What in the world is Dark Souls...

[DustyDrB]

I think people oversell Demon's Souls difficulty. It has a few parts that may get you (for me, it was Flamelurker, King Allant, and the 5-2 swamp. No real trouble anywhere else, and I was a melee only player). It is punishing if you do something stupid to get yourself killed, as it sends you back to the beginning of the sub-level and you lose all the souls (XP) you had accumulated unless you can make it back to the spot where you died and touch your bloodstain. But all this talk about Demon's Souls is a game for "true hardcore gamers" or whatever kind of just makes me roll me eyes. The basics of the game are easy to pick up and remain largely unchanged throughout the game. You may need a small bit of help on two things: Where to spend souls to level up your character and what weapons to use (and how to level up those weapons).

It's a good game. It's not perfect, and it's not the kind of game I want to play all the time (the atmosphere gets old. Other than the Shrine of Storms, it's almost always dreary and there is no music outside of boss fights. The lack of music really feels odd, even though it makes sense. Audio cues can help you hear enemies around corners). So I won't be getting Dark Souls any time soon (especially since I heard they are going for even more grimdark). I'll likely get it eventually, when my personal grimdark fatigue meter resets.

 

[TheDooD]

Its the "Spiritual Successor" to Demon's Souls.

They decided instead of just making it like Demon's Souls, they were going to Make it an open world game, add more loot, and lots of dragons. And not because Skyrim was doing all of that.

Nope. Definitely not.
Basically, its an Action Hack/Slash game, with RPG elements. The big selling point right now is that its combat is better then Skyrim's. But considering Skyrim is an RPG game with Action Elements, i wonder why....

Oh well. All you need to know is its going to be a decent game that rips many of its ideas off of a game it knows it cant beat.

Its "Darksiders" to "Legend of Zelda". Take the best ideas and try to 1up them.
And dont get me wrong. I really liked Demon's Souls. But its pretty blatant to see what they were trying to do with Dark Souls.

ok, seems like a pretty good description for me. I think i will stick with Skyrim this fall, i love the rpg element, even if oblivion's combat wasn't that fantastic

Yeah, it basically comes down to which is more important to you. Mindless combat with absurd difficulty, or a thick story with amazing characters, plot devices and loot drops.

Demon's Souls combat was no where near mindless and it wasn't hard unless you took the combat as mindless that's when things its difficult. Plus the game had some pretty cool characters and bosses. Biorr of The Twin Fangs, that crazy ass old soldier. Flamelurker one of the most badass fire based bosses in years. Tower Knight was intimidating as fuck the first time I faced him.

 

[Juventus]

Yeah, it basically comes down to which is more important to you. Mindless combat with absurd difficulty, or a thick story with amazing characters, plot devices and loot drops.

bethesda games have thick stories, and amazing characters?

did bethesda and bioware switch places?

 

[HazelrahFiver]

Yeah, it basically comes down to which is more important to you. Mindless combat with absurd difficulty, or a thick story with amazing characters, plot devices and loot drops.

What the heck?? Mindless combat?! Demon's Souls (and in turn Dark Souls) is known for having the most precise and accurate combat in any game to date? What in god's holy name are you blathering about? Oblivion (and in turn Skyrim) will have far more slashing as you stand next to a mob, allowing it to hit you dumbly, because the game is built like a retarded RPG. I don't want to be mean, because I plan on getting Skyrim as well, but it suffers from dumb-combat like all the other Elder Scroll games (and most rpgs).

 

[Stall]

-snip-

Your fanboy is showing. You should take care of that.

How in the name of fuck could you believe Dark Souls is a "rip-off" of Skyrim when the games really have nothing to do with one another? Are you just trying to be a jerk, or are you really just that devoted and fanatical about Skyrim that any other RPG coming out this year with dragons is a "rip-off"?

 

[SpaceBat]

It's the sequel to Demon's souls, which is a fun game only remembered for its gameplay. It's basically an action-RPG that focuses on the playing itself and ignores everything else. Dark Souls seems to be just more of the same (see Galaxy - Galaxy 2), with a few improvements here and there.

Get it if you just want some good gameplay, avoid it otherwise.

