What do you think of soldiers?

[Ziggy109]

I airsoft on and just outside of a military base, and as such a large majority of the guys I play with are soldiers. That said, they're no different than anyone else. Some are knobs, some are good guys, and some are just funny as hell to be around.

... It sucks when they're on the enemy team, though. All that training goes a long way on the field.

 

[TheDrunkNinja]

Whatever their reasons, whatever their beliefs, they put their life on the line so that I don't ever have to.

They don't have my blissfully unyielding praise, but they damn well have my respect.

 

[the clockmaker]

I Can not stand them I just Despise them. Hang on I will explain.

Soldiers are the very definition of lawful neutral Trained to kill on command by the government and never have a say in it.

In addition to that some of them are easily the most arrogant most disgusting excuses for Human beings I have ever met they murder countless people and for what? Nothing, To many people consider "Soldier" to mean the people on our side and the opposing side to be monsters nothing could be further from the truth.

Every person on either side who dies is someones Child or parent or lover and they all die for pointless reasons and people try to justify it and that fucking disgusts me.

I always say that All soldiers should get another job because the one they have is just a pointless waste of human life.

I understand how that can be seen as offensive and I'm sorry if you were but they are just one type of people I wil never have any respect for.

In my eyes there are only 2 types of Soldier

1) the trigger happy ones who think war is great and always look down on people with other jobs (the ones I hate)

2) the poor sods who are ripped from their Family's knowing that they will more than likely die and will never see them again (who I have only sympathy and pity for)

Hooray for ignorance.

I'm not going to even get into this anymore, maybe later, but right now this sort of naive, detached from morality nonsense just makes me tired.

Look at it-the pointless the unironic use of the word always, the failure to understand the realities of the world we live in and the arrogant assumptions to the characters of millions of people who you do not now, nor will likely ever understand.

 

[Stryc9]

but I don't think that being a killer makes one an automatic hero.

Can we stop this please? Not everyone that joins the military is a killer, sure for the most part they all receive some measure of combat training but not everyone that puts on the uniform goes into combat. Some of them become office workers, some of them become mechanics, some of the even *gasp* become medics that train to save lives rather than take them. There are a wide range of non-combat jobs in them military.

I respect military personnel about as much as anyone else, maybe a little bit more because about 99% of my family has some degree of military service to their name but I'm far from the kind of hero worship that some people slather on them, which honestly I don't think most people in the military would really expect or want.

 

[Thaluikhain]

but I don't think that being a killer makes one an automatic hero.

Can we stop this please? Not everyone that joins the military is a killer, sure for the most part they all receive some measure of combat training but not everyone that puts on the uniform goes into combat. Some of them become office workers, some of them become mechanics, some of the even *gasp* become medics that train to save lives rather than take them. There are a wide range of non-combat jobs in them military.

I respect military personnel about as much as anyone else, maybe a little bit more because about 99% of my family has some degree of military service to their name but I'm far from the kind of hero worship that some people slather on them, which honestly I don't think most people in the military would really expect or want.

Not to mention, military police. If we are to assume that the military is made of subhuman killers or whatever, they surely policing them is a good and noble thing?

 

[Lovely Mixture]

Do we get points for believing we are doing the right thing? There are very very few people who legitimately believe they aren't doing the right thing. Even when people understand they are doing something morally wrong they justify it by believing they are doing more good than harm. When Mao initiated the great leap forwards he did it with the best of intentions; but it got tens of millions of people killed. Jumping in and trying to do the right thing only means something if you take the time to understand what you are doing and why.

It was more figurative than literal. I don't think the Mao example works 100 percent in this case, but I see what you're saying.

What I mean to say is that there's a difference between:

Going to war with a sense of reason and restraint (Erwin Rommel)
Going to war with the desire to kill people and wipe them out (Interahamwe)

That's not to say that the former is never corrupted, considering dogmatic behavior and Milgram's experiment. There's also the deal with specific situations that lead to horrific events (My Lai massacre), but people should be held accountable for their actions.

But it is kind of messed up when I go through my thoughts and I realize that my mind finds the Japanese bombings (including Hiroshima and Nagasaki) more justifiable than 9/11.

 

[FreakofNatur]

I personally respect any working soldier. They are making a huge sacrifice in terms of personal development by letting themselves go on rails for the rest of their working life. Most people nowadays have very strong aspirations and dreams due to international exchange of ideas and exposure to information about "career-minded" success stories and it is indeed a lot to tell someone to give up all they know of the modern world and conform to a very much traditional form of work and thinking.

