What evidence is there that Osama is dead?

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retterkl

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Shirokurou said:
A smart and crafty terrorist could just go and have an Osama double appear on TV and say "F you, I'm alive."

Seriously, i guess we can only take their word for it. It's not like they'll put his head on a pike and show it off at public squares a-la dark ages.
... There is video footage of Saddam Hussein being hanged. It wouldn't really be that surprising to have a picture or two of Osama.


I'm sure that the military would have taken video footage of the raid anyway. They could show some of that.
 

Shirokurou

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retterkl said:
Shirokurou said:
A smart and crafty terrorist could just go and have an Osama double appear on TV and say "F you, I'm alive."

Seriously, i guess we can only take their word for it. It's not like they'll put his head on a pike and show it off at public squares a-la dark ages.
... There is video footage of Saddam Hussein being hanged. It wouldn't really be that surprising to have a picture or two of Osama.


I'm sure that the military would have taken video footage of the raid anyway. They could show some of that.
I'm saying is that latest video footage of Osama probably dates far back, and he did have body-doubles.
i sure there will be more than one "Osama is still alive theory".

But wait. With Osama dead, isn't the War on Terror won?
 

rokkolpo

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Denariax said:
DNA Test.
That only works if the already have DNA of him.
So they can compare it.

No?

OT: I don't think it matters much, someone will just plump his feet in his footsteps.
 

retterkl

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Shirokurou said:
But wait. With Osama dead, isn't the War on Terror won?
Osama =/= terror. War on terror is not won until no one is scared. Of anything. At all.

At least until they're not terrified of stuff at least. US army should really be invading cinemas showing Insideous soon.


But can I just say there hasn't been a DNA test yet for those thinking there has. There's been some facial recognition hardware used, but that's it. DNA test takes a few days to clear.
 

Superior Mind

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That circulated picture is fake and a pretty terrible fake at that. I'm pretty sure a picture will be released though and when it is it'll be released through official channels, not posted on some random corner of the Internet.

There will be conspiracies. Oh yes there will be conspiracies. I've already seen a couple of people suggesting that it is a complete fabrication and a desperate attempt by Obama to improve his polling numbers. Trump is probably getting ready to go on camera to demand to see the death certificate.

I'm sure before they buried bin Laden at sea they were pretty thorough to ensure it was him. Likewise Obama would have made damn sure before he announced anything. I mean imagine having to go back on that - "Whoops, our bad, it was Osama Ben Ladin we killed. Yeah oops. Always mix those guys up."

Which is the thing I guess, if he isn't dead and he comes out with another one of his webisodes then holy crap is the Obama administration screwed. There's no way they would risk this is they thought there was any doubt that he'd been killed.
 

Ixnay1111

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I think it strange that they dumped his body. You dont kill a stag and then leave the horns.
 

retterkl

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Ixnay1111 said:
I think it strange that they dumped his body. You dont kill a stag and then leave the horns.
Well this does make sense from what they've given the reason. They don't want to make his place of resting a pigrimage site.

I think that would be quite clever to do really.... terrorist bait is few and far between really.
 

Shirokurou

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retterkl said:
Shirokurou said:
But wait. With Osama dead, isn't the War on Terror won?
Osama =/= terror. War on terror is not won until no one is scared. Of anything. At all.

At least until they're not terrified of stuff at least. US army should really be invading cinemas showing Insideous soon.


But can I just say there hasn't been a DNA test yet for those thinking there has. There's been some facial recognition hardware used, but that's it. DNA test takes a few days to clear.
I can see the sarcasm.
Just saying that the big scapegoat/excuse to invade is now out of the book. So, who's the new "Enemy no.1"?
 

Vaccine

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If they did fake it, and it went public, it'd be a massive scandal on the US government.

Honestly I don't think the favor they'd gain in politics is worth the risk of such a scandal, I'm willing to bet he really is dead.
 

Ixnay1111

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retterkl said:
Ixnay1111 said:
I think it strange that they dumped his body. You dont kill a stag and then leave the horns.
Well this does make sense from what they've given the reason. They don't want to make his place of resting a pigrimage site.

I think that would be quite clever to do really.... terrorist bait is few and far between really.
They were prepared to dump his body, why not wait a while. Why dump the body of the worlds most wanted man straight after killing him? Its... strange.

