What does it take to get you to quit a game?

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Raku-Gosha

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Apr 21, 2014
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Zhukov said:
Raku-Gosha said:
Zhukov said:
Bad checkpoint placement/ Also shows up in Dark Souls.
Huh. You had trouble with Checkpoints in Dark Souls? I'm not seeing it. In my experience bonfires were abundant and the level design accommodated you with shortcuts and teleporting(after you get the lordvessel) Shoot, you can exit the game at any point (so the game can also accommodate to your gaming schedule) and when you boot it back up, you're either exactly where you were or a short distance from it.

What exactly did you have trouble with in DS regarding checkpoints?
Every boss has a bit of a walk and a bunch of junk enemies between it and the nearest campfire.

So if you die to a boss, you have to walk your arse back and kill/avoid a bunch of basic enemies before you can take another tilt at the boss.

This is needless repetition and a needless waste of my time.
Yeah... no not really. I can't name a single boss that I wasn't able to reach in under a minute with full 20+7 Estus flasks from a bonfire.
For clarity's sake let's go over them shall we? (Note: just the absolute essentials side fluff like Priscilla, Helkite, undead dragons etc aren't covered)

In order of appearance (if you're playing the game in the proper order)

Taurus demon- there's a bonfire not a minute away. Run across the fire chucking bridge enter the area ignore/slay the baddies go up the stairs and ignore/slay the baddies and enter the tower. To be on the safe side I'd kill about half of the enemies or the more persistent ones, but they're the weakest mooks so you shouldn't have much trouble.

Bell Gargoyles- There's a bonfire not a minute away in the building housing the blacksmith. Only thing in your way are 3 skeletons you can run past and a handful of hollows near the ladder.

Capra Demon- You create a shortcut to Firelink shrine by opening a one way gate (where the female Merchant is) the run there is under a minute and the only enemies you'll deal with are the mooks in the beginning and a pair of thieves and dogs.

Gaping Dragon- Before entering the fight is a locked door that leads back up to the bonfire. Monsters encountered on the way to boss? 2 small rats that can be ignored.

Queelag of Izalith- There's the near unavoidable bonfire located at the bottom of blight town. if you run directly ahead from the bonfire and hug the wall you can reach her lair in under a minute without incurring the poison debuff as well. enemies necessary to encounter. zero.

Iron Golem- If you don't find this one in Sen's Fortress I can understand your rage at the run you'd have to do to get back to the boss, but if you jump off the roof where the first black markings are (locations where the Giant chucks his bombs) there is a bonfire. The trip to the giant is under one minute and once you've slain the bomb throwing giant(he doesn't respawn) there is but one archer in your way.

Ornstein and Smough- Here is where I'd assume you're complaining about. If you're using the common route of the Anor Londo bonfire than taking the elevator running across the bridge fighting past the 2 giants than entering the building to fight the 2 Royal sentinels and archer, you're doing it wrong.
Purely on a "fastest route to the boss" the bonfire where you find Solaire chilling is actually much faster. The route takes less than a minute and the only real obstacle in your way is a Silver knight who's blocking the door you need to take. Once you've slain him you can run past the halberd one go upstairs and exit only a short distance from the fog gate. You don't even have to fight the Royal Sentinel.

After you obtain the Lordvessel you're options open up dramatically but I'll continue the boss routes from the most ideal paths

Pinwheel Demon(He's next because you want the kindling)- There's a hidden wall to the left of the ladder that leads to the switch you push to upturn the bridge. From here you run down and roll past the skeletons as they form. Right before the entrance to the crypt you jump off and land on top of where Paladin Leeroys summon symbol will be If you're human from there you continue to fall and make a beeline towards the fog gate.
Enemies necessary to encounter? a few skeletons on the safe side you completely bypass the rolling skeletons and the hassle of getting down. Takes less than a minute, dudes easy regardless so this is a mute point.