 

[kouriichi]

Its the "Spiritual Successor" to Demon's Souls.

They decided instead of just making it like Demon's Souls, they were going to Make it an open world game, add more loot, and lots of dragons. And not because Skyrim was doing all of that.

Nope. Definitely not.
Basically, its an Action Hack/Slash game, with RPG elements. The big selling point right now is that its combat is better then Skyrim's. But considering Skyrim is an RPG game with Action Elements, i wonder why....

Oh well. All you need to know is its going to be a decent game that rips many of its ideas off of a game it knows it cant beat.

Its "Darksiders" to "Legend of Zelda". Take the best ideas and try to 1up them.
And dont get me wrong. I really liked Demon's Souls. But its pretty blatant to see what they were trying to do with Dark Souls.

ok, seems like a pretty good description for me. I think i will stick with Skyrim this fall, i love the rpg element, even if oblivion's combat wasn't that fantastic

Yeah, it basically comes down to which is more important to you. Mindless combat with absurd difficulty, or a thick story with amazing characters, plot devices and loot drops.

Demon's Souls combat was no where near mindless and it wasn't hard unless you took the combat as mindless that's when things its difficult. Plus the game had some pretty cool characters and bosses. Biorr of The Twin Fangs, that crazy ass old soldier. Flamelurker one of the most badass fire based bosses in years. Tower Knight was intimidating as fuck the first time I faced him.

Didnt the combat always boil down to "Dodge/block, Spam attack button, dodge/block again"?
It was as simple and mindless as any hack and slash game. The entire game revolved around kiting enemys as far as you could before trying to roll behind them, to kite them some more.

Dont get me wrong, i liked Demon Souls, but i had no trouble beating it. :/ I didnt see a challenge because of how simple the combat was. Even the weapon choices were pretty limited to "Fast Weapon", "Slow Weapon", "Slower weapon", "Ranged Weapon", and "Even Faster Weapon". And 90% of the time, taking the slow weapons was a stupid idea because you would get hammered while your guy fails to dodge/roll.

It was mindless hack and slash, with the only strategic value behind it being "Dodge and attack to win".

 

[kouriichi]

-snip-

Your fanboy is showing. You should take care of that.

How in the name of fuck could you believe Dark Souls is a "rip-off" of Skyrim when the games really have nothing to do with one another? Are you just trying to be a jerk, or are you really just that devoted and fanatical about Skyrim that any other RPG coming out this year with dragons is a "rip-off"?

You know, to be honest, i was leaning towards Dark Souls being the better of the two. But they took half of what TES is, and threw it into Dark Souls.

Open world? Yeah, Demon's souls was basically linear hack and slash. The biggest element of The Elder Scrolls? Theyre basically adding it to a game that doesnt need it.

Dragons? I dont remember hearing about dragons in Dark Souls until a while ago, long after skyrim was announced, and trailers showed dragons.

And the biggest selling point of the game is, "ITS NOT EASY D:< YOU WILL DIE", which i feel is just trying to one up every game out there. I played and beat Demons Souls. It wasnt half as hard as i thought it would be. The only times i died where when the clunky controls screwed me up, or the designers felt that they need to put in a part where death was almost Unavoidable.

Demon's souls was barly RPG to begin with. The moral System was basically, "Are you a Saint or a Sinner" like so many other RPG's, which again, i feel is thrown into the game because of how many other games have used it. It adds nothing to the game, and if it was removed, it wouldnt subtract anything.

 

[Stall]

-snip-

Your fanboy is still showing.

The complexity of DS's combat comes from the minor variations and behavior of the individual weapons. Each weapon had a slightly different pattern and reach to it to the point where no single weapon ever felt the same. Your gross over-simplification of the 'weapon classes' does no justice to the game, and goes to show how little you probably know (or remember) about DS. There is NO single game with that kind of attention to detail. In most games, the weapons feel very interchangeable; but in Demons Souls, each weapon feels like its own weapon, with their own weight, reach, speed, and responsiveness. It's an incredible touch that the inattentive might not notice.

