What is Star Wars Supposed to Be?

[Dirty Hipsters]

I will never fully understand why people hate midichlorians so much... it doesn't take any of the mystery out of the force.

Midichlorians explain 1 thing about the force: How people are able to interact with it (and maybe a few stems from there, like, how some people are force sensitive and others are not)... we still have no idea what the force is, where it comes from, why it's there, who or what discovered it, we know nothing.. nothing; that is pretty damn mysterious to me.

Contrary to what people selectively remember about the original trilogy, people wanted answers, they wanted to know what the force was, how people were force sensitive etc

Midichlorians is one of a host of ways of explaining small snippets that further the story, without ruining any of the mystery; I like knowing the reason why some people are force sensitive and others aren't, it was a big question that needed to be answered, why was Luke force sensitive and able to become a Jedi when so many of the people around him were not? Midichlorians, thank you and good bye. What explanation would people prefer? Luke was chosen by a god to be a Jedi? Luke just is a Jedi because it's a movie and we say so?

I disagreed with some of the video, but I am of the mind that a lot of the prequel trilogy wasn't even bad, and, dare I say, enjoyable.

I fall asleep in the second half of the original trilogy, boring, dull. Lightsaber choreography looks like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0ms24w_GKU.

If the new trilogy is part original, part prequel, it will be good. I have an optimistic outlook and wish people far too nostalgic for their own good would stop trying to ruin it for everybody else.

In the original trilogy it's never explained that some people are force sensitive and some aren't. In the first movie Luke is just some kid on a farm who finds out that his father was a jedi knight and decides he wants to follow in his footsteps, and gets some training from Obi Wan. It's never said that he's particularly special, he just has special training. It's also shown that a lot of people don't even believe in the force, and Darth Vader is said to be following an archaic religion and is openly mocked for it, the mockery ceasing when he force chokes an officer.

The idea these scenes convey to a lot of people is that Luke isn't special, and that anyone can learn to use the force, but few ever do because they don't have a belief in it and therefore never seek out training.

On the other hand the prequels explain that some people are force sensitive and some aren't, and that this sensitivity is predetermined by the midichlorians in their body. This makes it so that some people are predestined to be jedi and some aren't. A lot of people think that this is a terrible interpretation because it takes the hard work out of being a jedi. Anakin Skywalker isn't a better Jedi than other people because of his hard work, he's a better Jedi because the universe decided that he is. Yoda isn't this great and powerful jedi sage because of hundreds of years of training, it's because he was born with a shitload of midichlorians in his blood. It makes the jedi uninspiring.

Oh, and you may make fun of the choreography from the original trilogy, but at least it didn't have stuff like this in it:

Spoiler

Fight scenes are great when the actors are twirling so much that they forget they're supposed to be attacking each other. Wait...what's the opposite of "great?" Oh right, shit. Yeah, that's what I meant. Total shit.

 

[RealRT]

This came out a while back, but I only discovered it recently:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_joDNOpeWWo

I gotta be honest, the video is really condescending and arrogant, cause it seems to me that the guys who made it assume that THEY know what makes Star Wars Star Wars better than the GUY WHO CREATED STAR WARS. Of course, it takes potshots at the prequels (which at this point is really tiresome) and makes really ridiculous claims.

Star Wars can't have shiny things? The Queen's ship was shiny because she's a QUEEN! She can afford shiny things. Besides, the Empire had shiny things, cause they had money, the Rebels didn't, hence the dirtiness.

Star Wars is about the frontier? Says who? Why can't a Star Wars movie have scenes in a library, or a senate, or some futuristic place? I don't hear anyone complaining about the scenes on Bespin.

Anyways, I'd like to hear from you Star Wars fans out there what you enjoy about Star Wars, and whether you think a Star Wars movie has to follow certain guidelines or rules.

Wow, a Star Wars-related thread in which I agree with OP, that's a rare one.

I'm going to just come out and say it: most Star Wars fans are a bunch of entitled twats. Then again, what do I know, I grew up with the new movies and I enjoy all six episodes, old farts in their fourties who still keep complaining about midichlorians ruining the force probably know better, right? Ugh.

