls exploded and need stitching up; not because your lazy arse loves to eat burgers and you don't care about your size or health.

Putting on massive weight can occur inconspicuously and losing it can be hard, which is why the NHS should pay for you to do it whilst helping you along the way. Putting on dangerous amounts of weight beyond that through negligence and arrogance/ignorance/obnoxiousness costs hospitals a lot to treat you, probably more than you've paid in National Insurance, which means the rest of us have to help foot your bill. At that point, you should be loaned the money to pay for your treatment instead, which you will pay back.

 

[benvorbeck]

do what you want, just leave my beer alone!

 

[Kordie]

I think either soda is bad, and it should be banned outright, or soda is ok and shouldn't be regulated. There is no law preventing you from buy 10 cartons of cigarettes or 50 bottles of whiskey. Further they don't limit the amout of soda you can purchase, just the size of the cup. People can still get 2 smaller ones if they want, or constant refills. The whole idea just doesn't make sense.

Well, that depends on how you look at it. If someone stops by and buy a small cup of soda then leaves and if someone stops by and buys a large cup of soda then leaves one will clearly get a lo more soda than the other. If someone really doesn't have anything better to do with their time and thinks that spending their day at a convenience store is a day well spent then it wont make a difference. However for parents who buys their kids a soda when they're driving somewhere preventing them from buying a large cup because the kids are whining about how they want a big cup rather than a small one is actually not a bad idea. Kids don't know enough to care about the health issues that they might have to deal with later.

I will agree that I don't think this will change a whole lot, but I appreciate that they are trying.

So you're saying because a parent might be retarded enough to buy their child his own weight in cola, we should ban the sale of large cups. Every rule governments try to make about diet is putting a band-aid on the issue of their shitty education. Focus on that, if you honestly think that the public is too weak willed or stupid to feed them self properly, then look at how they are educated. And if an educated person, who knows what risks they are taking, wants that 2L cup of cola, let them. It's their choice. Last, IF the big complaint is that unhealthy food creates unhealthy people which creates more stress on the healthcare system, then there is another simple route. Fat tax. Unhealthier something is, the higher the fat tax, and more money going into health care.

 

[Yopaz]

I think either soda is bad, and it should be banned outright, or soda is ok and shouldn't be regulated. There is no law preventing you from buy 10 cartons of cigarettes or 50 bottles of whiskey. Further they don't limit the amout of soda you can purchase, just the size of the cup. People can still get 2 smaller ones if they want, or constant refills. The whole idea just doesn't make sense.

Well, that depends on how you look at it. If someone stops by and buy a small cup of soda then leaves and if someone stops by and buys a large cup of soda then leaves one will clearly get a lo more soda than the other. If someone really doesn't have anything better to do with their time and thinks that spending their day at a convenience store is a day well spent then it wont make a difference. However for parents who buys their kids a soda when they're driving somewhere preventing them from buying a large cup because the kids are whining about how they want a big cup rather than a small one is actually not a bad idea. Kids don't know enough to care about the health issues that they might have to deal with later.

I will agree that I don't think this will change a whole lot, but I appreciate that they are trying.

So you're saying because a parent might be retarded enough to buy their child his own weight in cola, we should ban the sale of large cups. Every rule governments try to make about diet is putting a band-aid on the issue of their shitty education. Focus on that, if you honestly think that the public is too weak willed or stupid to feed them self properly, then look at how they are educated. And if an educated person, who knows what risks they are taking, wants that 2L cup of cola, let them. It's their choice. Last, IF the big complaint is that unhealthy food creates unhealthy people which creates more stress on the healthcare system, then there is another simple route. Fat tax. Unhealthier something is, the higher the fat tax, and more money going into health care.

Read my post again. I never said I thought this was a good idea. I just said that at least they are trying something.

