what happened to doctors?

[LikeDustInTheWind]

Y'all seem to forget a national healthcare system would infringe on a persons God given right to individualism. That's why the USA doesn't tax its citizens and has no welfare system.

I'm pretty sure this is sarcasm but on the off chance it isn't, that's retarded.

 

[Mr.Squishy]

Well, perhaps you should change your awful health care?
A healthy Swede sends his regards.

Same, though I'm his neighbour to the west. That's where Norway is located.
Point still stands though.

 

[band43seat]

dont we canadians love the fact we dont have to go through insurence to get a doctor, maybe americans should stop bitching about free healthcare in parliment

 

[emeraldrafael]

Eh. The us needs to redo its system, but <url=http://www.balancedpolitics.org/universal_health_care.htm>universal isnt <url=http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=9272>all that <url=http://www.examiner.com/carroll-county-conservative-in-atlanta/the-problems-with-universal-healthcare>great either.

EDIT: put in links. the last one is from Georgia from a guy who graduated from a Georgian university, so his degree is only worth about a ninth grade special education class.

Im kidding, before over reaction occurs.

 

[Blaster395]

the first was my brothers girlfriends mothers boyfriend(confusing right?) was coughing up blood, the doctor turned him away because they dont accept his insurance, didnt even look at him, just asked him what insurance he had, he told them and they told him to get out. he was dead later that day.

In emergencies treatment should be performed first and questions asked later.

 

[emeraldrafael]

...

Eh. The us needs to redo its system, but <url=http://www.balancedpolitics.org/universal_health_care.htm>universal isnt <url=http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=9272>all that <url=http://www.examiner.com/carroll-county-conservative-in-atlanta/the-problems-with-universal-healthcare>great either.

EDIT: put in links. the last one is from Georgia from a guy who graduated from a Georgian university, so his degree is only worth about a ninth grade special education class.

Im kidding, before over reaction occurs.

For some reason I can't bring myself to trust a website called 'BalancedPolitics.org', no matter how good it may be

Its a list of the pros and cons of the US switching to national health care in the sense of just dropping what we have now and using what Canada or the UK has as a clean break.

 

[Kontar]

Doctors themselves aren't the ones turning people away in emergencies if they don't have insurance or the wrong insurance. That falls squarely on the shoulders of the administration of the various hospitals. Most doctors despise the administration of any given hospital because they cut the pay of the doctors, while voting to increase their own pay, they turn away people who need help based on insurance, and they are in charge of who the doctors actually help. The administration runs the hospitals like a business, and businesses are meant to make money, treating people for free loses money, thus they refuse to treat people for free. I know all this because most my family are in the medical field so I hear about this ALL the time.

The American health system is inherently broken and without immediate fixing we are hurtling head first into a major fucking problem. I only wish "tea party-ers" could see that a universal health care system of some sort (like they have all over in Europe) will not get rid of any of their freedoms what-so-ever (well, except for their freedom to make sure illegal aliens aren't taken care of), and will not ruin America and send us all straight to hell.

 

[whiteshark12]

and espesially that hippocratic oath? it seems that in the last few years its been added in "as long as the patient can afford it".

i ask this for two occurances that happened around me

*person with severe chest injuries/infection turned away*

*Ambulance sues patient for costs*

Damn, while I normally don't do this AMERIKA SUKS kind of thing, This is appalling compared to Britain's NHS, which while bloated and slow still works fine.

 

[Yopaz]

A few months ago I woke up with crippling pains and was unable to move, all I could do was twist in pain and scream occasionally because the pain was too much. After a few hours I decided to call an ambulance. They picked me up within half an hour, an hour after that they had taken tests, given me painkillers enough to knock me out for 45 minutes before I woke up. Then I got a few prescriptions and an appointment to get an X-ray of my kidneys the day after. I had to pay a small fee for the X-ray and the medicines. Otherwise it was all free.'

Your problem is tha you live in America.

 

[LuckyClover95]

This is horrible, as if he died!
I live in the UK, wiiiiin

 

[Shadowkire]

Derek Styles is from TCUK.
it,s because the medicare in the US is inherently broken, in Holland they accept you in a hospital as long as you are insured (which is required by law) it doesn't matter which hospital you go to as long as you are insured.

We need a law like this. Make it so it doesn't matter which hospital you are taken to or what insurance company you are with, you get treated anyway.

