What is the apeal of MMOs...?

[boradis]

MMOs are time sinks. I like games to have a story and an essential part of a story is immersion, willing suspension of disbelief. I played WoW for two years before giving up on it when, at the end of the introductory zone for a race I was trying out "I" was hailed by the local village as the Savior foretold in legends. It was a pretty cool moment -- or at least it was the previous evening when my wife received the exact same accolades. It made me realize that every player of that race in the game "the savior," and the loss of immersion made me too cynical to play.

Every quest, every dungeon, every "adventure" your character / "you" embark upon had been or will be done by hundreds of thousands of strangers. Granted, this is true in a one-player RPG as well, but the immersion isn't broken because at least in that world you really are The One. In an MMO the other players will talk about it and run their lower-level friends through it, and do speed runs through dungeons and quest chains for more gear or achievements.

At that point it's not a story any more. There wasn't a section of "Lord of the Rings" in which Frodo and Sam went back to the Shire and said, "Ok this time let's do it without Gollum so we can get the achievement."

It's odd, but as more actual humans get involved these imaginary worlds seem less real.

 

[boradis]

Yes, WoW is a horrible yardmarker for what is enjoyable about MMOs. Part of the reason is because WoWs core demographic is geared more to the shooter mentality than it is the RPG mentalist. (you know, bragging rights, competition, having to rely on other people and the inability to do anything on your own or working together as a team to accomplish what one person could never hope to do on their own, which ever you want to call it.)

Yes, exactly, and those are the reasons I don't touch FPS games. Well, that and the fact that they're all the freakin' same. You're a gun. You point yourself at things until they die. L4D has at least a fun premise, but beyond that ... yawn.

But yeah, the fact that there's no way to enjoy WoW on your own was another big reason I left. I'm not joiner, I don't like being part of a pack of guys where everything is decided by the senior members. My main character was a rogue and it took a while but it slowly started to dawn on me that in WoW there is no way to be a "rogue" in the literal definition of the word.

 

[Thaluikhain]

You aren't contending with mere AI opponents, your enemies are living creatures of comparable intelligence, conspiring to do away with you.

Alternatively, it's like a forum, but you can try blowing the other posters up.

 

[Bostur]

The original appeal has been lost a bit in some of the old MMOs. Although Rift seems to bring some of it back, and some games simply keep doing what they always did.

For me the appeal is a huge explorable world with other people in it. It causes some kind of immediate emergent experience in a genre that is otherwise a bit too shallow and simple for a computer game.

All MMOs have stories that are less linear and slower paced than single player games. You could compare a single player game to a movie lasting 2 hours, and in turn an MMO as one season of a TV-Series.

These days MMOs are very suitable for single players. Some simply like to play alone, but in the company of others. Some people like to play alone, but also to group up occasionally. And some only play for group activities. For others its simply a chat room with pretty colors and something to do while waiting for friends to log on.
The variety of expectations is part of the concept. Everyone enjoys different aspects. That is why MMOs need to be wider, and not quite as deep.

Players also need to create their own game experience to some extent. There is a bit of a divide between "Theme park" MMOs and "Sandbox" MMOs. The theme parks provide some set goals for the players, the sandboxes only provide the world and the setting and let players define their goals.
Eve Online is an example of a sandbox. Lord of the Rings Online and World of Warcraft are themeparks. All MMOs have elements of both styles though.

What is gained/lost from a typical JRPG/western party based RPG when compared to an MMO?

You gain a social context to play in. You also have to share the game, not everything may happen in the same way you imagined it at first.
You lose some structured story telling, but gain another form of storytelling that is more freeform. In MMOs the story more often revolves around the common folk than the famous ones.

Why is Bioware taking what was my favorite game of the last gen and making it mmo

Because they want to take last years hot thing and try to redo it. At least thats my theory. Many of the old MMOs have grown old and stale, and I think a lot of people have grown a bit tired of the genre. MMOs need a small revolution to keep going. It's possible that Bioware believes they can do just that. But we wont know until they release it.

