What game(s) do you consider art?
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This is an extremely hard question, there is no wrong answer.But for myself here are a few;
Braid (Art House + Pure Art)
Bioshock (Pure Art)
Limbo (Alone feeling)
ilomilo (Art House)
Diablo (Original. For Gothic look and feel)
Braid (Art House + Pure Art)
Bioshock (Pure Art)
Limbo (Alone feeling)
ilomilo (Art House)
Diablo (Original. For Gothic look and feel)
Limbo
Silent hill first trilogy
The suffering: prison is hell; on the surface, rather dumb, but it is actually rather clever, with metaphorical monsters, genuinely terrifying ghosts, and horrific visions.
Shadow of the colossus
Mass effect series
Bioshock, both games. One shows a nightmare of ultra capitalism, the other the polar opposite, total communism.
Metro 2033. Bleak, atmospheric, and unique.
Red dead redemption undead nightmare: it's the artistic touches that make the game. The slightly off colours. The signs of destruction. The odd nightmarish encounter with disturbed humans at the side of the road. All of it tells you that something is awfully wrong in new Austin even before you reach the overrun backwater.
Alan wake. Simply thrilling.
Portal 1+2
and finally, timesplitters trilogy. Because it's timesplitters.
Silent hill first trilogy
The suffering: prison is hell; on the surface, rather dumb, but it is actually rather clever, with metaphorical monsters, genuinely terrifying ghosts, and horrific visions.
Shadow of the colossus
Mass effect series
Bioshock, both games. One shows a nightmare of ultra capitalism, the other the polar opposite, total communism.
Metro 2033. Bleak, atmospheric, and unique.
Red dead redemption undead nightmare: it's the artistic touches that make the game. The slightly off colours. The signs of destruction. The odd nightmarish encounter with disturbed humans at the side of the road. All of it tells you that something is awfully wrong in new Austin even before you reach the overrun backwater.
Alan wake. Simply thrilling.
Portal 1+2
and finally, timesplitters trilogy. Because it's timesplitters.
My Top 5 Games as Art (descending)
5. The Prince of Persia trilogy.
4. Max Payne 1&2.
3. Braid.
2. Ico.
1. Shadow of the Colossus.
And the Damien Hirst Prize;
Fahrenheit (aka Indigo Prophecy)
5. The Prince of Persia trilogy.
4. Max Payne 1&2.
3. Braid.
2. Ico.
1. Shadow of the Colossus.
And the Damien Hirst Prize;
Fahrenheit (aka Indigo Prophecy)
Just to clarify, you can't say every game. Yes, I understand that all games technically qualify as art. However I an talking about like what game or games do you consider a Mona Lisa of games, something to convince a video game virgin that the medium is art not simply something to kill a couple of minutes with. Also, loving your guys answers! Keep then coming!
P.S. I forgot about Half-Life 2 and Bioshock. Those are also on my list.
P.S. I forgot about Half-Life 2 and Bioshock. Those are also on my list.
Ico
SocT
Silent Hill (No. All of them.)
Penumbra (Once again: All of them.)
Mother 3
The Path
Heavy Rain
Well, I guess these games are more "artsy" more than they are solid "art". What I get by "art", is that they revolutionise the others in their media. Like how Half-Life revolutionised the entire action/horror genre. Or how Silent Hill 2 messed around with symbolisism, something no-other-game up 'till that point done.
SocT
Silent Hill (No. All of them.)
Penumbra (Once again: All of them.)
Mother 3
The Path
Heavy Rain
Well, I guess these games are more "artsy" more than they are solid "art". What I get by "art", is that they revolutionise the others in their media. Like how Half-Life revolutionised the entire action/horror genre. Or how Silent Hill 2 messed around with symbolisism, something no-other-game up 'till that point done.
All games are art in their own right, but certain one's stick out in my eyes, games like shadow of the colossus, bioshock, okami,and maybe limbo.
Lots of others as well but these 4 are sticking out in my mind at the time.
Lots of others as well but these 4 are sticking out in my mind at the time.
I've read of an (IMO) pretty convincing argument against that, using an example of some war game (Call of Duty something?) in which the main badass, invincible protagonist up and died in a cutscene, just like that. Like any soldier on the warlines can die, no matter how "important" they are. It was, in fact, more of a gut punch to the player because dammit, this is the person you've spent god knows how many hours controlling and keeping alive, you should be able to prevent this. The gameplay elements - namely the implicit interactivity - actually *augmented* the impact of the protagonist's death.JMeganSnow said:
The argument that gameplay or such does not belong in art or is not artsy is sounds completely arbitrary to me. Why should "artness" and interactivity be at odds?
Seconded like hell.trooper6 said:
I had the weirdest "discussion" once (that started by the other person flat out saying that I've never been to an art gallery if I consider games art) with someone who kept demanding that I provide a game that can be compared to the work of Mozart or Leonardo da Vinci. In short, for her art was Art, no less than a complete masterpiece that would be remembered forever.
Either art is a matter of medium, or it isn't. If it's a matter of medium, then I've heard no convincing argument that the entire medium of videogames is disqualified. Bad videogames are still art, just like the unskilled but soulful stick figure drawing of a kid is art, just like Twilight is art, and may the gods of literature forgive me for saying this.