 

[Shadowkire]

You have the right to live. You don't have the right to force someone to give you open heart surgery just because he has a doctorate.
Medical science costs money. A lot of it. And in America we're not really about higher taxes so hospitals have to advance in the only way they can. In fact, capitalism is the only reason we're not trying to use penicillin to cure cancer. R&D costs a hell of a lot of money and resources, and first world countries have to get that money from somewhere. And with constant (nigh insane) war efforts and trying to help out other countries, we can't afford to have socialized medicine, as nice as it would be.
Yeah you have a right to be helped, but that is all you have, you don't have the right to force someone to help you. "Do no harm" =/= "help everyone for free". As someone else posted, if you have a problem with our medicine, devote your time to helping Africans, it's not cheap, and it's not easy, and helping people usually has consequences.

Problem Numero Uno: Ever see Scrubs? Ever see that episode where Chris Turk gives a choking man a tracheotomy with a steak knife and a straw because he can't dislodge the hazard? In real life that results in a hospital visit, in real life since it was not at a hospital, that man can be an asshole and sue. And this isn't a hypothetical anymore, doctors get sued for saving lives ALL THE TIME. In real life if Sacred Hearts Hospital had heard about this they would have put him before a committee and probably suspended him without pay, if they didn't immediately fire him. You know why? Because Turk is not an EMT, he could have killed the man or crippled him for life, and if his actions caused even a frivolous lawsuit the hospital would be all over him in a second.

Niban: Over crowding of ERs and the countless people who DON'T have insurance causes major back ups. Just imagine how long the wait at a hospital will be when every mother who thinks pink eye will kill her child no longer has to pay.

Third: Insurance likes to not pay. Did you know that? Even when the insurance gives the clear for an operation, or even just a prescription, they still like to hold off paying as long as possible. Yeah, there's your co-pay and your monthly payments at work.

4th: DOCTORS ARE POOR FOR MOST OF THEIR CAREER! Eight years of medical school isn't cheap, sometimes costs as much as multiple houses. Now imagine their insurance payments go away, they money they get from selling prescriptions goes away. Would you want a man operating on you if he can't even afford to wash his hair?


Medical science is a nightmare, leaps in medical technology are like Dante's Inferno, people sue doctors ALL THE TIME for no reason. And it's so far been the only way to make it work. Now imagine what will happen when insurance disappears, and now doctors can't even pay their bills, and your child has the flu. Guess how much that doctor is going to give a rat's ass.

The Hippocratic oath was first taken at a time when being a doctor was a symbol of status, when you helped people and they were grateful. Now being a doctor makes you the world's *****.

And the Hippocratic oath is not legally binding.

The truth, condensed and and streamlined.

 

[Tselis]

The free market will correct this. Or at least that's what they keep saying. I think by correct they mean 'kill off all those losers not able to afford the bill'.

 

[Dark marauder]

Why did the aamericans get all angry over obama wanting a more NHS like system (I am from the UK and just want to know)

 

[JochemDude]

Yes, American health care isn't health care because the only thing it cares for is your wallet. The USA really needs a good bit of socialism (AKA civilization) beaten into it if you ask me.

Also can someone explain why seeing as nearly no one over there can pay health care, people still don't like Obama's health care plans? I'm left clueless on American logic on that.

 

[DannyJBeckett]

America. Land of the Free (as long as you have money).

It's ridiculous that a first world country exists without a national health system, but I suppose that's what happens when corporations have such a huge influence.

You say that but us Brits may lose our National Health System too. Thanks Cameron. It's as V always said, "The people shouldn't fear the government, the government should fear the people" and taking the NHS away will only strike a match to kindling. Note: The riots. Keep taking from people that can't afford it and they will bite back. Hard.

I doubt the Tories would take away the NHS. They'll fuck us over in other ways, but the NHS is, like you said, a trigger for more riots.

There has already been cuts around the NHS, being staff/resources and Cameron is getting massive pay-offs from Private Doctoring companies so it may be another case of "Well, I have private doctoring and I'm fine." By good ol' spoon-fed Cameron. Though if Cleggy had any backbone maybe we'd have had some kind of balance in our party.

Off Topic: What I really want to know is the opinion on Americans getting NHS (as there has been rumours), whether they want it or not as well as their direct opinion on the way the NHS works? It's interesting, very interesting.

Listen, I'm never going to stand up for David Cameron, but the reason there are cuts in the NHS is NOT because of the government wanting to privatise it or anything ludicrous like that. It's because every year it haemorrhages money like you wouldn't believe. I'm not talking about the money that actually goes towards making sick people better, I'm talking about money that gets drained on overlooking problems that go on to cause even more sickness in people, or using over-the-top treatments when something far more simple would have been equally viable, or people being kept in hospitals when it would be much easier to send them home and have a nurse check on them, and other wasteful things like that.