 

[Neverhoodian]

snip

snip

Dang Hipsters, you stole my thunder. Well, I'll try to insert a few points of my own.[footnote]*Insert "there is no try" joke here*[/footnote]

To play devil's advocate for a second, the original trilogy liked to bang on about how the Force is strong in the Skywalker family, indicating that it does show favoritism towards certain bloodlines. What's more, it possibly indicates a biological explanation via genetics. Of course that renders the Jedi Order's "no love" policy of the prequels even more asinine than it already was (see this wonderful gem [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzmrOhQpXeY] for why I have other issues with such a practice).

I came up with my personal headcanon for midichlorians a long time ago that I think would satisfy both parties:

The Jedi had it bass-ackwards. Midichlorians don't create the Force, the Force creates Midichlorians. They're a harmless physical by-product of the Force's influence.

As for lightsaber duels, choreography was never the focus for the original trilogy. There were plenty of other films that had far better choreographed duels by that time (Scaramouche, The Prisoner of Zenda, etc.) It was about the clash of characters rather than blades, the larger metaphysical struggle of good vs. evil. It's why the combatants would often pause to exchange taunts or try to tempt the other into joining their cause.

Episode I proved that you could make choreography the focus of a lightsaber fight and pull it off, provided the moves appear to serve a purpose. Even the most vehement detractors of the film will often grudgingly admit that the duel was pretty awesome. Episodes II and III though...not so much. I just can't get invested in the fights, what with all the superfluous twirling and hopping around.

 

[JayRPG]

I will never fully understand why people hate midichlorians so much... it doesn't take any of the mystery out of the force.

Midichlorians explain 1 thing about the force: How people are able to interact with it (and maybe a few stems from there, like, how some people are force sensitive and others are not)... we still have no idea what the force is, where it comes from, why it's there, who or what discovered it, we know nothing.. nothing; that is pretty damn mysterious to me.

Contrary to what people selectively remember about the original trilogy, people wanted answers, they wanted to know what the force was, how people were force sensitive etc

Midichlorians is one of a host of ways of explaining small snippets that further the story, without ruining any of the mystery; I like knowing the reason why some people are force sensitive and others aren't, it was a big question that needed to be answered, why was Luke force sensitive and able to become a Jedi when so many of the people around him were not? Midichlorians, thank you and good bye. What explanation would people prefer? Luke was chosen by a god to be a Jedi? Luke just is a Jedi because it's a movie and we say so?

I disagreed with some of the video, but I am of the mind that a lot of the prequel trilogy wasn't even bad, and, dare I say, enjoyable.

I fall asleep in the second half of the original trilogy, boring, dull. Lightsaber choreography looks like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0ms24w_GKU.

If the new trilogy is part original, part prequel, it will be good. I have an optimistic outlook and wish people far too nostalgic for their own good would stop trying to ruin it for everybody else.

In the original trilogy it's never explained that some people are force sensitive and some aren't. In the first movie Luke is just some kid on a farm who finds out that his father was a jedi knight and decides he wants to follow in his footsteps, and gets some training from Obi Wan. It's never said that he's particularly special, he just has special training. It's also shown that a lot of people don't even believe in the force, and Darth Vader is said to be following an archaic religion and is openly mocked for it, the mockery ceasing when he force chokes an officer.

The idea these scenes convey to a lot of people is that Luke isn't special, and that anyone can learn to use the force, but few ever do because they don't have a belief in it and therefore never seek out training.

On the other hand the prequels explain that some people are force sensitive and some aren't, and that this sensitivity is predetermined by the midichlorians in their body. This makes it so that some people are predestined to be jedi and some aren't. A lot of people think that this is a terrible interpretation because it takes the hard work out of being a jedi. Anakin Skywalker isn't a better Jedi than other people because of his hard work, he's a better Jedi because the universe decided that he is. Yoda isn't this great and powerful jedi sage because of hundreds of years of training, it's because he was born with a shitload of midichlorians in his blood. It makes the jedi uninspiring.

