What does the Confederate flag represent to you?
- Thread starter Baron Von Evil Satan
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Well put..maddawg IAJI said:
HOWEVER, just like the Union Jack and St George cross (england's flag) the confederate flag has been hijacked by bigots and racists who have tarnished its original purpose.
Yes, the flag means independence and all that good stuff; but sadly (maybe not to you) but to a lot of people it is a symbol of race hate and white supremacy.
Sad but true.
to me it's just a flag, just like any other. as far as flags go it's pertty i suppose. but i wouldn't automatically assume someone was a racist if they had one. in fact, that's actually kinda racist of the NAACP.
...here come hateful quotes, that's what i get for being honest i guess... :/
...here come hateful quotes, that's what i get for being honest i guess... :/
Slavery wasn't used as an excuse, it was used as a rallying cry. Yes, Lincon's primary reason for going to war was to preserve the union. However he knew that he needed an issue more tangible and more relevant to the to the people in order to convince them to fight. You can still call him manipulative if you want, but he believed that staying united was in the best interests of the entire nation, and in any case he did follow through and end up being very important in freeing the slaves.this isnt my name said:
Unfortunately though I don't know (or remember) much more about why the civil war was fought, like i can't remember the issue that got the south riled up enough to try to succeed.
/facepalm, i'm not even going to touch this...this isnt my name said:
*edit* i just did some research to ease the shame of being an american who doesn't know american history.
this quote from http://www.civil-war.net/pages/timeline.asp might help
February 1861
February 1st - The Texas Legislature votes to secede from the Union. In a general election, held on February 23, 1861, voters ratified secession by a better than three to one margin. In the Texas Declaration of Secession it states, "In all the non-slaveholding States, in violation of that good faith and comity which should exist between entirely distinct nations, the people have formed themselves into a great sectional party, now strong enough in numbers to control the affairs of each of those States, based upon an unnatural feeling of hostility to these Southern States and their beneficent and patriarchal system of African slavery, proclaiming the debasing doctrine of equality of all men, irrespective of race or color - a doctrine at war with nature, in opposition to the experience of mankind, and in violation of the plainest revelations of Divine Law. They demand the abolition of negro slavery throughout the confederacy, the recognition of political equality between the white and negro races, and avow their determination to press on their crusade against us, so long as a negro slave remains in these States."
February 1st - The Texas Legislature votes to secede from the Union. In a general election, held on February 23, 1861, voters ratified secession by a better than three to one margin. In the Texas Declaration of Secession it states, "In all the non-slaveholding States, in violation of that good faith and comity which should exist between entirely distinct nations, the people have formed themselves into a great sectional party, now strong enough in numbers to control the affairs of each of those States, based upon an unnatural feeling of hostility to these Southern States and their beneficent and patriarchal system of African slavery, proclaiming the debasing doctrine of equality of all men, irrespective of race or color - a doctrine at war with nature, in opposition to the experience of mankind, and in violation of the plainest revelations of Divine Law. They demand the abolition of negro slavery throughout the confederacy, the recognition of political equality between the white and negro races, and avow their determination to press on their crusade against us, so long as a negro slave remains in these States."
Also here's another site that's a bit more direct, however it's a .com so it's not necessarily accurate. But i read it and it seemed to line up with what i already know, so take that how you will. http://americanhistory.about.com/od/civilwarmenu/a/cause_civil_war.htm
Basically there were a lot of factors at play that require an understanding in the creation of the constitution, the basics of how our government works, and recent politics. In other words, it's not the easiest subject to understand. However there WAS tension between the north and the south on the issue of slavery, and it was a major factor that pushed the south to succession, and no, the north was NOT ok with slavery before the war.
racism, really. rednecks where i live like to wave the confederate flag, and wear it on their shirts, and they do it simply because they dont like black people and they like to stir up trouble. thats the whole point. otherwise, theyd be wearing camouflage like the rednecks that arent complete assholes
I think the refusal of the identification of British is the fear of the loss of the further identification as English, Scottish, Welsh, etc.Verlander said:
EDIT: Also I find it funny that it's considered a country made up of countries. Mad stuff
I think people who are comparing it to a swastika are going a little too far. Or, more accurately perhaps, are looking at the issue too simply. The issue of slavery in the South was far more complex than simple hatred or racism. Remember, the South's economy was agrarian. They relied hugely on their agriculture. Having slaves did help this - so Confederates could rationalise the slavery issue to a certain extent. "If you take our slaves away, we won't have money". I think it is too easy to look back to the past and call them racists and bigots. When the North was primarily agrarian they used slaves too. As did the United Kingdom. Both had since progress to a far more industrial society and weren't dependent on slavery to feed their economy.rockyoumonkeys said:
Another reason why I have a problem with calling the Confederation racist is because it suggests that the North wasn't. African Americans were still being trampled on as late as the 1960s. Around 100 years later. I've also heard people suggest that the North were the "good guys". They committed their fair share of war crimes. Very rarely are things so black and white as that.
I don't see the American Civil War to be a battle of "good vs evil", "right vs wrong" or "bigotry vs acceptance". I see it simply to be a struggle of power - both in the literal sense, and in the political arena. An old fashioned society was forced to be incorporated within a new one. I understand and can empathise with both sides.
Having said that, I do tremendously respect the position Lincoln took against slavery.
P.S: I am not an American so take that with a grain of salt!