Gravelord Nito- After your first bonfire there's a second one further in where you make a right along a narrow path. From here you merely follow a straight line to the boss. It takes less than a minute but the monsters you have to fight here are a bit more numerous with the 2-3 skeleton walls and skeleton giants, and some pinwheel servants. This one can be a bit of a pain I'll concede that, but you shouldn't die against Nito anyway.

After that I'd wager most savvy players would head to Darkroot Basin with the knowledge that they need the ring.

Sif- To the left of Artorias' shortcut(the wall with the glowing orb) is an invisible wall you can smack. There's an immediate bonfire right past it. Now you'll take the shortcut in front of you cross Alvinas' bridge and run straight towards the entrance. It takes less than a minute and after you've slain all the wannabe player npcs only 4 of them respawn who you can ignore entirely if you join her covenant (it can even be temporarily if you want) after that there's only mushroom children who don't engage without provocation.

Four Kings- If my first guess that Ornstein and Smough isn't where you've given up it's here. There's a substantial shortcut you can take that shortens your time down to... you guessed it under a minute. From Firelink Shrine take the elevator down to New Londo (retrigger it so it ascends back to the top, trust me) run down the steps across the bridge and into ghost territory.
Now here's the trick! the place is no longer flooded so instead of running up the steps,run to the right towards the edge of the land and fall off. You'll land in the shallow pool right after the area with a ton of Darkwraiths. Now you "CAN" entirely run past the three darkwraiths and two ghosts that spawn and enter the fog gate unscathed but it's tricky so it's safer to kill the mentioned dudes and give it another go.

Seath the Scaleless- This one appears to be a pain in the ass but isn't in fact you can make it to the boss in under a minute. from the second bonfire you find in the Crystal Archives (if you don't have it kindled you can warp to firelink shrine and warp back to this very one)
Now run to the right take the ladder and BOOK IT towards the cave. The golems will flail around, missing you by a large margin after you enter the cave you'll run past the first golem and just run run run. The Amber ones do not respawn and the butterflies are passive aggressive at worst. Now once you reach his chamber you can chose to either engage the five maneater shells or run past them. Your call.

Ceaseless Discharge- There's a bonfire under a minute away from it's location surrounded by those eggbearing guys. There is are no enemies you need to fight to reach him.

After him though things get a bit tricky. IF you already are a chaos Servant level 2 you can skip the Firesage and Centipede demon entirely. But in the unlikely event that you'd do that I'll mention them

Firesage Demon- On your way towards him you'll enter an area with a ton of capra demons standing guard (old looking ruins) Where you'll run into a grand staircase leading down. After the first set you can turn around and run along the wall (a floor under from where you have come from) there's a bonfire here. The run to the boss is again less than a minute and the run there is populated by slow moving/attacking stones and one Taurus demon you can kite past.

Centipede Demon- Literally in the area before the boss. You can not miss it. IT's atop of the branches you'll be taking down to face against him. Less than a minute. Clean run to the boss, no enemies.

Bed of Chaos- This one may be the longest run you'll have to make but it's safe. For this one I'd recommend joining the Chaos covenant and leveling it up to level 2 ( a total of 30 humanity needed. This carries over into New Game plus so don't worry about repeating this as long as you don't get wishy-washy with the covenants) From the above bonfire (centipede demon one) run back towards where you fought the Firesage demon and take a left. You'll head down a branch towards a dead end.
rigger it to reveal an incredibly useful shortcut that bypasses the entire level practically.
From here you'll run past the demon guy(there are slim chances of him hitting you so be careful) and running past the stone derps. In your first run through you'll engage the Eldest sister (she won't respawn) after that you're home free.
You'll most likely die a lot here, so you'll master the route in no time.

Gwyn Lord of Cinder- The lordvessel. This a linear run straight to the boss. Though you'll most likely have to reengage the 5 BlacK Knights as opposed to running past.

AND THERE YOU HAVE IT. Every essential boss has a checkpoint within simple reach pal. Now there's nothing stopping you besides your own stubborn bias.

Have fun.

