What is it with people and fanfiction?

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Angelblaze

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Jun 17, 2010
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silver wolf009 said:
Genocidicles said:
silver wolf009 said:
Making that many people laugh, or cry, or whatever you did with the work is about as far from pointless as can be.
Ah I meant pointless to read them, not write them.
Well what works have a point?

The things that come to mind for me are history and science books, how to guides, and new articles.
So basically non-fiction.

So fiction stories are all pointless.
Yay for over-generalization.

Genocidicles said:
silver wolf009 said:
Well what works have a point?

The things that come to mind for me are history and science books, how to guides, and new articles.
You misunderstand. I assume people read fanfiction because they want more of what the original work offered. I find it pointless to do so, as the fanfiction will never be acknowledged by the original work in anyway.
There's an episode of Supernatural where they actually do throw a bone to the - well my god the entire series is basically fanfiction at some points but there is one episode in particular that actually starts off with them literally talking directly about the fanfiction between the two main characters.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cF8gd6UICx4
 

FoxKitsune

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Jun 23, 2012
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That is me, yeah, and until I did a quick google search there I didn't even know who Phreak was! I wondered for a moment if you were calling me a freak! Thank god I didn't start e-crying immediately, that could have been embarrassing...
 

silver wolf009

[[NULL]]
Jan 23, 2010
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Angelblaze said:
silver wolf009 said:
Genocidicles said:
silver wolf009 said:
Making that many people laugh, or cry, or whatever you did with the work is about as far from pointless as can be.
Ah I meant pointless to read them, not write them.
Well what works have a point?

The things that come to mind for me are history and science books, how to guides, and new articles.
So basically non-fiction.

So fiction stories are all pointless.
Yay for over-generalization.
Indeed. Only through over-generalization does my filing system work.
Genocidicles said:
silver wolf009 said:
Well what works have a point?

The things that come to mind for me are history and science books, how to guides, and new articles.
You misunderstand. I assume people read fanfiction because they want more of what the original work offered. I find it pointless to do so, as the fanfiction will never be acknowledged by the original work in anyway.
We can dream.

*Whimsically looks to the stars.*

And dream, and dream, and dream...
 

Entitled

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Aug 27, 2012
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Genocidicles said:
silver wolf009 said:
Well what works have a point?

The things that come to mind for me are history and science books, how to guides, and new articles.
You misunderstand. I assume people read fanfiction because they want more of what the original work offered. I find it pointless to do so, as the fanfiction will never be acknowledged by the original work in anyway.
I think that's an obviously flawd definition, from the perspective that if people would want more of the exact same thing, well, then they would read more of the same thing instead of some other similar stories.

Most fanfiction is either taking place in an alternate universe setting, or shipping that relies on arbitrarily changing personalities, or even a crossover, or a "what if" scenario, or a side character spinoff.

A relatively small fragment of it is explicitly trying to be a sequel done in the "original flavor", while respecting all the canon.
 

Lilani

Sometimes known as CaitieLou
May 27, 2009
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Kaulen Fuhs said:
At least in my eyes, if the writers for fanfiction were ever truly talented, they'd write their own shit. At least, that's how I see it.
Writing isn't something you're born with. Even the most talented writers have to practice to hone their skills and styles. And even in formal writing courses, a common way to practice writing is to start with a pre-determined premise and build a story on top of that. You're given some sort of setup, like a situation, a set of characters, or a general theme to follow and then you focus on the other aspects that aren't already determined by the premise. This is an effective kind of writing exercise because, depending on the setup, it allows the writer to specifically target certain things they need to practice. For instance, if they need to practice writing exchanges of dialog, then the premise can have something to do with two characters who are arguing about something. Or if they need to practice writing in a certain perspective, having a set plot to follow can allow them to approach the exact same story in two different ways.

Writing with a pre-determined setup is a common exercise in writing, just as studying and copying the works of other artists and the old masters is common for visual artists. There's even a fancy word for making a copy of a work purpose of studying it: pastiche. So the way I see it, fanfiction is no different from those sorts of writing exercises. People utilize just the cast, or sometimes the cast and certain aspects of the plot, and then make their own adjustments from there. They write their own dialog, sometimes add new characters, or if the work was originally written they might even change the perspective from first to third person, or third to first. The perspective in which a story is written has a huge impact on how the plot is revealed, so to change that perspective provides an interesting challenge to the writer, and opens up new possibilities while also restricting others that were previously possible.