Oh, and you may make fun of the choreography from the original trilogy, but at least it didn't have stuff like this in it:

Spoiler

Fight scenes are great when the actors are twirling so much that they forget they're supposed to be attacking each other. Wait...what's the opposite of "great?" Oh right, shit. Yeah, that's what I meant. Total shit.

"Han Solo: Kid, I've flown from one side of this galaxy to the other. I've seen a lot of strange stuff, but I've never seen anything to make me believe there's one all-powerful force controlling everything. There's no mystical energy field that controls my destiny."

Han solo doesn't believe in the force, yet, he calls the force a mystical energy field that controls destiny. That's just 1 example of 1 line from 1 movie, it was pretty obvious the force had something to do with "destiny" or "fate" and that not just anyone could do it, after all, if it was all about working hard why didn't anyone who witnessed Darth Vader force choke someone decide they would maybe like to have super powers too?

I always got the sense from the original trilogy that the force was their replacement for a deity, the reveal of midichlorians, to me at least, is a far better alternative (and leaves a lot more mystery) than simply unveiling a deity or god, could they have continued on without ever explaining anything to do with the force? I'm not so sure... as I already said, the original trilogy is about as exciting as drying paint for the later half.

As for the choreography, there may be excessive twirling in some of the prequel duels, but it is certainly preferable to wildly swinging the lightsaber from side to side, or 2 old men standing stationary looking as if 2 geriatrics are lightly tapping their walking canes in mild argument (as opposed to 2 of the most powerful men in the universe in a death match as it was).

Using choreographers from other backgrounds other than fencing worked wonders for the prequel action scenes, give me Darth Mauls 5 minute sequence over all the duels in the original trilogy.

 

[immortalfrieza]

The Jedi had it bass-ackwards. Midichlorians don't create the Force, the Force creates Midichlorians. They're a harmless physical by-product of the Force's influence.

In addition to what WhatIsLove said, that's another thing that's odd about fan perception of Midichlorians. Your personal headcanon is flawed from the outset because it's based on the premise that the Jedi were wrong about the Midichlorians creating The Force, but there's absolutely NOTHING in the only time the Midichlorians are really mentioned that give any indication the Jedi EVER thought that, or that the Midichlorians were a byproduct of The Force as you claim. The only thing that is mentioned about Midichlorians is:
1. They are essential for life.
2. Midichlorians are why people can assess or even be aware of The Force's existence.
3. A higher amount of Midichlorians equals greater raw Force talent.

That's it. Everything else about Midichlorians that fans whine about is outright made up. The existence of the Midichlorians and The Force are completely independent of each other. Their only purpose is to provide a biological component to explain why people can use it and why some are better at it than others, it doesn't take any mystery out of The Force itself.


If fans are going to whine and whine incessantly about Midichlorians at least they could do so about things that are ACTUALLY TRUE instead of making crap up to complain about.

Han solo doesn't believe in the force, yet, he calls the force a mystical energy field that controls destiny. That's just 1 example of 1 line from 1 movie, it was pretty obvious the force had something to do with "destiny" or "fate" and that not just anyone could do it, after all, if it was all about working hard why didn't anyone who witnessed Darth Vader force choke someone decide they would maybe like to have super powers too?

Very true. Midichlorians help explain not only why not everybody and his mother can do crazy stunts while waving a lightsaber, but why people that can use it are important. If everybody could use The Force then just about everybody would be using it on some level. In particular military and police forces throughout the Star Wars universe would be scrambling to trying to definitively nail down the properties of The Force and then exploit it in much the same way they do with various chemicals in real life. Midichlorians not only help preserve the mystery of The Force itself but make sure not every Tom Dick and Harry can be a superhero in the Star Wars universe. Expecting otherwise would be like expecting everybody in comics to be superheroes which defeats the entire purpose of the term.

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

I will never fully understand why people hate midichlorians so much... it doesn't take any of the mystery out of the force.