Just saying that the big scapegoat/excuse to invade is now out of the book. So, who's the new "Enemy no.1"?[/quote]

Conspiracy theorists have been talking about a new big attack coming up for a while... and now that Osama has been killed, with the way people on the news keep talking about being prepared for retaliation... who knows, something might happen and we'll have a new no.1 soon... though i hope thats not the case
 

Shepard's Shadow

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RT-Medic-with-shotgun said:
Shepard said:
MajorDolphin said:
Shepard said:
What would they have to gain from lying about it?
How about a nice distraction from other events? How about scoring political points? Obama is the guy who "caught" Osama, something I'm sure we'll hear about during the election cycle.
We probably will. But if Osama is still alive and Obama lied about it, it will be a catastrophe.
Check that they may have lied about the chase, may have killed him a good time earlier, any number of things.

As for war on terror isn't it the snore on terror? Amirite??? I mean for the evil terrorist mastermind designated notorious enemy of the country only launched 3 attacks on us that worked i don't call that a war. 10 years 3 attacks on American civilians. His death means nothing because the fight on terror was technically already over.
Lying about how or when they killed him isn't as big a deal as lying about weather he is alive or dead. I don't recall talking about a "war on terror". I always thought saying "war" was a bit much. More like clean up.

Blue Musician said:
Shepard said:
What would they have to gain from lying about it?
Have you noticed that the economy status of the USA suddenly got up when the news where given?
No I haven't. I only heard he was dead from someone I was playing Halo Reach with. I haven't really heard a lot about the situation. I only know that he is dead and that we (The USA) are in possession of his body.
 

Knusper

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SinisterSpadeV2 said:
Knusper said:
The fact that the US didn't tell anyone else about it is a bit fishy, though.
Not really. Good PR and all that, y'know?

They waited to announce it until the anni of that hilarious Mission Accomplished stunt Bush did back in the day. A shrewd and well done political move.
I'm genuinely sorry to say I have absolutely no idea what you are referring to.
 

Tim Varkalis

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"Long story short: if the president went on TV and flatly stated something as important as this in terms as unambiguous as he did, it's because it's true."

This is the principle reason anyone believes Osama is dead. And it is such utter nonsense I find it hard to believe it appears to be a majority opinion!

Here's a few of the main possibilities:

1. Obama did send troops to kill Osama, they did so, the story is all true. That would be great if and only if they could produce incontrovertible evidence that the guy they shot was Osama. If for any reason they cannot produce the evidence, they are in massive international trouble (unless they can brainwash patriots and fools into believing they just wouldn't lie about something like that).

2. Osama was killed years ago, appearances since have been by doubles and they just killed one of them. It was politicially convenient to have the 'hunting Osama' excuse to do otherwise inexcusable things in other countries (like mounting unannounced military operations in civilian areas of foreign countries and generally exerting massive political force, gaining power over critical arab regions).

3. Osama got away, his followers remained loyal, the military operation was fake (say, they conveniently killed a rogue double agent or whatever and pretended it was Osama) because Obama wanted the popularity for the elections and wanted to change political stance (sacrificing the 'Osama hunt' excuse).

Obviously the truth is likely some variation of the above, somewhere between 1 and 2 or 2 and 3 perhaps. For all those spanners who said "but then Osama could just release an 'Im alive' video so Obama wouldn't risk it", any intelligent terrorist will do this with some reasonable look-alike over a poor quality satellite video if Osama really was dead. So if one pops up, and the government still doesn't want the hunt to be on, they will claim its a fake and everyone will believe him because its the US government. They (US) may even release an obvious fake themselves if they want to incite unrest.

DNA evidence is a minimum, much evidence needs to be provided. This could be linked to family members, remember the US has a long history of working with Osama and his family and hosting them as diplomats. If they cannot produce enough evidence to prove it to the public, then they have no right or reason to claim or believe themselves that Osama is indeed dead.

My gut feeling is that he has been dead for a while, no-one's quite sure when or how he was killed and the US seized on this to create the great 'Osama hunt excuse' which has been an extraordinarily powerful tool for the US to leverage massive extra control and freedom in the international stage.

The terrorist threat will never be over until the countries principally benefiting from its existence decide they are going to stop it. If the US feels it is perfectly safe and happy, it will only ever be when it has near-total control over every other country and the lion's share of every resource on the planet. Who wants to take bets that in our life times China becomes the new Cold-War USSR, possibly linking triad organised crime as a form of terrorism and linking them to government? Whatever is expedient at the time they want an excuse I guess. This is not mindless conspiracy, just expecting the pattern of behaviour shown by US government and war cabinet since (pre/post?) WW1, which has not yet been broken, to continue as usual.