Yes, the children should be better educated on health and diets and such. However children aren't the problem here, parents are. If parents are retarded and buy their kids unhealthy food then educating the children wont do a thing. IK'm not American, but I am willing to bet most parents are out of primary school and don't have someone to babysit them anymore. Yes, this is stupid, I wont argue that. However if you want to fight stupidity with education you need to reeducate the adult population. You also need to consider that the most important education that shapes you as a person and shapes your habits come from the people around you while growing up.

Seriously, go back and read my post and you'll see that I don't believe this is a good idea, but your idea ignores the fact that there's more than one source to the problem.

 

[Kordie]

I think either soda is bad, and it should be banned outright, or soda is ok and shouldn't be regulated. There is no law preventing you from buy 10 cartons of cigarettes or 50 bottles of whiskey. Further they don't limit the amout of soda you can purchase, just the size of the cup. People can still get 2 smaller ones if they want, or constant refills. The whole idea just doesn't make sense.

Well, that depends on how you look at it. If someone stops by and buy a small cup of soda then leaves and if someone stops by and buys a large cup of soda then leaves one will clearly get a lo more soda than the other. If someone really doesn't have anything better to do with their time and thinks that spending their day at a convenience store is a day well spent then it wont make a difference. However for parents who buys their kids a soda when they're driving somewhere preventing them from buying a large cup because the kids are whining about how they want a big cup rather than a small one is actually not a bad idea. Kids don't know enough to care about the health issues that they might have to deal with later.

I will agree that I don't think this will change a whole lot, but I appreciate that they are trying.

So you're saying because a parent might be retarded enough to buy their child his own weight in cola, we should ban the sale of large cups. Every rule governments try to make about diet is putting a band-aid on the issue of their shitty education. Focus on that, if you honestly think that the public is too weak willed or stupid to feed them self properly, then look at how they are educated. And if an educated person, who knows what risks they are taking, wants that 2L cup of cola, let them. It's their choice. Last, IF the big complaint is that unhealthy food creates unhealthy people which creates more stress on the healthcare system, then there is another simple route. Fat tax. Unhealthier something is, the higher the fat tax, and more money going into health care.

Read my post again. I never said I thought this was a good idea. I just said that at least they are trying something.

Yes, the children should be better educated on health and diets and such. However children aren't the problem here, parents are. If parents are retarded and buy their kids unhealthy food then educating the children wont do a thing. IK'm not American, but I am willing to bet most parents are out of primary school and don't have someone to babysit them anymore. Yes, this is stupid, I wont argue that. However if you want to fight stupidity with education you need to reeducate the adult population. You also need to consider that the most important education that shapes you as a person and shapes your habits come from the people around you while growing up.

Seriously, go back and read my post and you'll see that I don't believe this is a good idea, but your idea ignores the fact that there's more than one source to the problem.

You may need to read my post again as well. You mention parents making bad decisions, kids not knowing about healthy choices, and say (while it probably won't do much) that you appreciate the effort. That all points me in the direction that you think it's a good idea. Maybe not the best idea, but a good one. So that's where I got my misunderstanding.

I am saying that the solution is better education of both parents and children, for children it's all about schooling. For parents, it's about getting the info on the food out there in other means, obviously they wont be in school but that's not the only place education happens. Put the information on the cup, just like cigarettes (i.e. A big gulp has 186g of sugar in it, compared to a cake that has 100 FYI I looked it up, those numbers are right). Put out public awareness ads on TV. Billboards, or internet campaigns, there's plenty of venues to teach on. In the end, if someone still wants to drink it that's their call. As heartless as this next bit sounds, but if someone can't be taught the dangers of it, they can drink them self to death. Just the same as any other vice. People can gamble their livelihood away, they can drink them self into a coma (liquor), they can smoke them self till they get lung cancer, or hell, they can go stare at the sun until they go blind no matter how much we say don't stare at the sun.

And last, I recognize that another aspect of this argument is the health costs. That is why I suggested a fat tax for unhealthy foods. That creates more revenue to put into the health system that can help offset the increased costs of treating the obese, or the funds can go into the education programs I suggested. Focus on better education and you can curb a lot of issues. The reason they don't sell this size drink in other places is because there isn't a market for it, not because those people have governments looking out for them.