Midichlorians explain 1 thing about the force: How people are able to interact with it (and maybe a few stems from there, like, how some people are force sensitive and others are not)... we still have no idea what the force is, where it comes from, why it's there, who or what discovered it, we know nothing.. nothing; that is pretty damn mysterious to me.

Contrary to what people selectively remember about the original trilogy, people wanted answers, they wanted to know what the force was, how people were force sensitive etc

Midichlorians is one of a host of ways of explaining small snippets that further the story, without ruining any of the mystery; I like knowing the reason why some people are force sensitive and others aren't, it was a big question that needed to be answered, why was Luke force sensitive and able to become a Jedi when so many of the people around him were not? Midichlorians, thank you and good bye. What explanation would people prefer? Luke was chosen by a god to be a Jedi? Luke just is a Jedi because it's a movie and we say so?

I disagreed with some of the video, but I am of the mind that a lot of the prequel trilogy wasn't even bad, and, dare I say, enjoyable.

I fall asleep in the second half of the original trilogy, boring, dull. Lightsaber choreography looks like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0ms24w_GKU.

If the new trilogy is part original, part prequel, it will be good. I have an optimistic outlook and wish people far too nostalgic for their own good would stop trying to ruin it for everybody else.

In the original trilogy it's never explained that some people are force sensitive and some aren't. In the first movie Luke is just some kid on a farm who finds out that his father was a jedi knight and decides he wants to follow in his footsteps, and gets some training from Obi Wan. It's never said that he's particularly special, he just has special training. It's also shown that a lot of people don't even believe in the force, and Darth Vader is said to be following an archaic religion and is openly mocked for it, the mockery ceasing when he force chokes an officer.

The idea these scenes convey to a lot of people is that Luke isn't special, and that anyone can learn to use the force, but few ever do because they don't have a belief in it and therefore never seek out training.

On the other hand the prequels explain that some people are force sensitive and some aren't, and that this sensitivity is predetermined by the midichlorians in their body. This makes it so that some people are predestined to be jedi and some aren't. A lot of people think that this is a terrible interpretation because it takes the hard work out of being a jedi. Anakin Skywalker isn't a better Jedi than other people because of his hard work, he's a better Jedi because the universe decided that he is. Yoda isn't this great and powerful jedi sage because of hundreds of years of training, it's because he was born with a shitload of midichlorians in his blood. It makes the jedi uninspiring.

Oh, and you may make fun of the choreography from the original trilogy, but at least it didn't have stuff like this in it:

Spoiler

Fight scenes are great when the actors are twirling so much that they forget they're supposed to be attacking each other. Wait...what's the opposite of "great?" Oh right, shit. Yeah, that's what I meant. Total shit.

"Han Solo: Kid, I've flown from one side of this galaxy to the other. I've seen a lot of strange stuff, but I've never seen anything to make me believe there's one all-powerful force controlling everything. There's no mystical energy field that controls my destiny."

Han solo doesn't believe in the force, yet, he calls the force a mystical energy field that controls destiny. That's just 1 example of 1 line from 1 movie, it was pretty obvious the force had something to do with "destiny" or "fate" and that not just anyone could do it, after all, if it was all about working hard why didn't anyone who witnessed Darth Vader force choke someone decide they would maybe like to have super powers too?

Maybe they did decide that they'd like superpowers too, but who is going to teach them? The jedi are dead, and are the Emperor or Darth Vader going to take time out of their days to teach their underlings how to lift shit with their mind? Of course not.

In the original movies the exclusivity of the force was just based on the fact that there were so few teachers of it rather than a lack of people who may have had a willingness to learn if given a chance.

 

[Erttheking]

I'm reminded of something I read. If you say a work is about something, most likely you'll be right. If you say a work is JUST about that something, most likely you'll be wrong.

 

[laggyteabag]

Star Wars can't have shiny things? The Queen's ship was shiny because she's a QUEEN! She can afford shiny things. Besides, the Empire had shiny things, cause they had money, the Rebels didn't, hence the dirtiness.