And the slow weapons were some of the best in the game. Again, that just shows how LITTLE you really understand (or remember about) what you are discussing. Like I said, all the weapons handle very differently one another. You can't just interchange each weapon and expect the same strategy to work every time, as you so clearly demonstrated by saying you think the slow weapons suck. The slow weapons require careful and very mindful attention to timing, and a more through and complete understanding of each individual mobs' attack pattern, since you have to know when to exploit a weakness. The combat had an incredible amount of complexity, and requires a remarkable attention to detail.

And fucking seriously? A "mindless hack and slash"? The stat system in DS was incredibly complex and deep. The character building is far, FAR deeper than EVERY hack and slash out there, and perhaps more complex than many, MANY RPGs as well. The only builds that really "feel" the same are str, dex, and quality builds. How you can refer to a game as "mindless" when it has such a spectacularly robust stat system is beyond me. Even further, the upgrade system adds an additional layer of complexity as well, with tons of upgrade paths that play to different builds and different play styles.

It wasn't a mindless hack and slash. If you think so, you are either just trying to be provocative for the sake of pissing people off, or played the game very "wrong".

 

[kouriichi]

Yeah, it basically comes down to which is more important to you. Mindless combat with absurd difficulty, or a thick story with amazing characters, plot devices and loot drops.

What the heck?? Mindless combat?! Demon's Souls (and in turn Dark Souls) is known for having the most precise and accurate combat in any game to date? What in god's holy name are you blathering about? Oblivion (and in turn Skyrim) will have far more slashing as you stand next to a mob, allowing it to hit you dumbly, because the game is built like a retarded RPG. I don't want to be mean, because I plan on getting Skyrim as well, but it suffers from dumb-combat like all the other Elder Scroll games (and most rpgs).

Precise? xD Accurate? Then entire combat system was "Dodge, Spam attack button, dodge" and you rinse and repeat till everything was dead. Weapon choice is relatively limited because taking anything that slows you is a stupid idea, when combat revolves around you dodging unblockable attacks constantly.

There was almost no precision to the game. I like it and everything, but it overly simplistic.

 

[maddawg IAJI]

Its the "Spiritual Successor" to Demon's Souls.

They decided instead of just making it like Demon's Souls, they were going to Make it an open world game, add more loot, and lots of dragons. And not because Skyrim was doing all of that.

Nope. Definitely not.
Basically, its an Action Hack/Slash game, with RPG elements. The big selling point right now is that its combat is better then Skyrim's. But considering Skyrim is an RPG game with Action Elements, i wonder why....

Yep, and Skyrim is doing the exact same thing. How dare they rip off Dragon Age Origins like that?

Seriously though dude, people have been using that formula for as long as gaming has existed. Dragon age did it, Dungeon and Dragon games have done, Monster Hunter games have done it, even freaking Two Worlds has done it. The RPG with a dragon in it is perhaps the most unoriginal idea in the world, so don't go bashing one game for doing it when another game isn't exactly innovative.

 

[kouriichi]

-snip-

Your fanboy is still showing.

The complexity of DS's combat comes from the minor variations and behavior of the individual weapons. Each weapon had a slightly different pattern and reach to it to the point where no single weapon ever felt the same. Your gross over-simplification of the 'weapon classes' does no justice to the game, and goes to show how little you probably know (or remember) about DS. There is NO single game with that kind of attention to detail. In most games, the weapons feel very interchangeable; but in Demons Souls, each weapon feels like its own weapon, with their own weight, reach, speed, and responsiveness. It's an incredible touch that the inattentive might not notice.

And the slow weapons were some of the best in the game. Again, that just shows how LITTLE you really understand (or remember about) what you are discussing. Like I said, all the weapons handle very differently one another. You can't just interchange each weapon and expect the same strategy to work every time, as you so clearly demonstrated by saying you think the slow weapons suck. The slow weapons require careful and very mindful attention to timing, and a more through and complete understanding of each individual mobs' attack pattern, since you have to know when to exploit a weakness. The combat had an incredible amount of complexity, and requires a remarkable attention to detail.

