What do you think of the word "******"? [LOTS OF CURSE WORDS AHOY]

[General Twinkletoes]

Question time.
If I started calling things I didn't like black, or any other racial slur regardless of their colour, people would cry "RACIST!". If I replied, "No, I just mean bad!", would you guys take that as an excuse?

Apart from the silly analogy that is completely broken, how does saying a word that has been repeated Ad Infinitum for the last two decades to the point people can't get to a consensus compare to being a racist?

Also, people who cry "RACIST!" are just massive idiots. It seems like today you can't even make a mistake with your wording, otherwise you will be instantly considered someone who defends slavery and discrimination. Some words, when in a sequence (like saying "I hate black people") still have their meaning. Perhaps if everyone said "I hate black people" all the time, it would end up losing it meaning after 20 years or so. But right now, it still means you hate black people. How does saying "******" strictly imply that you, for some reason, hate gay people and want them dead or whatever?


I'm sick of this HURR DURR POLITICALLY CORRECT bullshit in today's society, specially when I can't say "******" because it's a hateful word, but when a black person says it then it all "no, man - I am black and I am taking that word back".

So if I am white, I must be instantly regarded as a slave owner by saying a word? Because of the color of my skin? Because of my past? ISN'T THAT RACIST? ISN'T THAT PREJUDICE?

/rant

It doesn't imply that.

I know most people who say ****** are not hating on gays, it's just that it indoctrinates gay=bad. That's the reason gay is an insult, is because your comparing it with someone that's homosexual.

And why are you sick of not being able to say certain words? There's a lot of words in the english language, some of them make more sense to use.

 

[Farseer Lolotea]

I know most people who say ****** are not hating on gays, it's just that it indoctrinates gay=bad. That's the reason gay is an insult, is because your comparing it with someone that's homosexual.

And why are you sick of not being able to say certain words? There's a lot of words in the english language, some of them make more sense to use.

Yeah, this pretty much covers it.

And it should be added that complaints about "political correctness," in my experience, tend to add up to the following: "My license to be as inconsiderate as I damn well please is the most important thing here!"

 

[Grathius22]

I support gay marriage, have no problems with gays or anything like that.

However, I say '******' an extreme amount. Just kind of grew up in a generation where it's an insult to everyone rather than just a slur to certain people.

 

[ElPatron]

I know most people who say ****** are not hating on gays, it's just that it indoctrinates gay=bad. That's the reason gay is an insult, is because your comparing it with someone that's homosexual.

Do you know what "gay" even means? Or why the word was chosen to portrait homosexuals?

When I call an inanimate object "gay" I know perfectly what I am saying. I am not implying only homosexuals would like it. Nor am I saying it's wrong to have one.

And why are you sick of not being able to say certain words? There's a lot of words in the english language, some of them make more sense to use.

Yeah, this pretty much covers it.

And no, I do not have an urge to say "******". I am just saying that judging people by hiding behind "racism" is the actual problem, not "racist" people. It seems like a lot of people are adopting a holier-than-thou attitude towards life and now their purpose in society is bringing people down for stupid reasons.

The PC attitude is just an excuse to start pointless arguments and imply things about other people, NOTHING MORE.

And nice generalization, all we want is being inconsiderate, that sums it up nicely, doesn't it?

"I like Freedom of Speech because it allows me to be inconsiderate, hurr hurr" - no.

I like freedom of speech because it prevents tyranny and oppression. The PC attitude is just a way to oppress people by shaming them in public, defeating them without actually being more skilled in the use of logic and just plain WRONG.

It's prejudice at it's worse.

 

[General Twinkletoes]

I know most people who say ****** are not hating on gays, it's just that it indoctrinates gay=bad. That's the reason gay is an insult, is because your comparing it with someone that's homosexual.

Do you know what "gay" even means? Or why the word was chosen to portrait homosexuals?

When I call an inanimate object "gay" I know perfectly what I am saying. I am not implying only homosexuals would like it. Nor am I saying it's wrong to have one.

Yes, I do know, that's why it's even worse.
It was used to portray happy people, so homosexuals decided to call themselves gay to show that they were happy and cool with it. Then it got turned into an insult, only because homosexuals identified with it.

And people today, hear a ton of gay=bad, so when someone says they're gay, it freaks them out. I know a lot of people don't have this happen, but there are a lot of people, generally 11-12, think that gay people are bad, only because they hear it in a negative light all the time.

 

[Eamar]

It's an odd one. I don't think I've ever heard it used as anything other than a gay slur outside of gaming. Seriously, I never hear it used jokingly or as a general insult in every day life, unlike virtually every other swear word.

As a result, I personally still feel uncomfortable with it, and never use it myself. I'm fully aware of the hypocrisy of that, since I use other (arguably worse) words in day to day conversations with friends. I guess it's just an exposure thing.

