What exactly is the difference between American, Japanese, and European mechs?

[Arina Love]

I had no idea European animation even had mechs, or at least mechs of a distinguishable type separate from the others :-\

Well, Danger Mouse had a robotic Loch Ness monster, and a huge robot dog, as well as several normal-sized robot animals.
Daleks might count, too, they are piloted, vaguely humanoid machines, after all.
And, of course, Marvin, at least before he got that Apple redesign.

western mechs are clumsy heavy things like tanks but with legs, Japanese are more human like agile fast usually have hands and fingers to hold weapon. Fast example watch gameplay videos of MechWarrior and Armored Core differences are seen with naked eye.

Indeed, Western Mecha are totally clumsy, heavy, stiff and absolutely unelegant things ;-)

Actually transformers are tied to Japan closer than you think. In 80s there were cartoon fad for mechas started by Japanese with Mazinger Z in 70s, it's said that transformers original line of toys probably were heavy influenced buy that and anime, 82' The Super Dimension Fortress Macross be one of the possible culprits where planes transformed in to humanoid mechas and even had word "transformation" heavily and dramatically used it's still a guess though but i find it a compelling one.

 

[M-E-D The Poet]

American mechas and european mechas are like tanks
Japanese mechas are suits of armor the movement of a gundam are blatantly those of the pilot

American mechas vs european mechas : America is big on weaponry,europe is artsy

 

[SnakeoilSage]

The clearest explination I can give is that American Mecha (see BattleTech and MechWarrior) tend to favor hard science fiction, so their mechs are literally walking tanks, their strategic value based around the fact that they can carry a large assortment of heavy weapons and have the manuverability to fire them in ways that tanks can't.

Except that mecha wouldn't actually have superior manoeuverability to tanks, and in fact would be substantially held back by their design features [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.195936-Probing-The-Inaccuracies-Mecha]. I prefer BattleTech and the like to the Japanese Super Robot designs, but mecha are absolutely not a viable weapons system.

It's true, but that was the concept behind them. And there's a bit of "hard science fiction" about ferro-fibrus mechanical muscle bundles that are supposed to make battlemechs able to move the way they do without the kind of wear and tear a machine would suffer at that size.

 

[Thaliur]

Actually transformers are tied to Japan closer than you think. In 80s there were cartoon fad for mechas started by Japanese with Mazinger Z in 70s, it's said that transformers original line of toys probably were heavy influenced buy that and anime, 82' The Super Dimension Fortress Macross be one of the possible culprits where planes transformed in to humanoid mechas and even had word "transformation" heavily and dramatically used it's still a guess though but i find it a compelling one.

Yes, Transformers were originally Japanese toys. They had no actual backstory, though, except that they were supposed to be piloted. The stories, names and animation were done in America, originally as a feature-length toy commercial which turned out to be surprisingly popular.

The clearest explination I can give is that American Mecha (see BattleTech and MechWarrior) tend to favor hard science fiction, so their mechs are literally walking tanks, their strategic value based around the fact that they can carry a large assortment of heavy weapons and have the manuverability to fire them in ways that tanks can't.

Except that mecha wouldn't actually have superior manoeuverability to tanks, and in fact would be substantially held back by their design features [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.195936-Probing-The-Inaccuracies-Mecha]. I prefer BattleTech and the like to the Japanese Super Robot designs, but mecha are absolutely not a viable weapons system.

Well, in some cases, walking machines can be quite superior to wheeled vehicles. The John Deere Walking Tractor, for example:

And BigDog, of course:

 

[Thaliur]

[Sorry, doublepost]

 

[NickCaligo42]

[img src="http://www.highdefdigest.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/Mech.jpg" /]

That is a western mecha, from Mechwarrior. More like a tank with legs than anything else. Practicality rules out, with the argument in their favor being that they can negotiate more difficult or uneven terrain than a tank, and do it faster. Homage is being paid to clear modern military tradition and another step of progress.

[img src="http://www.shopncsx.com/images1/products/detail/armored_core_white_glint.jpg" /]

That is a Japanese mecha, from Armored Core. Humanoid, agile, highly articulable, makes for a good action figure. Meant as a metaphor for Samurai armor and, to some degree, a means of exploring the relevance of medieval Japanese tradition in the context of a modern arms race.

[img src="http://images.wikia.com/warhammer40k/images/2/2b/Imperial_Imperator_Titan.jpg" /]

A Titan from Warhammer 40k, representing the European camp because I can't really think of anything else. Homage is paid to medieval warfare tradition in this case, because that's what mainly inspires Warhammer 40k. Thus, mecha of this variety are styled after siege engines, knights in armor, battlements, and in some cases, tombs and caskets. It's notable that more modern stuff, styled after things like World War I tanks, tend to be inferior to the mecha that take from medieval tradition like the above. This is a very, very specific example, however, and I won't pretend to be an expert on European mech designs. If anybody's got other examples, I'd like to hear them.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Hmmm...in regards to 40k as European mechs, there's more than just Imperial stuff around. The Ork and Eldar stuff are both very different from each other, and from the Imperial Titans and Dreads.