I think that this was just a bad choice on the animators part, but there were an overabundance of shiny things in the prequels, especially the Naboo Starfighters and the battledroids. I cannot imagine seeing that many shiny things in a universe where the empire exists, though.

Star Wars is about the frontier? Says who? Why can't a Star Wars movie have scenes in a library, or a senate, or some futuristic place? I don't hear anyone complaining about the scenes on Bespin.

You're right. We can have Star Wars movies set in the senate and in the library, but you know what were the boring parts of the prequels? The parts set in the senate and the library. Sure, if if can be done correctly, it could be interesting, but I don't want to sit through entire sections based around space politics. I want an adventure, not barebones political intrigue that only serves as a giant exposition dump.

 

[Piorn]

I'd agree with the list, but at the same time they're just ranting about the syndromes of the prequel's badness, not the reason.
The movies could break all these rules and still be great Star Wars movies, or obey all these rules and suck.
People don't really know what they want, until they get it. People want more "good" Star Wars movies, so naturally they ask for more of the good parts, but just assembling parts doesn't equal a good movie.

I just hope Ep7 will be a good movie, I really don't care about the details.

 

[daibakuha]

Can I just say I'm getting sick and tired of Tatooine at this point? It makes the setting feel really small when we're always visiting the same handful of planets every single time.

Rumors from a few reliable sources state that the desert planet in the trailer is not, in fact, Tatooine.

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

Can I just say I'm getting sick and tired of Tatooine at this point? It makes the setting feel really small when we're always visiting the same handful of planets every single time.

Rumors from a few reliable sources state that the desert planet in the trailer is not, in fact, Tatooine.

Either way it's a desert planet and I think we've all had enough of those.

Seriously, like 1/2 of episode one takes place on tatooine, the last 1/3 of episode 2 takes place on a desert planet, episode 3 has tatooine again (though thankfully briefly), episode 4 starts on tatooine again, and episode 6 comes right the fuck back to tatooine to rescue Han Solo.

I'm starting to think that Empire Strikes Back is the best Star Wars movie specifically because it doesn't involve a desert planet in any way.

 

[daibakuha]

Either way it's a desert planet and I think we've all had enough of those.

Seriously, like 1/2 of episode one takes place on tatooine, the last 1/3 of episode 2 takes place on a desert planet, episode 3 has tatooine again (though thankfully briefly), episode 4 starts on tatooine again, and episode 6 comes right the fuck back to tatooine to rescue Han Solo.

I'm starting to think that Empire Strikes Back is the best Star Wars movie specifically because it doesn't involve a desert planet in any way.

If it's the planet I think it's going to be, it will definitely be more distinguished from Tatooine.

 

[Neverhoodian]

Can I just say I'm getting sick and tired of Tatooine at this point? It makes the setting feel really small when we're always visiting the same handful of planets every single time.

Rumors from a few reliable sources state that the desert planet in the trailer is not, in fact, Tatooine.

Either way it's a desert planet and I think we've all had enough of those.

Seriously, like 1/2 of episode one takes place on tatooine, the last 1/3 of episode 2 takes place on a desert planet, episode 3 has tatooine again (though thankfully briefly), episode 4 starts on tatooine again, and episode 6 comes right the fuck back to tatooine to rescue Han Solo.

I'm starting to think that Empire Strikes Back is the best Star Wars movie specifically because it doesn't involve a desert planet in any way.

Exactly. I just want to get away from all the sand.

Sand dunes are about the most boring biome I can think of for a planet. I don't care much for Episode III, but at least it boasted a wide range of interesting locales, even if most of them were only on-screen very briefly. From exotic jungles and snowy ruins to massive sinkholes and lava worlds, the locations were often visually stimulating and tickled my sense of exploration and adventure.

 

[J Tyran]

If it's the planet I think it's going to be, it will definitely be more distinguished from Tatooine.

They better pull something good then, about the only thing that might make the "Totally not Tatooine" desert planet interesting is if they fall through a wormhole and end up on Arrakis and team up with Muad'dib to stop the Sith from seizing spice and creating a super prescient Jedi or something.

