Wushu Panda said:
BiscuitTrouser said:
Animals can be trained to make art. But they dont just go and make it. Monkeys do to a degree, but it seems to be random scrawlings, never even the most basic renditions of ANYTHING that they can see or feel or are.
Leave a person a paper and pen and they will draw something to express a relationship with themselves or something or a deeper feelings, even a feral human will attempt to draw something they have seen, even in the crudest sense. Millions of years of dinosaurs meritted NOTHING.
I mean cave men were spending 99% of their time fleeing from predators and trying to survive with barely any intelligence and they STILL scribbled renditions of real world objects and situations, i mean animals dont even make the attempt. Its always clumsy and really just an attempt to play with the pretty colours. If one dog somewhere made an attempt to scratch a dog into the dirt or some wood (it has the motor skills, why doesnt it) id buy your arguement. Not one dog has in the history of dogs. And yet we just never stop doing it. Difference.
Humans are trained in art too, wtf do you think art SCHOOL is? a place where ppl crap out a marble statue are sent to learn how to pass more through their bowels?
As as arrogant as you are, not all humans will just randomly pick up shit and start making works of art. If incomprehensible scribbles in a 1st graders notebook is art, then why isnt a monkeys?
By the way, can you please post some of your great works of art? if you want to back up your argument on how humans can create such creative works then please show us yours.
until then heres a video that does indeed prove other animals can make art.
Dont think anyone was trained at school to paint these. Please read the post, i was saying, with the example, a feral human with no training produced this. Why cant a feral animal even attempt to create art without our "help".
Basically i argue that if animals are JUST (and i mean JUST) as creative as humans, and have the motor skills to produce images with claws or limbs (they can move them meaningfully) why do they never naturally attempt art, or to draw what is seen naturally? Even in the crudest manor. And scribbling in a childs book isnt art. It has to be drawn with purpose. I can thrash a pencil on paper and it isnt art. I feel art has to convay something, and hell you can argue that elephant is showing elephant feelings. But i dont think it is, i think its just been trained to put the brush on the paper. An artist is trained how to do this, but their creations are soley personal and display everything from within. The elephant is mindlessly mimicing an action its been taught. And since neither of us can tell for sure what its doing and both our opinions are objectively equally valid lets stick to facts. The fact no animal has drawn any physical object it can see naturally without our intervention. With claw or blood or even crap it hasnt attempted it.
I mean sure we provided the paint the elephant but is it really painting something its seen or something its been trained to paint? Why doesnt any animal in the wild ever do this? Why do we need to "help" to get animals doing any art at all? It all points toward the "art" being a trained mindless action or a play kind of thing with no meaning behind it.
I never said our art was any good. Im just saying humans have been making it for no apparent reason in VAST quantities since before history records. Yet VERY VERY VERY few animals ever produce anything that could be considered art, none without our help. It isnt arrogance, its looking at facts. We drew shiz we saw like crazy, animals rarely ever try. Difference. There is one. Doesnt matter what that difference means persay, but thats a difference right there.
EDIT: The elephant might be drawing something it sees, ill grant you, and not just parroting. Even then how come we spew art out the wazoo at every oppertunity and this is the ONLY example of an animal drawing art like this around?
Im also not arguing we are better than animals. Im just pointing out that when it comes to art we are different. I say nothing about who is "better" than whom.