Besides, most games set you back in some way when you lose to a boss. I'd be grateful that you don't have to slog through unskippable cut scenes before any of the bosses in Dark Souls. I'd say your ire is more deserved on games like that.
 

Ulquiorra4sama

Saviour In the Clockwork
Feb 2, 2010
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Losing any sense of urgency or connectivity to the world. I stopped playing Oblivion for this very reason because it didn't seem like anything going on in the story was that pressing a matter and the game world just left me feeling incredibly bored. While Fallout 3 managed to keep me interested in the world a bit longer i also stopped playing that since the story didn't seem to matter. Only reason i got through Skyrim was because i loved the smithing/enchanting and wanted to test my weapons on stronger enemies than the random dungeons could offer.

I'll also stop playing if a game is too difficult. Generally i'll come back to it later if i feel like the deaths/failures are my own fault, but with things like the God of War challenge of the gods and Alpha Protocol the game just feels like it wants to bash you over the head at every turn. This pisses me off to no end.

Similarly a lack of any real difficulty is a really neat way to make me lose interest. I need some sense of achievement every now and then to keep going and this is exactly what the Lords of Shadow series lacks (even on the highest difficulty).
 

Zhukov

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Dec 29, 2009
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Raku-Gosha said:
...not a minute away... under a minute... less than a minute...
Yeah, see, you keep saying that like it's a good thing.

I know about the various shortcuts you described. (Well, the ones up to Anor Londo/Sif/Pinwheel, which is as far as I ever got before having to quit lest I keel over from boredom.)

Thing is, wasting my time for under a minute is still a waste of my time for no good reason. Making me fight just four junk enemies is still making me fight four junk enemies for no good reason.

They might as well play a 55 second unskippable cutscene before each boss fight. Has the exact same effect. My time gets wasted and I get bored out of my mind from having to repeat the same thing over and over in order to get to the bit that's actually hard and fun. Just as stupid and pointless.

Hell, I'd prefer the cutscene. At least then I can stretch and take a sip of water while I wait, instead of having to mechanically go through the same motions of running for "under a minute" and killing a handful of junk enemies every fucking time.
 

Raku-Gosha

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Apr 21, 2014
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Zhukov said:
Raku-Gosha said:
...not a minute away... under a minute... less than a minute...
Yeah, see, you keep saying that like it's a good thing.

I know about the various shortcuts you described. (Well, the ones up to Anor Londo/Sif/Pinwheel, which is as far as I ever got before having to quit lest I keel over from boredom.)

Thing is, wasting my time for under a minute is still a waste of my time for no good reason. Making me fight just four junk enemies is still making me fight four junk enemies for no good reason.

They might as well play a 55 second unskippable cutscene before each boss fight. Has the exact same effect. My time gets wasted and I get bored out of my mind from having to repeat the same thing over and over in order to get to the bit that's actually hard and fun. Just as stupid and pointless.

Hell, I'd prefer the cutscene. At least then I can stretch and take a sip of water while I wait, instead of having to mechanically go through the same motions of running for "under a minute" and killing a handful of junk enemies every fucking time.

Touche.

How often are you dying to these guys, for it to get that bad for you anyway? Reading it out how I wrote it does seem like a chore, but that's under the assumption you'll be fighting them no more than 2-3 times at most ( a little more for the mechanically difficult ones like O&S, 4kings, Bed of Chaos)

While writing that out, I was sure I was helping you and others out by showing you that the treks to bosses weren't difficult or overtly time consuming. I failed to consider how little patience you or others might have and your threshold for monotony. I'll concede that some games aren't for everybody then and I've learned something in writing out a books' template worth and your 4 paragraphs.

Still you'd rather sit through long unskippable cut scenes before a boss? Really? I doubt you mean that. Especially if you're dying as often as I take it you've died in Dark Souls. That would get old incredibly fast and you can not possibly be that thirsty. :D

What kind of games don't fall under this category to you?

I'd genuinely like to know.
 

Zhukov

The Laughing Arsehole
Dec 29, 2009
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Raku-Gosha said:
Zhukov said:
Raku-Gosha said:
...not a minute away... under a minute... less than a minute...
Yeah, see, you keep saying that like it's a good thing.