Personally, I'd say that Ork Gargants are the most feasible...swap legs for tracks and that thing might work, to an extent. The humanoid shape is good for humans, not so good for MBTs.

 

[TheRightToArmBears]

I'm a bit confused by all the people citing Warhammer. Whilst Imperial/Chaos and Ork titans aren't anything like Japanese ones, Eldar Revenants [http://media.photobucket.com/image/eldar%20revenant%20titan/Sinsinatus/Painted%20Miniatures/Golden%20Demon%20Winners/Eldar%20Revenant%20Titan/firewalker.jpg]and my Eldar Phantom are actually much more like the Japanese style. It's a case of what GW were after when they designed the different factions, not about the real-life culture of where they designed.

 

[funguy2121]

I'm asking this question seriously right now. In regards to yesterdays post on mechs I realized that I know nothing on the,"regional distinction" on mechs or mythical concepts. I'm not trying to piss anyone off, I just don't really see a difference. To me, it's just an excuse for causing millions in property damage for the sake of a good cause. (hehehehe) Anyway I was wonderring if anyone here could enlighten me on the differences between these metal titans? Please help me

What American and European mechs are out there? 90's Microsoft games and mind-atrophyingly stupid 80's movies?

No, Eldar Revenants, Space Marine Dreadnoughts and BattleTech Atlases.

BattleTech? Aren't the BattleTech people the same people who did the art design and story for Mech Warrior (of 90's Microsoft fame)?

Also: 3 video games. That's it. I wouldn't say there's an American, or European, or AmeriEan or Euroican style of mech just yet.

Nope. Long running tabletop franchises stemming from the 1980s. Warhammer 40000 has a metric ton of different mech designs ranging from short little Sentinel weapons platforms to gigantic war titans.

BattleTech has also been around for a long time. Mechwarrior is a spinoff, but still part of the same franchise.

Need more mechs? District 9's Combat Mech. The Avatar AMP Battlesuits, Heinlein's Mobile Infantry Suits, Megas XLR, the Symbionic Titans, the Xmen Sentinels, Iron Monger, Star Wars' ATAT, ATTE, ATST, and ATRT walkers, Transformers, Supreme Commander units.

Transformers and sentinels are not mechs, they're robots. Transformers are JAPANESE. Geez, why didn't ya throw in Voltron and Evangelion while you're at it, Mr. Condescending?

 

[Nickolai77]

Regarding "European mecha", i think what you see in the Warhammer 40k universe can legitimately be regarded as European because Warhammer 40k was created by Rick Priestly and Andy Chambers in 1987, both of these are British citizens.

But beyond that i can't think of any other examples of European mech. There are probably quite a few elements of European mecha in various European sci-fi novels, but by the large such novels are not well known and how they look is largely left to the readers imagination.

European culture isn't very strong in modern visual media and popular culture: This is because Europe is essentially a continent divided by umteen different languages and national cultures, meaning that most popular culture deriving from Europe arises in a national context rather than a European one, meaning that European popular culture is weak overall-unless perhaps such forms of popular culture are produced in English (Like Warhammer 40K or Dr Who) which helps dissemination worldwide as English is a global language.

Anyway, enough of my ranting: Based purely around Warhammer 40k, European Mech is reminiscent of steam-punk and mediaevalism, combining Gothic aesthetic aspects with practical and brutal firepower.

 

[Hectix777]

[img src="http://www.highdefdigest.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/Mech.jpg" /]

That is a western mecha, from Mechwarrior. More like a tank with legs than anything else. Practicality rules out, with the argument in their favor being that they can negotiate more difficult or uneven terrain than a tank, and do it faster. Homage is being paid to clear modern military tradition and another step of progress.

[img src="http://www.shopncsx.com/images1/products/detail/armored_core_white_glint.jpg" /]

That is a Japanese mecha, from Armored Core. Humanoid, agile, highly articulable, makes for a good action figure. Meant as a metaphor for Samurai armor and, to some degree, a means of exploring the relevance of medieval Japanese tradition in the context of a modern arms race.

[img src="http://images.wikia.com/warhammer40k/images/2/2b/Imperial_Imperator_Titan.jpg" /]

A Titan from Warhammer 40k, representing the European camp because I can't really think of anything else. Homage is paid to medieval warfare tradition in this case, because that's what mainly inspires Warhammer 40k. Thus, mecha of this variety are styled after siege engines, knights in armor, battlements, and in some cases, tombs and caskets. It's notable that more modern stuff, styled after things like World War I tanks, tend to be inferior to the mecha that take from medieval tradition like the above. This is a very, very specific example, however, and I won't pretend to be an expert on European mech designs. If anybody's got other examples, I'd like to hear them.