 

[Travis Fischer]

Star Wars should be absent shaky cam and lens flare, so whatever JJ Abrams is making isn't Star Wars.

 

[daibakuha]

If it's the planet I think it's going to be, it will definitely be more distinguished from Tatooine.

They better pull something good then, about the only thing that might make the "Totally not Tatooine" desert planet interesting is if they fall through a wormhole and end up on Arrakis and team up with Muad'dib to stop the Sith from seizing spice and creating a super prescient Jedi or something.

Rumor has it that the planet they are on is Korriban.

 

[J Tyran]

If it's the planet I think it's going to be, it will definitely be more distinguished from Tatooine.

They better pull something good then, about the only thing that might make the "Totally not Tatooine" desert planet interesting is if they fall through a wormhole and end up on Arrakis and team up with Muad'dib to stop the Sith from seizing spice and creating a super prescient Jedi or something.

Rumor has it that the planet they are on is Korriban.

That actually would be pretty cool, no denying that.

 

[SonOfVoorhees]

Worse things about the prequels was how much they nodded and winked to the original trilogy also the terrible over use of cgi. Now that they are making movies that are set after the original series i hope they take the opportunity to tell new stories with new characters etc and not continually stick to the original. They have the whole Star Wars universe to mess around in. Then again this is the same director that had the same freedom with the Star Trek universe and rehashed Khan for his second movie.

 

[Olas]

Rule 1: The Setting is the Frontier

The original movies had a genuine reason to be set away from civilization. The good guys were rebels who had to keep a distance between themselves and the empire. It was also probably easier and cheaper to film a simple environment than try to create a whole densely populated alien city. Neither of these factors are essential to the Star Wars series, they're just circumstances of the original trilogies story and production.

Rule 2: The Future is Old

Well, obviously Star Wars isn't set in the "future" but I get what they're saying. I also disagree with it. Seen below, a shot from the opening scene of the first Star Wars movie.

It looks pretty clean, I would say even sterile, and definitely futuristic, in admittedly a somewhat retro-futuristic sense. There's other examples of this throughout the series. The cloud city of Bespin is definitely polished looking, as is most of the Empire's technology, if a little more angular to look intimidating.

The original series isn't all ugly and war torn. A lot of it is, but that's because of the aforementioned fact that it's set on the frontier. However, it's often good to contrast aesthetics when trying to distinguish separate environments and worlds. The old dilapidated nature of the rebels is meant to contrast the clean modern looking imperials. To try and make everything look equally one or the other would be a mistake.

The clean look of the prequel trilogy works somewhat because it's supposed to take place in a more civilized, prosperous time and place. But I'd also say it's a symptom of using low quality CGI instead of real environments, thus the world lacks imperfection and realism. However, that's a tech issue, not an aesthetic one. The technology definitely exists today to create grimy, gritty, realistic things with CGI, especially with the help of motion capture.

Rule 3: The Force is Mysterious

Last time I checked, midi-chlorians are only mentioned in The Phantom Menace a few times. Even George Lucas figured out pretty quickly that he shouldn't mention them anymore. Personally, I don't think there's anything too terribly wrong with having a little bit of science in your space magic, especially in a sci-fi oriented universe. But the message that people don't want a biological explanation for the force has been read loud and clear.

I do dislike the concept of midi-chlorians, not for the usual reason that it takes away the "mysticism" but for the same reason I dislike power levels in Dragon Ball Z. Having a simple, easy, quantifiable measure of power takes a lot of the fun out of combat. The bad guy is supposed to be generally stronger, but lose anyway to the little guy, which only works in a complex, uncertain world where victory is about more than who has the higher number.

Rule 4: Star Wars Isn't Cute

Wasn't R2D2 revered back in the day because of how cute he was? He has a stubby little body, makes little boops and beeps, and has a determination that goes way beyond his designed purpose. He may not be conventionally cute by our modern anime standards of having big eyes and small everything else, but he has a charm that certainly defies this rule. The problem with the prequel trilogy wasn't that the characters were too cute, it was that they were juvenile.