I know about the various shortcuts you described. (Well, the ones up to Anor Londo/Sif/Pinwheel, which is as far as I ever got before having to quit lest I keel over from boredom.)

Thing is, wasting my time for under a minute is still a waste of my time for no good reason. Making me fight just four junk enemies is still making me fight four junk enemies for no good reason.

They might as well play a 55 second unskippable cutscene before each boss fight. Has the exact same effect. My time gets wasted and I get bored out of my mind from having to repeat the same thing over and over in order to get to the bit that's actually hard and fun. Just as stupid and pointless.

Hell, I'd prefer the cutscene. At least then I can stretch and take a sip of water while I wait, instead of having to mechanically go through the same motions of running for "under a minute" and killing a handful of junk enemies every fucking time.

Touche.

How often are you dying to these guys, for it to get that bad for you anyway? Reading it out how I wrote it does seem like a chore, but that's under the assumption you'll be fighting them no more than 2-3 times at most ( a little more for the mechanically difficult ones like O&S, 4kings, Bed of Chaos)

While writing that out, I was sure I was helping you and others out by showing you that the treks to bosses weren't difficult or overtly time consuming. I failed to consider how little patience you or others might have and your threshold for monotony. I'll concede that some games aren't for everybody then and I've learned something in writing out a books' template worth and your 4 paragraphs.

Still you'd rather sit through long unskippable cut scenes before a boss? Really? I doubt you mean that. Especially if you're dying as often as I take it you've died in Dark Souls. That would get old incredibly fast and you can not possibly be that thirsty. :D

What kind of games don't fall under this category to you?

I'd genuinely like to know.
How often was I dying? Depends on which playthrough.

On my first try at the game I died many, many times on most bosses.

Sometimes it was just due to me being thick. For instance, taking a long time to figure out that you need to plunge attack the Taurus Demon.

Other times it was due to the game not bothering to explain key mechanics. I died many times (15-20) to the Bell Gargoyles because the game never tells you that you have to be de-hollowed to summon help. So I never even knew you could summon Solaire to help you there since the summon sign doesn't even show up if you're hollow, and I was always hollow because the only use I could see for humanity was boosting bonfires. Running around human was just asking to get invaded.

I died many times (15-20) to the Capra Demon because the game does a terrible job of explaining stability and poise. I thought his attacks were unblockable.

On that playthrough I ended up fighting Sif, then struggling through the catacombs and killing Pinwheel before finally finding the door to The Depths then suddenly losing interest.

On my second playthrough I read up about various mechanics on a wiki and I had my previous experience to go on.

I killed some of the bosses on the first try. Died to others once or twice. Still didn't appreciate the benefits of a having to go for a jog between attempts. Got both bells, cleared out Ash Lake, killed Sif, killed Pinwheel, got through Sen's Fortress, got through The Painted World (didn't kill Little Miss Tail), then lost interest before meeting any bosses in Anor Londo.

Third playthrough was much the same as the second, but got bored before entering Sen's Fortress.

My disdain toward the placement of checkpoints in Dark Souls has nothing to do with the duration time spent returning to each boss. Rather, it's the fact that that time serves no purpose. It's just wasted for the sake of wasting my time.

Imagine if there were bonfires right in front of each boss's fog door. But upon entering the fog door, there was a 50 second unskippable cutscene that plays each time you fight the boss.
You might say, "This is bullshit, why do I have to keep watching the same fucking cutscene? I just want to fight the boss!"
I might reply, "Dude, what are you complaining about? The cutscene is under a minute long. Are you really that impatient that you can't wait 50 seconds?"
To which you might reply, "But it's pointless. It's 50 seconds that need not exist at all. Why not make the cutscene skippable and let me get on with it?"
I point I would have to concede, unless I was intent on zealously defending my favouritest ever game from nasty, nasty haters.