So the design philosophy of the USA is," Make a walking tank based on technology now or in the next decade or so,"

Japan's is," Make it resemble the armor of samurai," or," make it look like a futuristic samurai,"

And Europe's can be seen as," Let's look at Gothic and Romanticized architecture and put that on the war machines."

Alright, I think I'm getting it. But let me ask you this, I've been looking at mech pics off of DA and I found this one called a Wanzer. It does not look acrobatic at all, this seems more like a platform than anything else. It actually kinda feels like a walking tank. My question is could the mecha from Front Mission be seen as a combination of Western and Eastern design philosophies or should I see it as what someone like Boeing would build if the US asked for a walking mobile platform, capable of exchanging weaponry? I know this sounds weird so feel free to quote me if you want me to clarify it.

The mech was called a Wanzer Baizal I think.

Edit: Besides what I already said, I guess the design philosophy is reminiscent of their picture of their ancient or medieval military, like Europe thinks about knights and Japan thinks about samurai or ninjas. But the reason American ones look so real but not humanoid is because we never had anything like samurai or knights, we had minutemen and militia and they were everyday people. So instead of looking to the past the US uses the example of the modern foot soldier as an example to base their mechs off. Right?

 

[NickCaligo42]

The mech was called a Wanzer Baizal I think.

[img src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_R1LVqSI_Ng4/S0yB-hCz7cI/AAAAAAAAB3w/OHat2Ze2Wdk/s400/Wanzer.jpg" /]

[img src="http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs27/f/2008/183/7/2/7230276ad0a7f92751bcf7cdc8543ab2.jpg" /]

You mean these guys? Front Mission is Japanese all the way. I don't know much about it, myself, but the fact that it's published by Square Enix should say something. My best guess is that for this series they decided to skew towards this...

[img src="http://mahq.net/mecha/gundam/w/oz-06ms.jpg" /]

... over this...

[img src="http://images.wikia.com/gundam/images/4/46/XXXG-01WK.jpg" /]

The former is the Leo, a mass-production Mobile Suit from Gundam Wing, reknowned for being the crappiest, most boring thing mecha has ever produced. The latter: Wing Zero Custom, the main protagonist's ultimate mech. The former is meant to represent the common foot soldier, whereas the latter is more the Samurai, with all its custom equipment and unique visual motifs.

See, Samurai aren't quite the honorable code-abiding warriors the west has romanticized them into. They were more like mercenaries, hired blades. They armed themselves to the teeth and fought just as much for food as they did for reputation. Eventually they got paid in land, and that's how they became nobility. Believe it or not a lot of the historical texts we have on them mostly involve bragging and huge, overblown fight scenes exactly like you might expect to see out of the likes of Bleach, with warriors exchanging mighty kiais, fighting until they'd broken all their weapons and the like. If these kind of romanticizations have any grounds in reality, we can figure Samurai liked to stand out, hence why a lot of Japanese mecha heroes have enormously blinged-up, customized designs with a ton of weapons.

Foot soldiers... bit more plain. At the very, very best you could talk them up as skilled and honored warriors, specialized for certain tasks and loyally at the behest of a great commander. Again, at best. This is very optimistic. Front Mission reflects more that type of thing, I think, as it is a strategy game and the mechs do reflect more utilitarian and specialized designs rather than the versatile and aesthetically-inclined.

One thing to keep in mind is that any work of fiction has its author's own goals in mind. Gundam is most remarkable for trailblazing the "sci-fi samurai" trope, but it also gave us Gundam Sentinel:

[img src="http://gundamgallery.com/data/media/224/GundamGallery%20Sentinel%20Nov09%20143.jpg" /]

The inspiration for this work in particular? They wanted the way the machines were designed to resemble more what actual space equipment might look and handle like. Take the Gundam concept and bring it pure realism.

Edit: Besides what I already said, I guess the design philosophy is reminiscent of their picture of their ancient or medieval military, like Europe thinks about knights and Japan thinks about samurai or ninjas. But the reason American ones look so real but not humanoid is because we never had anything like samurai or knights, we had minutemen and militia and they were everyday people. So instead of looking to the past the US uses the example of the modern foot soldier as an example to base their mechs off. Right?

For the most part, I'd imagine that would be quite correct.

 

[IsraelRocks]

Here's the distinction:

Designers of Western mechs ask themselves: Supposing for a moment that enormous, destructive, mobile war machines actually existed, what might they look like, considering the sort of world that would call for such things to be built?