I used to feel the same way about ****, since I never heard that in more general use either until I moved away to university. Now I use it way too much, but only ever in a joking sense and to people I know are ok with it (because I've heard them use it themselves).

All these words have double meanings though, and context is everything. Personally, I don't think I've ever used these sorts of terms as a genuine insult. I'm fine with casual use among friends, but when said with real venom and awareness of the homophobic or sexist meanings terms like "******" and "****" become all sorts of horrible.

 

[ElPatron]

snip

What do you want, it's associated with "distasteful".

Let's imagine a cartoon full of happy colors and whatnot. You paint your house that way to make an homage to the cartoon. I am going to say "Dude, your house looks gay". Because it does. There are things which can be tasteful with all it's "gayness" (toys, cartoons, videogames, whatever), but a house? Or a car? Pfft. Distasteful.

Of course it's associated with bad things, society wants you to prefer "sober" things, not just enter a classroom/meeting on a pink suit riding a rainbow colored Ferrari.

 

[Fishyash]

Every time I hear someone say it, I groan a little bit.

When I hear a stranger say it, it leaves a really bad first impression on me since it makes me think of someone who discriminates. I get a similar first impression from strangers who say the N word, and the like. It also reeks of insensitivity.

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

I call people ****** if they do something I greatly dislike. Have been since, oh... year six in primary school?

 

[ResonanceSD]

At this point in time, I think it has two meanings.

The first is a slur word for a gay man, and the second, like you said, is something akin to 'asshole', 'dickhead', etc.

Context is everything I suppose, sometimes it's hard to gauge that context.

I use it in the second context all the time. As well as "that's so gay".

 

[Daystar Clarion]

At this point in time, I think it has two meanings.

The first is a slur word for a gay man, and the second, like you said, is something akin to 'asshole', 'dickhead', etc.

Context is everything I suppose, sometimes it's hard to gauge that context.

I use it in the second context all the time. As well as "that's so gay".

Indeed, but I tend to say that phrase when I see something that is quite gay

*Sees two men ballroom dancing together rather romantically*

"That is so gay..."

Not derogatively, of course, just an observation

 

[thylasos]

It's a homophoic slur which causes me to instantly lose respect for the person using it.

There's no debate, really. If you want to act like an idiot with your friends, there's plenty of other words you can use to mock-insult each other.

Sorry to offend the Supreme Ruler of Local Multiplayer, we didn't mean to be idiots for the last 20 years.

I was going to post a rant but I seriously don't have the time to continue pointing out how ridiculous your superiority complex. I honestly think that you might have not noticed how you worded that post, but come on... it was blatantly obvious that your wording was bound to make people want to call you that word we are talking about.

It's almost as though I don't play multiplayer games online, partially due to the prevalence of immature racial, homophobic, and sexist slurs.

You too can join me on the moral high-ground when you cease using a homophobic slur in standard speech, irrespective of who might be listening and offended and the subconcious effect on attitudes and reinforcement of a hostile cultural environment.

 

[BanZeus]

People should stop being so god damn sensitive about it.

Whether or not it's meant in either context, who cares? Is it really that big a deal?

just laugh or ignore.

I use the word freely, just like I use "retard" or "autist". It's all about where and when to use it, cussing "******" near gay people that you do not know would be silly. But you really should not give a shit if it's among friends.

Words have power because they carry ideas.

[a href: http://www.wtfpod.com/podcast/episodes/episode_245_-_todd_glass]WTF with Marc Maron Episode 245 talks about this very subject.[/a]

Edit: You could skip to ~30:00 for the relevant material but the whole thing is pretty good.

 

[ninjaRiv]

Is it just me or is ****** only an insult in America? It's a food in the UK with, as mentioned, fag being a cigarette.

 

[ninjaRiv]

Well, when I say it's only an insult in America it has, of course, taken off everywhere else as an insult.

 

[Dahdutcher]

At this point in time, I think it has two meanings.

The first is a slur word for a gay man, and the second, like you said, is something akin to 'asshole', 'dickhead', etc.

Context is everything I suppose, sometimes it's hard to gauge that context.

This.


...
My captcha was to describe HP with any word(s) o_o Wth?

 

[zelda2fanboy]

Here's an idea. Maybe stop calling people names.

 

[Treblaine]

However you want to slice it, "******" was rapidly adopted as a derogatory term for homosexuals. Barring childhood innocence, people know this. And as with most offensive words and phrases, you certainly have a right to say it, and people have a right to judge your character poorly because of what you say. The fact remains that if you are willing to risk letting people feel bullied and marginalized, even if your intent is not to bully or marginalize, you still took a conscious, completely optional action that you knew could hurt people simply because you like the word. That is still a bully.