That is my position on having to spend a minute running down corridors and cutting through junk after each death. It's just like an unskippable cutscene except I have to press buttons instead of taking the opportunity to have a scratch and get comfy.
 

MrHide-Patten

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For me nowadays I don't really quit, I lose interest if something better comes along. Like it's really easily for me to lose interest in hand held games, I haven't completed a single game on my Vita since I got it last Christmas.
 

Elvis Starburst

Unprofessional Rant Artist
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Aug 9, 2011
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I don't give up on games often enough to really know specific reasons. But, I can give an example of a game I just recently quit for its own reasons. That game (Demo, in my case) was Conception 2: Children of the Seven Stars. Oh my god, what a horribly dis-tasteful game. Lemme break it down with a list...

Issue 1. Awkward story telling- The game brought me into a cutscene filled with combat to introduce the main trio. Ok, cool. Suddenly I'm at this school with loads of information being thrust into my mind. Sure, it's explained, but a lot of it feels like I'm supposed to know this. The characters sure seem to have no idea what anything is (Somehow).

Issue 2. Half voice acting- Though some may see this as a nit-pick, it drove me nuts. Every character had full voice acting for all story related text. Awesome! Even the main character spoke fully in the intro anime cutscene. And then... Suddenly it stops. He stops speaking his lines, giving little things like "Yeah!" or "What's that mean?" WHAT HAPPENED?! Why does everyone else speak fine, but the main character doesn't? Not impressed.

Issue 3. Extreme sexualization- I don't know anything about the first Conception. Given the premise of the game, I dunno how I expected anything better of this one. I thought it would be an answer to Persona with some dating sim elements. What I got was jiggle physics out the ass for the character portraits (Even changing facial expressions caused them to move. I don't even...)

Then there was the priest. Oh my god, the priest. Students in this game are called Disciples. After the MC and a side character are done talking to this guy, his character portrait blushes, uttering the words "My... We have some... well developed Disciples this year" NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!! NO NO NO! That's... Euuuugh! Why?! That's messed up! And I know he acts that way more later, as screenshots tend to have him blushing when a girl is around. Just... no man. Friggin no

Issue 4. DAT BATTLE THEME- It's about sex, basically. Let's leave it at that.

After only an hour, I quit the demo. Glad I had that chance, cause I was interested in this game. Now I'm just horrified towards it.
 

ThePurpleStuff

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Apr 30, 2010
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I gave up on Mortal Kombat 9 back when it first came out, I loved the game, and its story mode was a lot of fun and a decent challenge. But then I got up to the first Shao Khan fight with Liu Kang. I hate Liu Kang, I love Kung Lao, but nope, my favorite character had to die and I gotta play as the shittiest character. Already pissed me off. But I sucked it up and tried to fight him. I just couldn't win, and it wasn't even on a difficult setting.

If I have to do a control exploit just to beat your boss fight and get further, that's not my fault or my lack of skill. It's the developers lack of providing a good challenge that's not game breaking.

Still never touched it since, I should probably sell it... Anyone want it? It's just up there on my shelf...
 

mysecondlife

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Feb 24, 2011
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I'm almost giving up on Ni no Kuni

-Slow paced everything
-dull gameplay (I thought it was manageable until AI partners showed up)
-difficulty curve. Its hard to get through the game without AI partners dying on me and leaving me outmatched
 

Eve Charm

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Aug 10, 2011
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I think the best latest example is when I already did everything... Before you updated it. Plants vs zombies Garden warfare, Everything unlocked , every character max level, rank 153, All of a sudden , on top of the new stuff and micro transactions, We're adding another 10 levels for no reason for each character... Nah I'm done.

Also fallout 3 did this, I spend hours planning my character so on paper I could make the best possible character with what I wanted, for the level cap to increase and new perks ruining all that.


That and Rare drops not dropping after killing a long boss over 100 times. PSO, Castlevaina that Xbox live one and Soul Sacrifice.
 

IFS

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It really depends for me, there are a lot of things that might turn me off of one game that I put up with in another. I'm usually pretty careful about buying games that I'm interested in though, so usually that interest is enough to see me through to the end of the game.