Soldiers, having been one myself for 2 years, are pretty sad when it comes to administration. Simply because there is a hierarchical system, it is absolutely necessary to pander to the superior's expectations and "work methods" because he is "superior" in all manners of the word. That said, they should let administration be done by office professionals rather than trying to handle it themselves - soldiers are specialists, not generalists. It's also unfair to ask a soldier to be multi-talented in and out of the field when the job(of being a soldier) is supposed to be a very traditional model of objective-based work. Complexities have arisen from the idea of accountability(because of democracy, anti-corruption and transparent governance) and these should be addressed by professionals, not soldiers asked to learn and adapt to office life as well as field life in a rag-tag hasty sort of way.

Professionalism in military is hard to find due to the lack of specialization in many Militaries. As I have said, there are so much demands for soldiers to be generalists, and it's unfair to do so especially given the nature of their work. It's not simple anymore to be a soldier, and I feel that it's a loss instead of a gain.

 

[Veylon]

Going to war with a sense of reason and restraint (Erwin Rommel)
Going to war with the desire to kill people and wipe them out (Interahamwe)

That's not to say that the former is never corrupted, considering dogmatic behavior and Milgram's experiment. There's also the deal with specific situations that lead to horrific events (My Lai massacre), but people should be held accountable for their actions.

Had Rommel lived, should we have held him accountable - and to what extent - for his work that expanded the Nazi Empire, allowing Jews to be captured and executed who otherwise would've lived? That's not just a question for Rommel, but for all those who serve those with dark aims. They are indispensable participants in making evil on a mass scale possible, yet are often let off the hook.

I view soldiering as an inherently evil and shameful occupation. A necessary one, to be sure, and one that I think everyone should perform, but not something we should see as good.

 

[Bocaj2000]

Honestly? Pity. The only soldiers I'm friends with have joined to escape their home life for one reason or another. For some, this is a way to get out of a bad situation, and for others it is to get out of their boring environment. They are not heros to me; I do not support war of any kind and, therefore, do not support the soldiers in them in any way, shape, or form. Glory is a myth and "defending freedom" is nothing different.

 

[Thaluikhain]

one that I think everyone should perform,

You think everyone should be a soldier? Why?

 

[piinyouri]

I try not to generalize and group them all together.
I've met some who did the military a great disservice by even opening their mouth, and I've met some truly inspirational, amazing people.

 

[Killclaw Kilrathi]

My opinion is that soldiers should be respected for serving their country in what is often a pretty bloody dangerous job. I maintain this opinion no matter what I think about their current mission, if I have a problem with a war I blame the politicians who are actually responsible for it.

 

[Lee Quitt]

I Can not stand them I just Despise them. Hang on I will explain.

Soldiers are the very definition of lawful neutral Trained to kill on command by the government and never have a say in it.

In addition to that some of them are easily the most arrogant most disgusting excuses for Human beings I have ever met they murder countless people and for what? Nothing, To many people consider "Soldier" to mean the people on our side and the opposing side to be monsters nothing could be further from the truth.

Every person on either side who dies is someones Child or parent or lover and they all die for pointless reasons and people try to justify it and that fucking disgusts me.

I always say that All soldiers should get another job because the one they have is just a pointless waste of human life.

I understand how that can be seen as offensive and I'm sorry if you were but they are just one type of people I wil never have any respect for.

In my eyes there are only 2 types of Soldier

1) the trigger happy ones who think war is great and always look down on people with other jobs (the ones I hate)

2) the poor sods who are ripped from their Family's knowing that they will more than likely die and will never see them again (who I have only sympathy and pity for)

I wonder how many wars you have visited to form that opinion. I'm going to say 0.

 

[Mycroft Holmes]

It was more figurative than literal. I don't think the Mao example works 100 percent in this case, but I see what you're saying.

What I mean to say is that there's a difference between:

Going to war with a sense of reason and restraint (Erwin Rommel)
Going to war with the desire to kill people and wipe them out (Interahamwe)

Of course there is. I have no doubt of the shades of moral grey that exist. I was using an extreme example to prove a point. I almost went with Hitler, but wanted to dodge Godwin's Law. My point isn't that our soldiers are Mao(or Hitler) for that matter. Only that if you can accept the idea that what Mao did was a horrifically wrong act that he did it with the absolute best of intentions(the belief that he could birth a tomorrow without prejudice, where mankind would share and work for the betterment of all,) but that we should judge him by the measure of what he did and not what he wanted to do; then you must do the same for any US soldiers.