If writing fanfiction is what compels a person to put their fingers to the keyboard and work out their own approach to writing and tackle the problems that come with writing stories, then I say more power to them. To say the practice isn't valuable would be like discouraging someone who exercises by playing with nerf guns in a live-action society rather than going to the gym and performing a regimented workout. Just because it's informal and they're having "fun" doesn't mean it is a total waste. Who knows, maybe getting their feet wet in fanfiction will inspire them to move onto greater things. Maybe not all, maybe not even most, but they're having fun and there needs to be a place for diamonds in the rough to begin their journeys.
 

Entitled

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Kaulen Fuhs said:
Someone thought up the "idea" of New York, yes, but not in a literary way. It's a real thing, and using it is no lesser a thing than having spoons exist in your universe.
Yes, but why is it less original to have your story use one pre-existing information, and not the other, based on in what way they formed in the past?

Let's say, if Writer A is sketching out a good drama, and upon realizing that he hasn't actually thought of a setting yet, decides that it should be some modern American city, say, New York.

Meanwhile, Writer Bwould be thinking a lot about where his characters would fit in the most, and being a huge Tolkien fan, his thoughts lead back to Minas Tirith again and again. This is a more unusual setting for a drama, with much more unrealized potential worldbuilding, and atmosphere that is yet to be invented about mundane life in Minas Tirith.

In what way, is the latter writer's choice making him inherently more "mediocre", or the former more original, and more likely to be "great"?
 

Angelblaze

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Lilani said:
Kaulen Fuhs said:
At least in my eyes, if the writers for fanfiction were ever truly talented, they'd write their own shit. At least, that's how I see it.
Writing isn't something you're born with. Even the most talented writers have to practice to hone their skills and styles. And even in formal writing courses, a common way to practice writing is to start with a pre-determined premise and build a story on top of that. You're given some sort of setup, like a situation, a set of characters, or a general theme to follow and then you focus on the other aspects that aren't already determined by the premise. This is an effective kind of writing exercise because, depending on the setup, it allows the writer to specifically target certain things they need to practice. For instance, if they need to practice writing exchanges of dialog, then the premise can have something to do with two characters who are arguing about something. Or if they need to practice writing in a certain perspective, having a set plot to follow can allow them to approach the exact same story in two different ways.

Writing with a pre-determined setup is a common exercise in writing, just as studying and copying the works of other artists and the old masters is common for visual artists. There's even a fancy word for making a copy of a work purpose of studying it: pastiche. So the way I see it, fanfiction is no different from those sorts of writing exercises. People utilize just the cast, or sometimes the cast and certain aspects of the plot, and then make their own adjustments from there. They write their own dialog, sometimes add new characters, or if the work was originally written they might even change the perspective from first to third person, or third to first. The perspective in which a story is written has a huge impact on how the plot is revealed, so to change that perspective provides an interesting challenge to the writer, and opens up new possibilities while also restricting others that were previously possible.

If writing fanfiction is what compels a person to put their fingers to the keyboard and work out their own approach to writing and tackle the problems that come with writing stories, then I say more power to them. To say the practice isn't valuable would be like discouraging someone who exercises by playing with nerf guns in a live-action society rather than going to the gym and performing a regimented workout. Just because it's informal and they're having "fun" doesn't mean it is a total waste. Who knows, maybe getting their feet wet in fanfiction will inspire them to move onto greater things. Maybe not all, maybe not even most, but they're having fun and there needs to be a place for diamonds in the rough to begin their journeys.
Lilani, I know I've said this before but I love you :(

Can I touch your brain so that some of its great wisdom will rub off on me? :D
--

Also noting: If it gets people to read and write, which many doom-criers are saying is not happening, then I really can't see a downside to it.

And for authors?
Bad fanfiction tells future authors: Okay, don't do THIS.
Good fanfictions tell future authors: See how this is done? Study and learn from THIS.
 