In the case of SotC I've had an experience similar to the OP, I dealt with the first two colossi without too much issue but the third was a huge pain. The platforming up to him annoyed me a great deal, and it took me faaaar too long to break teh stone chunks on his arm so I could actually climb him, and then there was a lot of 'shaking so you can't do anything, ok I'm stopped, nope just kidding!' which made the fight take way too long. I do plan to go back to the game eventually as I was enjoying the atmosphere a great deal, but it might be a while.
 

mjharper

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Apr 28, 2013
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Game-breaking bugs aside, I'd have to say: stupid quicktime events. I quit Dead Space 3 because of that.
 

OpticalJunction

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Jul 1, 2011
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Annoying battle noises, long unskippable cut scenes, unreasonably difficult or repetitive combat, too simple combat, gameplay that is unintuitive and clunky, a story that makes no sense
 

Raku-Gosha

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Apr 21, 2014
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Zhukov said:
Raku-Gosha said:
Zhukov said:
Raku-Gosha said:
...not a minute away... under a minute... less than a minute...
Yeah, see, you keep saying that like it's a good thing.

I know about the various shortcuts you described. (Well, the ones up to Anor Londo/Sif/Pinwheel, which is as far as I ever got before having to quit lest I keel over from boredom.)

Thing is, wasting my time for under a minute is still a waste of my time for no good reason. Making me fight just four junk enemies is still making me fight four junk enemies for no good reason.

They might as well play a 55 second unskippable cutscene before each boss fight. Has the exact same effect. My time gets wasted and I get bored out of my mind from having to repeat the same thing over and over in order to get to the bit that's actually hard and fun. Just as stupid and pointless.

Hell, I'd prefer the cutscene. At least then I can stretch and take a sip of water while I wait, instead of having to mechanically go through the same motions of running for "under a minute" and killing a handful of junk enemies every fucking time.

Touche.

How often are you dying to these guys, for it to get that bad for you anyway? Reading it out how I wrote it does seem like a chore, but that's under the assumption you'll be fighting them no more than 2-3 times at most ( a little more for the mechanically difficult ones like O&S, 4kings, Bed of Chaos)

While writing that out, I was sure I was helping you and others out by showing you that the treks to bosses weren't difficult or overtly time consuming. I failed to consider how little patience you or others might have and your threshold for monotony. I'll concede that some games aren't for everybody then and I've learned something in writing out a books' template worth and your 4 paragraphs.

Still you'd rather sit through long unskippable cut scenes before a boss? Really? I doubt you mean that. Especially if you're dying as often as I take it you've died in Dark Souls. That would get old incredibly fast and you can not possibly be that thirsty. :D

What kind of games don't fall under this category to you?

I'd genuinely like to know.
How often was I dying? Depends on which playthrough.

On my first try at the game I died many, many times on most bosses.

Sometimes it was just due to me being thick. For instance, taking a long time to figure out that you need to plunge attack the Taurus Demon.

Other times it was due to the game not bothering to explain key mechanics. I died many times (15-20) to the Bell Gargoyles because the game never tells you that you have to be de-hollowed to summon help. So I never even knew you could summon Solaire to help you there since the summon sign doesn't even show up if you're hollow, and I was always hollow because the only use I could see for humanity was boosting bonfires. Running around human was just asking to get invaded.

I died many times (15-20) to the Capra Demon because the game does a terrible job of explaining stability and poise. I thought his attacks were unblockable.

On that playthrough I ended up fighting Sif, then struggling through the catacombs and killing Pinwheel before finally finding the door to The Depths then suddenly losing interest.

On my second playthrough I read up about various mechanics on a wiki and I had my previous experience to go on.

I killed some of the bosses on the first try. Died to others once or twice. Still didn't appreciate the benefits of a having to go for a jog between attempts. Got both bells, cleared out Ash Lake, killed Sif, killed Pinwheel, got through Sen's Fortress, got through The Painted World (didn't kill Little Miss Tail), then lost interest before meeting any bosses in Anor Londo.