Yeah some of them join up for a job, some join up to be assholes, and a whole lot of them join up at least in some small part because they want to give something back to their community and serve their nation. But if you accepted the pretense of why a lot of people hate Mao despite his beautiful vision of an ideal future, then you should be able to understand why I am hesitant to think that these soldiers who sign up to help others are such great people when the by-products of their actions tend to be death and poverty. Their effects are not nearly as pronounced nor as 'evil' as Mao's, but I can not commend them for their well-intentioned failures.

That's not to say that the former is never corrupted, considering dogmatic behavior and Milgram's experiment. There's also the deal with specific situations that lead to horrific events (My Lai massacre), but people should be held accountable for their actions.

And what about when it is the byproduct of their un-evil actions that still wreak damage? Massacres may be the most visible parts of the war for us to protest against, but they are by no means the most insidious. Of the 30 million civilians killed in WW2, the bulk of them weren't massacred. The bulk of them were killed in the 'justified' and celebrated actions of soldiers fighting a war and trying to win by whatever means necessary; even when it involves attacking population centers, even when it means bombing food transports is just as likely to starve civilians as it is soldiers.

No one would ever hold them accountable for the invasion of a land with a dictator in it like Iraq. But all their 'commendable' actions have done is ruin the Iraqi industry, create millions of refugees, leave them with massive power shortages, lack of clean water and sanitation, result in the deaths of over 100,000 confirmed civilians. And now as they stand on the brink of a civil war with over 300 casualties from sectarian violence today alone, with Anbar threatening war and various Sunni leaders demanding the dissolution of the country and a reformation into a group of federated nations, most of the population is wishing that Saddam was back in power.

 

[piinyouri]

one that I think everyone should perform,

You think everyone should be a soldier? Why?

Indeed, I'm curious to know why they think this too.
I do get defending your country and being honorable, but some people are just, plain and simple NOT cut out to be soldiers.
Having these people on a field of battle would be a liability. Which is why I've always thought a draft is a kind of strange idea from conception.

 

[Lovely Mixture]

Had Rommel lived, should we have held him accountable - and to what extent - for his work that expanded the Nazi Empire, allowing Jews to be captured and executed who otherwise would've lived? That's not just a question for Rommel, but for all those who serve those with dark aims. They are indispensable participants in making evil on a mass scale possible, yet are often let off the hook.

Who says they're let off the hook? Depends on the cases, and I certainly don't do that.

General Yamashita, one of the few Japanese generals during WWII who actively tried to stop massacres by his own army and sometimes executed HIS OWN troops for committing massacres, was executed after a decent trial by the US Court.

He isn't vilified by history, but in no way was he "let off the hook." Like I said, they should be held accountable for their actions or responsibilities.

snip

Did you miss the part where I said "they should be held accountable for their actions" ? If you judge that their non-evil actions contributed to what you perceive as evil, then judge them for it. You are holding them accountable, and that's fine.

You can respect their intent, but that doesn't mean you tolerate what they did.

 

[GundamSentinel]

They do a job, nothing more, nothing less. I won't automatically hero worship them, but I won't automatically think of them as less than "normal people" either.

So yeah, just a job.

Same. That's mainly the reason why I won't think of them as pawns of the government or something like that, because how many of them are actually fighting for their country? I mean, how many would still do that job if they weren't getting paid for it. (and paid fairly well, I might add).

Like anyone else, just doing their job and making a living.

 

[Combustion Kevin]

I appreciate the fact they volenteered so I don't get my ass drafted, also the search and rescue work they perform at natural disasters.
or human disasters for that matter.

to form an opinion on "soldiers", I can only speak for the one's from my country, and a little bit from my neighbour's, but I'd already be generalising and I'm not going beyond my continent with that.

 

[jurnag12]

I respect the fact they're willing to put their life on the line for their country, but I'm not gonna give them any special treatment for that fact. It's just a job, whatever the risks it has.

 

[Daniel Ferguson]

I think guns and warfare is cool, in fiction, however, it is also something I'm against in practice. I'd love to shoot some guns some time - it's on my list - but I would not, and could not, go on the front lines. I've met some soldiers before, and while they were perfectly civilised to me in the brief interaction, they also scared the bajeezus out of me. You know, the whole "knowing some ways to kill me" kind of thing. Also I have hypotonia which means lack of ability to gain any strength except through specialist therapy, which makes it worse.

Hmm, captcha is "I have fallen".