If you use of a word that can hurt someone you either A) Valued a word you like that has plenty of other, less ambiguous substitutions more then you value the well-being of fellow human beings (Translation: you're an asshole) B) You genuinely believes that the people listening are fine with the use of the word based on your personal experience with them (In which case, if they are offended, you don't have to fall on your sword, but you do owe a short, sincere apology) or C), You are a professional comedian, writer, or entertainer where the use of a offensive word serves a purpose, and the audience should expect such digressions from normal decency standards. Louis CK can say, "******" in his show because people know that he is going to say dirty, inappropriate things. If he just started spouting his act on a subway to whoever is around, that would be in bad taste. Chances are pretty good that if this conversation actually comes up in the real world, then scenario A is probably in effect.

Also, there is a serious problem with the idea of "It's used as a general insult, not a slur" This is not an excuse. The word came to be a term for gay people, used by people being cruel. But nonetheless, it still is a word that is supposed to mean a homosexual person. It is insulting to equate a word that means something bad with a gay person. If a person named Adam is being mocked, and he is called, "A total Todd", because Todd is a kid no one likes, then that insult is offensive to Adam sure, but its MORE offensive to Todd. Calling a person a "******" because they are a failure implies that Homosexual=failure. If you heard 2 gay people talking about Hitler, and they refer to him as, "A total Breeder", you would probably be offended. And rightly so! The the use of a word that means a sexuality as a word that means something bad implies that that that sexuality is inheritly bad, and the words are interchangeable.

Basically, if you use the word, "******", you own your slur. If someone is hurt, that's your fault. If everyone laughs because they understand the context, that's your boon. If you use the word for a legitimate reason and it offends people, you have to balance the true value of the message with the true value of disregarding and harming a fellow humans well-being. And if people think your a dick, that's no ones fault but your own, because you brought it on yourself. "Idiot" is one extra letter. Unless your afraid of running out of sound, theres no reason you can't use that instead.

Well "******" actually has rather complex origins, it literally means a bundle of sticks. The Italian translation of "******" is "Fascist" for whatever that is worth and Mussolini adopted it from an account made in the old Roman empire of how a sting stick is easily broken but a bundle of sticks is impossible to break. That may sound socialist but we all know it the end it became about a personalty cult with a nation kowtowing to their prejudices and whims.

In England "******" and "fag" have different meanings depending on class. In upper class "fag/******" would not be associated with homosexuality but with subservience as in rich private schools the students who entered on scholarships or simply of lower standing in the British Hierarchy were made personal servants called "faggots" or "fags" to do "fag work". Usually this consisted of giving the fag money to run off to buy good, take the flack for rule breaking or do some menial homework.

But in lower classes of Britain, "Fag" is used to describe a cigarette, either rolled or a packed like Marlborough. To smoke a fag, need a fag, smells like a fag, fag smoke, etc. To confuse this EVEN MORE the term ****** is used by lower-classes to describe meat balls.

So in the UK, "fag" and "******" have hugely lost their shock value, most see it as a strange Americanism to be used ironically.

And these rough southern American types seem to be using the term "******" more like rich private school boys in England, they are saying they are subservient and meek. Americans seem to use the "fag" NOW as synonymous with the British "poof" or "poofter" for an effeminate gay man.

****** is a term MUCH older than homosexuality has been known and doesn't actually mean homosexuality. It literally means a bundle of sticks. Context changes that.

Remember, before the 1960's the derogatory term for homosexual WAS "homosexual". Also "queer". Yet now we have "queer eye for the straight guy". Terms chance over time with shifting acceptance and realisation.

What matters is context. Saying "do it ******" to a guy who is being timid is not a challenge to his sexuality.

The MORE that the term "******" is used to describe wimpy straight men rather than homosexual men, the the less it is harmful to denigrate gay males. It is when terms are used exclusively to denigrate and set gay men apart that is the problem.

I object to the term "fag" as used in america for how consistently it is used to separate gay males as "other" either because they are gay of because they are suspected of being gay. But when a bunch of unambiguously straight macho men can un-ironically call one another a "******" for simply refusing a challenge:


In such a popular mainstream movie, this makes clear "******" is not exclusively for denigrating homosexuals. But much like "pussy" or "wimp".

Just because the word "fag" comes from "******" doesn't mean they are the same word. Just as "******" and "Fascist" have the same root they have completely different even opposite meanings. "Fag" I would consider (in american usage) highly offensive for crudely labelling homosexuals as "other" and attributing other attributes such as sexual subservience as you can find in how the term is actually used. It's used almost like the gay equivalent of "slut" which is not very nice to imply unless they really want to explicitly set out that impression.