Third playthrough was much the same as the second, but got bored before entering Sen's Fortress.

My disdain toward the placement of checkpoints in Dark Souls has nothing to do with the duration time spent returning to each boss. Rather, it's the fact that that time serves no purpose. It's just wasted for the sake of wasting my time.

Imagine if there were bonfires right in front of each boss's fog door. But upon entering the fog door, there was a 50 second unskippable cutscene that plays each time you fight the boss.
You might say, "This is bullshit, why do I have to keep watching the same fucking cutscene? I just want to fight the boss!"
I might reply, "Dude, what are you complaining about? The cutscene is under a minute long. Are you really that impatient that you can't wait 50 seconds?"
To which you might reply, "But it's pointless. It's 50 seconds that need not exist at all. Why not make the cutscene skippable and let me get on with it?"
I point I would have to concede, unless I was intent on zealously defending my favouritest ever game from nasty, nasty haters.

That is my position on having to spend a minute running down corridors and cutting through junk after each death. It's just like an unskippable cutscene except I have to press buttons instead of taking the opportunity to have a scratch and get comfy.

Wow a great post full of content! Thank you for taking the time to elaborate on your feelings and experiences a bit more with me. It was a great read.

Now, to start so you've gone through the game three times now. Picking it up getting to a point and dropping it. That's cool, shows you had fun with the game and perhaps on your next play through (granted there aren't better things to do) you might even finish it just for fucks. So it seems there's interest there, if a little. Definitely more than you gave the Witcher 2 (another game I had a blast playing through multiple times)

Rather, it's the fact that that time serves no purpose. It's just wasted for the sake of wasting my time.
Now clearly as some one who enjoys playing games and has done so for a good many years; why would you say something like that? This isn't the first game to do this nor will it be the last. It absolutely has a purpose. The reason you don't start immediately within reach or within the fog of war is clear. So you don't brick wall yourself against a boss you're just not ready for yet. The reason you spawn at a bonfire a "minute away [sup]TM[/sup]" is so you can choose to strategically retreat if you will. This gap in distance allows you to either forgo this area altogether or to farm up the souls of the mooks littered around the route to the boss, that extra point in endurance could be that little help you need to block/dodge an extra hit after all! So there's absolutely purpose to it. The run to the boss also helps keep you fresh at the game. By improving your dodging(fuck them I want the boss) and/or your skill (they will die like their master!) As well as letting you know when you should take a break from the game (you die on the way to the boss or something unfortunate along those lines so your rage just raises ad nauseam)


This next bit of yours is a bit aggressive and I can see the scathing satire. It's all in good fun though and an apt representation of my original argument. Well done.
It's difficult to argue this point because we all want it easy, myself included. Though that's the opposite intent of the developers of this game. They wanted to punish you for failure and increase the stakes, while in your example they're merely wasting your time. The two aren't nearly as interchangeable as you think and if you stop to consider your example it already exists. Worse, in fact. There are games that have you load at a checkpoint at a distance either within "a minute[sup]TM[/sup]" or over and still have you trudge through the cut scenes. Those suck ass. Which brings me back to "Timmy" the forsaken question. What kind of games don't fall under this category to you?

Also in my defense if you're painting me as a person who falls under this description
zealously defending my favouritest ever game from nasty, nasty haters.
let's not please. I'm not anywhere near as close to the devout following this game has spurred. I've never bothered with Demon Souls haven't even rushed out to buy Dark Souls II even though it's been widely available for some time now. Only reason I'm so well versed at this moment is due to an Achievement whore binge I did of the game a mere week ago.

To conclude I'd like to thank you again for the discussion, it's been a learning experience for me and I've greatly enjoyed "clashing" with you so to speak about games. As my first discussion on the Escapist it will be remembered fondly. It's been a pleasure Zhukov.