That is completely untrue.Vykrel said:
As an outsider looking in, you Americans tend to be incredibly polarised about everything. For good or bad.traukanshaku said:
The Union freed the slaves to destroy the economy of the Confederacy, nothing more, nothing less. There was no moral high ground to be taken by either side. Abraham Lincoln himself believed that the races should be separate and was a supporter of the idea going around at the time that all the non-whites should move to the central Americas. The economy of the southern states was, and still is, based largely on agriculture, and at the time, it wasn't automated like it is today. It was easy for the northern states to sit back and say that slavery was wrong, because they didn't have the need for large amounts of agriculture workers while also having a low population density (NOTE: I'm NOT saying slavery was a-okay, just playing devil's advocate a bit here).
I've found it interesting to read the opinions in this thread from people who don't live in the USA. We Americans tend to be incredibly (and understandably) polarized about the Civil War. No one can say that it was about this, or that, because it meant different things to everyone who fought in it. Some may have been fighting for or against slavery. Some may have been fighting for state's rights, or for sovereignty of central government, or just because they felt like the other side was going to waltz through and kill them anyway (ahem, General Sherman...). Like any other action, the intentions behind it are what need to be evaluated. Kid Rock says he doesn't believe the Confederate flag is racist, so to him, it's not. Some other people disagree and are throwing a pointless temper tantrum.
I've found it interesting to read the opinions in this thread from people who don't live in the USA. We Americans tend to be incredibly (and understandably) polarized about the Civil War. No one can say that it was about this, or that, because it meant different things to everyone who fought in it. Some may have been fighting for or against slavery. Some may have been fighting for state's rights, or for sovereignty of central government, or just because they felt like the other side was going to waltz through and kill them anyway (ahem, General Sherman...). Like any other action, the intentions behind it are what need to be evaluated. Kid Rock says he doesn't believe the Confederate flag is racist, so to him, it's not. Some other people disagree and are throwing a pointless temper tantrum.
To me it represents one of the worst times in American history. People fighting for the right to keep other people enslaved.
But that is just my understanding of things. When I see the "Heritage, Not Hate" signs I just think yeah, The Swastika is just a Tibetan good luck charm too.
But that is just my understanding of things. When I see the "Heritage, Not Hate" signs I just think yeah, The Swastika is just a Tibetan good luck charm too.
Lol. Yeah, it is a bit over used now days by people who don't really understand it all that well.emeraldrafael said:That flag has become more of a joke and parody of itself then anything else. The second to last time I saw that, a Tea Party Rallyist was carrying it. Then the most recent time I saw it, it was when someone was speaking out against the labor Unions everyone wants to take rights away from.Aur0ra145 said:
Though, this is a fun one from my home state. Us Texans pride our selves on being defiant and weary of federal government. Though the "Come and Take It" flag is from the Battle of Gonzales where we fought our first battle during the war for Texas Independence. Which, a few days ago on March 2, we celebrated Texas Independence Day. I drank a Shiner Bock and listened to Jerry Jeff Walker songs.
I'm a real big Texas history buff, so stuff like that makes me happy. Anyhow, if you ever make it down to these parts I'll buy you a Shiner and tell you how I think the world ought to be.
Take it easy sir.
Because you can't be proud of Southern American heritage by flying the ACTUAL flag of the nation as opposed to the treasonous, secession-based one that represents a breakaway nation built on subjugation of other races, right?
Yes, yes, "states' rights" and all that. But we're in the real world now.
The Nazi flag analogy is apt, all you Godwin wolf-criers. "But we're just showing our pride in our Germanity!" Then fly the German flag.
EDIT: Actually, here's a quote I remember hearing from SportsNight that this reminded me of. "In the history of the South, there's much to celebrate. And that flag is a desecration of all of it. It's a banner of hatred and seperatism. It's a banner of ignorance and violence and a war that pitted brother against brother, and to ask young black men and women, young Jewish men and women, Asians, Native Americans, to ask Americans to walk beneath its shadow is a humiliation of irreducible proportions. And we all know it."
Yes, yes, "states' rights" and all that. But we're in the real world now.
The Nazi flag analogy is apt, all you Godwin wolf-criers. "But we're just showing our pride in our Germanity!" Then fly the German flag.
EDIT: Actually, here's a quote I remember hearing from SportsNight that this reminded me of. "In the history of the South, there's much to celebrate. And that flag is a desecration of all of it. It's a banner of hatred and seperatism. It's a banner of ignorance and violence and a war that pitted brother against brother, and to ask young black men and women, young Jewish men and women, Asians, Native Americans, to ask Americans to walk beneath its shadow is a humiliation of irreducible proportions. And we all know it."
I agree.
To me, that flag does represent the southern states of the U.S.A. I recognize as the Confederate Flag, yes, but that flag represented the South, not slavery.
To me, that flag does represent the southern states of the U.S.A. I recognize as the Confederate Flag, yes, but that flag represented the South, not slavery.
The only that is so though is because of of the people portrayed in the spoiler picture.Droppa Deuce said:
There is nothing wrong with being proud of your heritage, but people like that aren't doing themselves any favors by using it in their rallies.
As a non-American, to me it represents the Dukes of Hazzard.
I don't think that show was even broadcast in here, but that's what it reminds me of.
I don't think that show was even broadcast in here, but that's what it reminds me of.