Designers of Japanese mechs ask themselves: What will look totally batshit crazy and induce a bunch of epileptic fits?

I lol'd ... i lol'd hard

and not only it is funny but probably kinda true.

 

[demoman_chaos]

Eastern mechs are generally giant metal humans which fly around with great agility, western mechs are lumbering warmachines which are function over form.

Metal Gear Rex is a western style mech, while those Gecko things are more eastern style (and whoever has played MGS4 knows which is superior).

I prefer western style myself. Mechwarrior mechs are just beasty.

 

[hazabaza1]

Japan is more humanoid and get in some really good fistfights. America and Europe are more... I dunno, "real", I guess. Less silly.
[sub][sub][sub]Also less awesome.[/sub][/sub][/sub]

 

[Hectix777]

Japaneses mecha tend to be more 'human' in shape, and move far more fluidly, even the 'real ones' and also tend to be elaborately designed (not always though)

western mecha tend to be, well, be big metal behemoths that generally lack the 'fluid and graceful' movements, in favor of brute force and functionality, with more simplified designs (not always though)

that's a rough lay out anyway, hopefully some one will provide a deeper answer

Japanese ones aren't really elaborately designed, just over designed with unnecessary crap and pieces. And they tend to defy physics and reality more than the western ones.

Western ones tend to be less colourful and alot more practical as well as "realistic" as you can get with mechs.

I'm detecting a trend of overcompensation in just about anything Japan does.

 

[Hectix777]

The mech was called a Wanzer Baizal I think.

[img src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_R1LVqSI_Ng4/S0yB-hCz7cI/AAAAAAAAB3w/OHat2Ze2Wdk/s400/Wanzer.jpg" /]

[img src="http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs27/f/2008/183/7/2/7230276ad0a7f92751bcf7cdc8543ab2.jpg" /]

You mean these guys? Front Mission is Japanese all the way. I don't know much about it, myself, but the fact that it's published by Square Enix should say something. My best guess is that for this series they decided to skew towards this...

[img src="http://mahq.net/mecha/gundam/w/oz-06ms.jpg" /]

... over this...

[img src="http://images.wikia.com/gundam/images/4/46/XXXG-01WK.jpg" /]

The former is the Leo, a mass-production Mobile Suit from Gundam Wing, reknowned for being the crappiest, most boring thing mecha has ever produced. The latter: Wing Zero Custom, the main protagonist's ultimate mech. The former is meant to represent the common foot soldier, whereas the latter is more the Samurai, with all its custom equipment and unique visual motifs.

See, Samurai aren't quite the honorable code-abiding warriors the west has romanticized them into. They were more like mercenaries, hired blades. They armed themselves to the teeth and fought just as much for food as they did for reputation. Eventually they got paid in land, and that's how they became nobility. Believe it or not a lot of the historical texts we have on them mostly involve bragging and huge, overblown fight scenes exactly like you might expect to see out of the likes of Bleach, with warriors exchanging mighty kiais, fighting until they'd broken all their weapons and the like. If these kind of romanticizations have any grounds in reality, we can figure Samurai liked to stand out, hence why a lot of Japanese mecha heroes have enormously blinged-up, customized designs with a ton of weapons.

Foot soldiers... bit more plain. At the very, very best you could talk them up as skilled and honored warriors, specialized for certain tasks and loyally at the behest of a great commander. Again, at best. This is very optimistic. Front Mission reflects more that type of thing, I think, as it is a strategy game and the mechs do reflect more utilitarian and specialized designs rather than the versatile and aesthetically-inclined.

One thing to keep in mind is that any work of fiction has its author's own goals in mind. Gundam is most remarkable for trailblazing the "sci-fi samurai" trope, but it also gave us Gundam Sentinel:

[img src="http://gundamgallery.com/data/media/224/GundamGallery%20Sentinel%20Nov09%20143.jpg" /]

The inspiration for this work in particular? They wanted the way the machines were designed to resemble more what actual space equipment might look and handle like. Take the Gundam concept and bring it pure realism.

Edit: Besides what I already said, I guess the design philosophy is reminiscent of their picture of their ancient or medieval military, like Europe thinks about knights and Japan thinks about samurai or ninjas. But the reason American ones look so real but not humanoid is because we never had anything like samurai or knights, we had minutemen and militia and they were everyday people. So instead of looking to the past the US uses the example of the modern foot soldier as an example to base their mechs off. Right?

For the most part, I'd imagine that would be quite correct.

So besides the more obvious bits, the Wanzer could be seen as Western right? Because it bases it's aesthetic off of a footsoldier and not a samurai, or knight, or viking, or centurion etc.

 

[x EvilErmine x]

Japanese Mech : Think 30m tall bad ass Samurai with lasers.

European/American Mech : Think tank that's taken all the 'roids....and with legs.