Lilani

Sometimes known as CaitieLou
May 27, 2009
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Kaulen Fuhs said:
All good and well, but as I've stated in this thread (a depressing number of times, for all the good it's done me), writing fanfiction is only, in my eyes, a negative thing if it's the only thing you ever write.
So what if it is the only thing a person ever writes? Not everybody who tries their hand at writing has to strive to become a published author, just as everybody who tries their hand at flying model planes doesn't need to strive for a collection that fills an industrial-sized warehouse. If they're having fun, then what's the harm? How is it any different from any other hobby? There are lots of people who play at making pottery at some point in their lives, and I don't see their casual approach to it affecting true artists or the fine pottery market as a whole.
 

Lilani

Sometimes known as CaitieLou
May 27, 2009
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Angelblaze said:
Lilani, I know I've said this before but I love you :(

Can I touch your brain so that some of its great wisdom will rub off on me? :D
LOL, thanks I guess. Now I feel all warm and fuzzy inside. Though I warn you--touching my brain may lead to you gaining excessive amounts of useless knowledge, like how to tell how old a lobster is[footnote]You can't actually, a lobster is one of the only known creatures that has no physical indications of age once it's reached adulthood.[/footnote] and the nickname of the Renaissance artist Donatello[footnote]Gattomelato, which means "honeyed cat." Nobody knows how or why he got this nickname.[/footnote].
 

Lilani

Sometimes known as CaitieLou
May 27, 2009
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Kaulen Fuhs said:
Um... none? Who said anything about harm? I was asked for my opinion, and I gave it. Why are people so uptight about someone's harmless opinion?
Considering your exact words were "writing fanfiction is only, in my eyes, a negative thing if it's the only thing you ever write," I sort of got the impression you were saying there was some sort of harm or something inherently bad about doing just that.
 

Lilani

Sometimes known as CaitieLou
May 27, 2009
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Kaulen Fuhs said:
Ah, I see how that could be misconstrued. No, I only mean that in the sense of my opinion of a writer, their unwillingness or inability to write something that isn't fanfic affects how I personally view their whole body of work.

Apologies for the hostility :[
Aaaaah I see, and agree with you there. It would be a shame for someone who does claim to be a "real" writer to limit themselves so, and to not even try. Sorry for my hostility, as well. And here is a cat video to celebrate our agreement~

 

Entitled

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Kaulen Fuhs said:
One is relying on the solely imaginary setting another human being created, while another is relying on what is, in the creative sense, identical to gravity; it is a phenomena that exists, and requires no creative "theft" (I realize this is not the perfect word, but I've been drinking a bit, and I trust you can understand what I'm trying to communicate).
Yeah, but even if we would say that "taking away" a specific human beings ideas is more immoral than dipping from the public domain of knowledge, even that in some way it harms them, what does this have to do with artisic greatness?

If New York's concept is a pre-existent information as much as Minas Tirith's, it seems to me that neither's typing requires lesser amounts of inspiration, effort, or a more divided amount of content.

Say what you want about information, but it's not a scarce material that can run out by too many peope "stealing it" from each other.

So the question remains, why is it leading to a worse novel as an end result, to copy an idea that was owned by no one, than to copy the same thing if it was owned by someone?


Kaulen Fuhs said:
And I don't mean to imply that not writing fanfic is more likely to make you "great"; there are plenty of non-fanfic shitty artists. Just that, for me, the true measure of an artist's work is how they surpass their influences and truly create something on their own.
I agre about that. What I disagree with you about, is whether fanfics can also surpass their influences and truly create something original and great, or this is the priviledge of original IPs.
 

lacktheknack

Je suis joined jewels.
Jan 19, 2009
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Usually, it's not worth reading. Sometimes, though, you get brilliance, be it actual plotted and excellently written spin-off fiction or dadaist hilarity.

<quote=HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH, Chapter 5>

The inquisitors were torturing Harry.

First, Ignatius used the rock.

Then Billy asked Harry if he wanted to read his BDSM blog. Harry was so surprised that his pants flew right off. He was wearing women's underpants.

The inquisitors were wearing them, too.

They realized that they were all men of the lord.

For best effect, have Microsoft Sam read it to you.