And fucking seriously? A "mindless hack and slash"? The stat system in DS was incredibly complex and deep. The character building is far, FAR deeper than EVERY hack and slash out there, and perhaps more complex than many, MANY RPGs as well. The only builds that really "feel" the same are str, dex, and quality builds. How you can refer to a game as "mindless" when it has such a spectacularly robust stat system is beyond me. Even further, the upgrade system adds an additional layer of complexity as well, with tons of upgrade paths that play to different builds and different play styles.

It wasn't a mindless hack and slash. If you think so, you are either just trying to be provocative for the sake of pissing people off, or played the game very "wrong".

And your fanboy isnt showing? xD

And if i played the game wrong, why did i beat it?
And i didnt say the game itself was mindless, i said the combat was. The meat of the game always boils down to the same thing.

And "understanding of each individual mobs attack pattern" is basically saying, "Know when to mash the dodge button, and know when to spam your attack". The same can be said about ANY GAME! Call of Duty had the same depth if you want to go by your analysis. Every weapon feels slightly different, and knowing when your enemy is going to attack, and when your safe to attack yourself.

 

[Korten12]

-snip-

Your fanboy is showing. You should take care of that.

How in the name of fuck could you believe Dark Souls is a "rip-off" of Skyrim when the games really have nothing to do with one another? Are you just trying to be a jerk, or are you really just that devoted and fanatical about Skyrim that any other RPG coming out this year with dragons is a "rip-off"?

You know, to be honest, i was leaning towards Dark Souls being the better of the two. But they took half of what TES is, and threw it into Dark Souls.

Open world? Yeah, Demon's souls was basically linear hack and slash. The biggest element of The Elder Scrolls? Theyre basically adding it to a game that doesnt need it.

Yup, because we all know that Open World didn't exist until Elder Scrolls.

Dragons? I dont remember hearing about dragons in Dark Souls until a while ago, long after skyrim was announced, and trailers showed dragons.

There was Dragons in Demon's Souls and there was a dragon in the very first trailer for Dark Souls.

And the biggest selling point of the game is, "ITS NOT EASY D:< YOU WILL DIE", which i feel is just trying to one up every game out there. I played and beat Demons Souls. It wasnt half as hard as i thought it would be. The only times i died where when the clunky controls screwed me up, or the designers felt that they need to put in a part where death was almost Unavoidable.

Clunky Controls? The scheme was near-perfect, also very responsive. Also there wasn't any part where they made Death almost unavoidable.

Demon's souls was barly RPG to begin with. The moral System was basically, "Are you a Saint or a Sinner" like so many other RPG's, which again, i feel is thrown into the game because of how many other games have used it. It adds nothing to the game, and if it was removed, it wouldnt subtract anything.

The Moral System in Demon's Souls wasn't a moral system. It was basically, if you don't die, your World tendency goes lighter, and if you died often in Body Form, it went darker. Darker meant the enemies and level were harder, while opposite for White Tendency. This unlocked area's, made Tendency-specific bosses appear. It was a quite complex system, unlike in most RPGs where it's there just for the sake of being there.

 

[Stall]

Open world? Yeah, Demon's souls was basically linear hack and slash. The biggest element of The Elder Scrolls? Theyre basically adding it to a game that doesnt need it.

So every game with an open world is a TES rip-off? Right...

I mean, how does this make sense? Are game series not allowed to evolve and change? That's basically what you are saying. Since From has the absolute NERVE to try to make a sequel better and bigger, then it is ripping off Skyrim. What the fuck man? Aren't sequels SUPPOSED to improve on the formula set down by the previous game? Isn't that what FROM is doing here? Taking the formula they put forth in Demons Souls and making it even better in Dark Souls?

Dude, seriously. How is including an open world a "rip-off" of Skyrim? That's basically what you are saying.

Dragons? I dont remember hearing about dragons in Dark Souls until a while ago, long after skyrim was announced, and trailers showed dragons.

BRB. Calling every fantasy author ever and letting them know the addition of dragons to their games means they are ripping off Skyrim.

And the biggest selling point of the game is, "ITS NOT EASY D:< YOU WILL DIE", which i feel is just trying to one up every game out there. I played and beat Demons Souls. It wasnt half as hard as i thought it would be. The only times i died where when the clunky controls screwed me up, or the designers felt that they need to put in a part where death was almost Unavoidable.