Oh and about the riots. Bull, Fucking, Shit was it about people who have nothing fighting back. It was about idiots who didn't have that damn sense to MAKE anything of themselves blindly smashing, destroying, and taking what their own stupidity denied them. It was about a culture of take-take-take, mine-mine-mine reaching overload, where selfishness and opportunism take control of masses, and to hell with all those who want to protect whatever they try to defend. Surely you saw the pictures of people who'd stolen £1 bags of rice, or completely emptied a pound-shop? You honestly can't tell me that some people couldn't afford what they stole.

 

[DannyJBeckett]

Also can someone explain why seeing as nearly no one over there can pay health care, people still don't like Obama's health care plans? I'm left clueless on American logic on that.

Because the sorts of people opposing it are the same sort of people who oppose Obama because he's black, or because he's a Democrat. They're the sort of stick-in-the-mud crackpots who would yell 'boo' at Obama even if his organisation directly funded research that found the cure for all Cancers. They're the sort of idiots who give the American right-wing such a bad name. (I'm no Conservative, mind you)

 

[Leonartheinsane]

America. Land of the Free (as long as you have money).

It's ridiculous that a first world country exists without a national health system, but I suppose that's what happens when corporations have such a huge influence.

You say that but us Brits may lose our National Health System too. Thanks Cameron. It's as V always said, "The people shouldn't fear the government, the government should fear the people" and taking the NHS away will only strike a match to kindling. Note: The riots. Keep taking from people that can't afford it and they will bite back. Hard.

I doubt the Tories would take away the NHS. They'll fuck us over in other ways, but the NHS is, like you said, a trigger for more riots.

There has already been cuts around the NHS, being staff/resources and Cameron is getting massive pay-offs from Private Doctoring companies so it may be another case of "Well, I have private doctoring and I'm fine." By good ol' spoon-fed Cameron. Though if Cleggy had any backbone maybe we'd have had some kind of balance in our party.

Off Topic: What I really want to know is the opinion on Americans getting NHS (as there has been rumours), whether they want it or not as well as their direct opinion on the way the NHS works? It's interesting, very interesting.

Listen, I'm never going to stand up for David Cameron, but the reason there are cuts in the NHS is NOT because of the government wanting to privatise it or anything ludicrous like that. It's because every year it haemorrhages money like you wouldn't believe. I'm not talking about the money that actually goes towards making sick people better, I'm talking about money that gets drained on overlooking problems that go on to cause even more sickness in people, or using over-the-top treatments when something far more simple would have been equally viable, or people being kept in hospitals when it would be much easier to send them home and have a nurse check on them, and other wasteful things like that.

Oh and about the riots. Bull, Fucking, Shit was it about people who have nothing fighting back. It was about idiots who didn't have that damn sense to MAKE anything of themselves blindly smashing, destroying, and taking what their own stupidity denied them. It was about a culture of take-take-take, mine-mine-mine reaching overload, where selfishness and opportunism take control of masses, and to hell with all those who want to protect whatever they try to defend. Surely you saw the pictures of people who'd stolen £1 bags of rice, or completely emptied a pound-shop? You honestly can't tell me that some people couldn't afford what they stole.

Second what Danny says. Cameron isn't an right wing idiot with a view to kill all poor, after all they represent a massive vote. The NHS had to make cuts like everything else in England because while we are in a weak financial state we can't just keep spending, we need to save. Danny got the riots bang on to. It was just a load of bored idiots with nothing to do on their hands, it wasn't the end of the world and was very well handled by the police.

Oh and I'm so glad I've got the NHS after reading this thread!

 

[razer17]

But of course, a nationalised health-care system murders old ladies and cripples - if Stephen Hawking was British, the NHS would have left him to die! (yes, that was a line used in the States vs Obama's proposals for reform. Yes, Stephen Hawking is British.)

I really don't get that argument against national healthcare anyway. Everyone here gets treatment to the best of the doctors abilities. It doesn't matter if your a 75 year old cripple or a (usually) healthy 16 year old. You go into hospital with a legit problem, you get treated. The only time you have the "death panels" as I've seen them called is for when there is a lack of organs, in which case the organ will go to the person who is most likely to have the longest life if given the organ. Which is a much better system than giving it to the highest bidder. Most Republicans must be dumb asses, especially the poorer ones who'd actually benefit from proper free health care.

OT: We don't have that sort of problem. Thanks to the NHS. It might not be the best or most efficient system, but it's better than dying because you don't have insurance. And you can get private hospital care if you want it, and can afford it.

That being said, it's not really the doctors fault they can't treat you. It's mostly out of their hands, the system is controlled by government and hospital administrators.