As another example, when KFC introduced the double down they originally didn't sell it in Canada because the government tried to stop them. It didn't take long for the people to say "we don't want the government deciding what we can't eat". To this day I don't know anyone who has ever had one, but we have the option to. And no one want's it because we all know how bad it is.

 

[Yopaz]

You may need to read my post again as well. You mention parents making bad decisions, kids not knowing about healthy choices, and say (while it probably won't do much) that you appreciate the effort. That all points me in the direction that you think it's a good idea. Maybe not the best idea, but a good one. So that's where I got my misunderstanding.

I am saying that the solution is better education of both parents and children, for children it's all about schooling. For parents, it's about getting the info on the food out there in other means, obviously they wont be in school but that's not the only place education happens. Put the information on the cup, just like cigarettes (i.e. A big gulp has over 300g of sugar in it, compared to a cake that has 200 FYI Just making those numbers up). Put out public awareness ads on TV. Billboards, or internet campaigns, there's plenty of venues to teach on. In the end, if someone still wants to drink it that's their call. As heartless as this next bit sounds, but if someone can't be taught the dangers of it, they can drink them self to death. Just the same as any other vice. People can gamble their livelihood away, they can drink them self into a coma (liquor), they can smoke them self till they get lung cancer, or hell, they can go stare at the sun until they go blind no matter how much we say don't stare at the sun.

And last, I recognize that another aspect of this argument is the health costs. That is why I suggested a fat tax for unhealthy foods. That creates more revenue to put into the health system that can help offset the increased costs of treating the obese, or the funds can go into the education programs I suggested. Focus on better education and you can curb a lot of issues. The reason they don't sell this size drink in other places is because there isn't a market for it, not because those people have governments looking out for them.

As another example, when KFC introduced the double down they originally didn't sell it in Canada because the government tried to stop them. It didn't take long for the people to say "we don't want the government deciding what we can't eat". To this day I don't know anyone who has ever had one, but we have the option to. And no one want's it because we all know how bad it is.

OK, so you talk like you expect people to be reasonable and smart most of the time. You are clearly intelligent enough to consider your bad diet choices and I am guessing you could even give me some explanation that would explain why it's bad too. Most of what you have said here gives me the impression that I am talking to someone smart.

However you are completely ignorant of a massive part of the American population. If this was a problem that could be fixed with a few billboards and campaigns it would have happened by now. There are plenty of attempts in the past, a huge part of reality TV is about fat people trying to lose weight which actually gives a deep explanation of the health risks and proper diets. I have even seen that there's a pamphlet in McDonalds meals which explains about proper nutrition and informs how much of the different nutrients can be found in the meal you just ate. I know they have been trying to get people to change by informing them. It just doesn't work.

Also I don't think you are heartless when you say that people should be allowed to pick their poison. Lose their property while struggling wth gambling addiction. However if that was the only propblem. Knowing, consenting adults screwing up their lives I would be OK. However unknowing ignorant children getting their lives screwed up because their parents are stupid is something else entirely. You can screw up your own life all you want, there's a difference when you screw up someone else's life.

Also I ignored the part about taxing unhealthy food because everyone else does. Tax unhealthy food all you want, people still buy it. They do the same thing with pretty much everything. Gas prices increased because it's bad for the environment, yet people drive just as much if not more.

In a perfect world your idea would be great. In a perfect world your idea would probably not be necessary. This world is however not perfect.

You want to focus on education rather than restrictiction and well, education is always a good thing... Did you seriously choose to ignore the massive part of my last post that explained why the was useless?

Also to clear up the misunderstanding. I don't think the idea is great. I do however think that it's great that they are at least trying something.

 

[Estranged180]

I think the most hilarious thing about this entire thread is that I was reading it while drinking a 1.5 liter bottle of Pepsi (to be had for $0.99).

Mr. Bloomberg needs to stfu. That simple.

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