I'm not even going to comment on this. This is basically saying TES can't have an open world as a selling point, or Arkham City can't use "You play as Batman" as a selling point.

You're basically saying "Yeah, sequels can't use the reason why a lot of people liked the first game as a selling point". How. Does. That. Make. Sense?

Demon's souls was barly RPG to begin with. The moral System was basically, "Are you a Saint or a Sinner" like so many other RPG's, which again, i feel is thrown into the game because of how many other games have used it. It adds nothing to the game, and if it was removed, it wouldnt subtract anything.

Um okay. Demons Souls had no pretense about being an RPG. It was a hack and slash with RPG elements. Those RPG elements were very, VERY deep... probably deeper than the RPG elements of many real RPGs, but they were nonetheless JUST elements. Even further, there was JUST ONE MORAL CHOICE. I really don't think ONE single choice makes it into a whole fucking "system". Doesn't "system" imply a lot of choices? One single part doesn't constitute a system: a system by definition is many parts.

Even further, since when has TES had any pretense of a moral choice system either? Isn't the TES games the EXACT same of what you accuse Demons Souls of committing? And worse yet, Demons Souls is a hack and slash with RPG elements, while TES is a pure RPG. So shouldn't you be bashing the TES series even harder for this?

So yes, your fanboy is still showing.

 

[kouriichi]

Its the "Spiritual Successor" to Demon's Souls.

They decided instead of just making it like Demon's Souls, they were going to Make it an open world game, add more loot, and lots of dragons. And not because Skyrim was doing all of that.

Nope. Definitely not.
Basically, its an Action Hack/Slash game, with RPG elements. The big selling point right now is that its combat is better then Skyrim's. But considering Skyrim is an RPG game with Action Elements, i wonder why....

Yep, and Skyrim is doing the exact same thing. How dare they rip off Dragon Age Origins like that?

Seriously though dude, people have been using that formula for as long as gaming has existed. Dragon age did it, Dungeon and Dragon games have done, Monster Hunter games have done it, even freaking Two Worlds has done it. The RPG with a dragon in it is perhaps the most unoriginal idea in the world, so don't go bashing one game for doing it when another game isn't exactly innovative.

Not really. Dragons were a part of TES lore long before Dragon Age showed up xD They only became part of Skyrim because they needed a different main character who wasnt an average joe, the reincarnation of a god, or some hobo with a destiny.

But im saying its odd that i hear about dragons being in Dark Souls, only after i hear about skyrim having dragons as a main part of their game.

 

[Stall]

But im saying its odd that i hear about dragons being in Dark Souls, only after i hear about skyrim having dragons as a main part of their game.

http://www.joystiq.com/2011/02/02/first-dark-souls-trailer-and-screens-are-appropriately-dark/

Note the date: Feb 2, 2011. This is some of the first info on Dark Souls. Note that there is a dragon in the trailer at 1:52.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSRtYpNRoN0

Note the date: Feb 23, 2011. This was the first trailer for Skyrim.

 

[Stall]

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention something:

Dark Souls was probably in development for many years before it was announced, meaning that it probably was an open world game well before we even knew the 5th Elder's Scroll game was going to be in Skyrim. There is no way outside of the manipulation of the fabric of space and time that From Software could have heard a new TES game was coming out the same year they were releasing Dark Souls, and then manage to ENTIRELY REDO the game so that it can be open world and still launch it on the planned date.

 

[Ahoge-dono]

I like how the escalation of this debate has amounted to, "Dark Souls is copying Skyrim because it has fantasy elements that are similar." That's implying that Skyrim is the only game allowed to have the right to use a European Fantasy based story. I even find it more ridiculous that people believe just because both games have dragons means that Dark Souls is ripping off Skyrim. If you really wanna get technical, I'm pretty sure the Ultima series (1983) was the first fantasy game to have dragons so by that logic, Dark Souls and the TES series are clearly ripping off Ultima.

And those who say that Demon's Souls only comes to midless hack, slashing, and rolling around has never went up against a high SL Black Phantom.