This time if you do respond, don't ignore Timmy. He'd make a far more interesting topic :D
 

mightycasey

New member
Nov 23, 2008
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>>Issue 3. Extreme sexualization

This was one of the reasons I gave up on Saints Row 3. It was pretty fun in a ridiculous sort of way, but the relentlessly juvenile sense of humor and nonstop making women the punchline of bad jokes didn't sit well with me. I know it's supposed to be parody, but, well, it offended my delicate liberal sensibilities. PC ragequit!


Also, whoever mentioned long intro sequences: both Dragon Age: Origins and especially Metal Gear Solid 3 nearly had me turning off the system after the first fifteen minutes of exposition dumping tediousness. First give me a reason to care about playing your game, then start feeding me story!

Also, regarding bad stories, which a few people have mentioned: Maybe I'm a movie snob but I just don't find that many AAA games have compelling stories, especially the ones that try hardest to be cinematic, so games that lean heavily on plot tend to fall flat to me. My favorite video game stories in recent years have been Bastion and Thomas Was Alone. Both simple, straightforward, and occasionally poignant without ever interrupting the flow of the game. Bad story won't always make me quit a game, but I will gladly skip bad cinematics (which are most of them).
 

Darth Rosenberg

New member
Oct 25, 2011
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Zhukov said:
My disdain toward the placement of checkpoints in Dark Souls has nothing to do with the duration time spent returning to each boss. Rather, it's the fact that that time serves no purpose. It's just wasted for the sake of wasting my time.
I don't think I was ever bothered by placement of bonfires (and weirdly I never once thought of them, and still don't, as 'checkpoints'. they were refuges within the big bad world, places to heal/upgrade/level). DS generally has a natural flow to it, if you're not a terrible player, especially on a first run: first an area is a challenge, sometimes an attritional one. Then you learn how to deal with your foes - perhaps you die repeatedly but learn from your mistakes, and you improve as a player. And lastly, you've mastered your foes, killed the non-respawning sub-bosses and/or NPC's and opened up shortcuts; you can deal with - or evade - almost any foe, and you likely have a few effective means of healing, just in case you get sloppy (although by that point you should be able to deal with almost all minions without getting a scratch).

If you've farmed souls and items, all the minions between bosses are manageable, or easy, depending on your skill level. And even then, most enemies stick to their zones if you just want to run past them.

I really don't get the comparison with a cutscene, either. A cutscene doesn't give you choice - there's no agency (beyond watch or skip). I've not played it for a few months, so I can't be 100% certain, but I don't think DS ever forces you to engage with any area enemy before a boss.

Something else could be colouring your view, though - well, both our perspectives. It sounds like you've tried to play through DS a few times, and given up. Whereas I only ever started one main character, and kept playing, putting over a hundred hours onto it (I have two bosses, then the final boss to clear the game). I've never dealt with knowing exactly what's around the corner with a low level character, and how far or close various bosses are.

...then again, even on the characters I started just to test stuff (like having the Master Key, or starting out with heavy armour or a different weapon), none of that ever bothered me - the more I knew about Lordran, the more experience and knowledge I had in creating a more successfully honed build (getting to certain areas early, knowing where soul/item farming spots are, etc).

So it seems you just don't click with DS.

Completely agree with Raku-Gosha, though - I never felt I was wasting my time once, and saw the area before a boss as--- well, part of the boss fight. DS punishes the lazy and the impatient, and whilst the game has its key bosses, I never felt like they were the focus of the flow of gameplay. DS isn't you against certain bosses - it's you against the world/environment, and so the hordes of minions, sub-bosses, and bosses are all one challenge.

Make the bosses easier to get to from a bonfire, and I think you diminish that quality.
 

duwenbasden

King of the Celery people
Jan 18, 2012
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Any game that suffers from player taxi syndrome -- your actions have no bearing on the plot; you are just driving the protagonist from one plot point to another. I got the feeling I am not part of the story and thus "not required". eg. Tomb Raider 2013, Uncharted.

Any game with squeakily voiced characters -- it grinds my gears to listen to them all day.

Press X to not die in cutscenes -- a scientific method to measure the amount of rage one will emit.