Or art ISN'T a matter of medium and whether something is art must be determined on a case-by-case basis. There are different criteria one can adopt here, such as measuring the impact or memorability or the meaning and message of a work. Obviously, there are videogames that can and do fulfill such criteria, but agreeing on which of them do (as well as the criteria themselves) can be a matter of opinion. So it's simpler to just go with "all video games are art", in my opinion.
I think the big problem with most of these discussions is that people confuse "artsy" (which is basically a genre) with "art."Hekateras said:Seconded like hell.
I had the weirdest "discussion" once (that started by the other person flat out saying that I've never been to an art gallery if I consider games art) with someone who kept demanding that I provide a game that can be compared to the work of Mozart or Leonardo da Vinci. In short, for her art was Art, no less than a complete masterpiece that would be remembered forever.
Either art is a matter of medium, or it isn't. If it's a matter of medium, then I've heard no convincing argument that the entire medium of videogames is disqualified. Bad videogames are still art, just like the unskilled but soulful stick figure drawing of a kid is art, just like Twilight is art, and may the gods of literature forgive me for saying this.
Or art ISN'T a matter of medium and whether something is art must be determined on a case-by-case basis. There are different criteria one can adopt here, such as measuring the impact or memorability or the meaning and message of a work. Obviously, there are videogames that can and do fulfill such criteria, but agreeing on which of them do (as well as the criteria themselves) can be a matter of opinion. So it's simpler to just go with "all video games are art", in my opinion.
There is a genre called an "art film." I like to call them "Oscar bait films." And I actually quite like many of them. But a film doesn't have to be a British costume drama to be art. Terminator is also art. And yeah, we have "artsy" video games...like Silent Hill 2 or Bioshock...but high art or low art...it is still art.
Ballet is dance...but so it The Twist or Krunking.
I said Majora's Mask in an old thread of the same nature, but I'll change my tune for this one.
The Metal Gear Solid series is some serious video-games-as-art, in my book. Very few games achieve the "complete package" feeling of this series. It tells a complex story with a positive message, presents it in a wildly entertaining way, manages to not forget that it's a videogame at heart by showcasing an astounding attention to detail in its mechanics and open-ended approach; all while making fun of itself.
It's a game series that truly showcases how videogames are different from the other media it's so commonly compared to. It tells a story as meaty as any novel, presents it as well as any movie, all while still immersing you with gameplay that thinks of just about all the possibilities.
I never believed Hideo Kojima wanted out of the series at all. There's no way he could have made MGS2, 3, and 4 as good as they were if he had resentments about making them.
I also find it extremely disingenuous that people criticize Hideo Kojima for the amount of cutscenes in his games, saying that they may as well be movies. No, they may NOT as well be movies because there's plenty of detailed, fun gameplay to be had in the time you aren't watching the characters and plot develop. An aspiring film-maker wouldn't care enough to pack the world full of details and easter eggs...wouldn't care enough to craft a whole close-combat system - that's purely OPTIONAL, by the way - just so you can have another way of going about your mission outside just killing/tranq'ing your enemies...the list goes on. Kojima is a game-maker, not a failed movie director or anything.
TL;DR - Metal Gear is art because it showcases how games are a synthesis of many different media, all while demonstrating that there's no way in hell it would have worked as anything other than a video game. For me, it's the foremost "complete package" of gaming and my second favorite series of all time, behind Zelda.
The Metal Gear Solid series is some serious video-games-as-art, in my book. Very few games achieve the "complete package" feeling of this series. It tells a complex story with a positive message, presents it in a wildly entertaining way, manages to not forget that it's a videogame at heart by showcasing an astounding attention to detail in its mechanics and open-ended approach; all while making fun of itself.
It's a game series that truly showcases how videogames are different from the other media it's so commonly compared to. It tells a story as meaty as any novel, presents it as well as any movie, all while still immersing you with gameplay that thinks of just about all the possibilities.
I never believed Hideo Kojima wanted out of the series at all. There's no way he could have made MGS2, 3, and 4 as good as they were if he had resentments about making them.
I also find it extremely disingenuous that people criticize Hideo Kojima for the amount of cutscenes in his games, saying that they may as well be movies. No, they may NOT as well be movies because there's plenty of detailed, fun gameplay to be had in the time you aren't watching the characters and plot develop. An aspiring film-maker wouldn't care enough to pack the world full of details and easter eggs...wouldn't care enough to craft a whole close-combat system - that's purely OPTIONAL, by the way - just so you can have another way of going about your mission outside just killing/tranq'ing your enemies...the list goes on. Kojima is a game-maker, not a failed movie director or anything.
TL;DR - Metal Gear is art because it showcases how games are a synthesis of many different media, all while demonstrating that there's no way in hell it would have worked as anything other than a video game. For me, it's the foremost "complete package" of gaming and my second favorite series of all time, behind Zelda.
If the new shight cash grab movies can be considered art, then every video game can be considered art, whether it was made for the purpose of art or just to get money.