Are there still single player campaigns on MMOs?

Most MMOs have quests or missions similar to those in single player RPGs. But they are not part of specific campaigns, the MMO itself is the campaign setting. Some quests may be intended for single player, some may be intended for group play. Most MMOs can be played as single player most of the time.

do the story's ever end or are you just constantly looking around for bigger numbers as Yahtzee would say?

The story never ends. And yes if you want to look at it mathematically its just about looking for bigger numbers. But those bigger numbers can represent goals and ideals for your character or yourself. The overall goal really is to have fun playing in a big world. Substories start and end constantly, either ones you make yourself, or stories made by the game..

 

[uc.asc]

Eve evangelist here. The sane may stop reading now; it's not anything like the sort of RPG the OP lists anyway.

Eve has pretty much ruined other MMOs for me. Without some element of actual risk or conflict, I no longer derive any sense of reward from the skinner box method; it just feels like grinding so that I can do more grinding. The last minute or so of yahtzee's cataclysm review describes the entire experience for me.

When you get right down to it, multiplayer PVE (or minimal-risk pvp) can't compare to winning a fight against human opponents in which your livelihood is at stake. Eve is a persistent world game, a miniature simulated universe where everything effects everything else and the story lies in player-driven conflicts.

You killed the lich king? Well I fought in the three day siege of h-w, during which the southern coalition was broken forever. No NPC fight can hold a candle to taking part in the epic denouement of a real conflict between tens of thousands of players.

 

[Wondermint13]

An MMO is a place to hang out and kill monsters.

Pretty much this.

Chat, *****, flirt, wander around. All the stuff humanity likes to do but with an MMO you also get to kill stuff!! (which humanity shouldnt like to do but in a game I guess its ok) Ah you'll get the point!

 

[Master10K]

If you're looking for an MMO that brings some of the best aspects for single player RPGs and puts them in an MMO setting then you'll be struggling to find one, amongst the cesspit of all the MMOs out there, that are just about the endgame and not much else. Most popular MMOs seem to revolve around a gear treadmill, where you do quests/dungeons/raids for better gear, which allow you to do more quests/dungeons/raids for even better gear.

So if you want that awesome story-driven journey in an MMO setting then I suggest you wait for Star Wars: The Old Republic or the dark-horse of the MMO industry Guild Wars 2. Since both feature a number of different storylines you can follow (either race or class), where decisions actually matter and put it into persistent world. However both game will be largely different in their overall design. Star Wars: TOR is all about bringing the story of the star wars universe and not much else. So apart from how it handles quest [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2I0imBz6y38], the game is not much different from traditional MMOs.

I'm personally more excited for the upcoming Guild Wars 2 [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5wBIPF8bGA] because it's perfect for someone like me who's new to MMOs, since a lot of the things that kept me away from the genre won't be present. There's no compulsory grind, no restrictions on group play, no griefing (not even node stealing), no boring static quests, no boring static combat and of course... no monthly fees. Very few MMOs are trying to innovate the way Arenanet is doing it with Guild Wars 2 and that's why it's a game I suggest you or anyone (annoyed with the standard MMO) to buy or at least consider buying when it comes out. Oh and did I mention there's no monthly fee.

 

[Bostur]

Eve evangelist here. The sane may stop reading now; it's not anything like the sort of RPG the OP lists anyway.

Eve has pretty much ruined other MMOs for me. Without some element of actual risk or conflict, I no longer derive any sense of reward from the skinner box method; it just feels like grinding so that I can do more grinding. The last minute or so of yahtzee's cataclysm review describes the entire experience for me.

When you get right down to it, multiplayer PVE (or minimal-risk pvp) can't compare to winning a fight against human opponents in which your livelihood is at stake. Eve is a persistent world game, a miniature simulated universe where everything effects everything else and the story lies in player-driven conflicts.

You killed the lich king? Well I fought in the three day siege of h-w, during which the southern coalition was broken forever. No NPC fight can hold a candle to taking part in the epic denouement of a real conflict between tens of thousands of players.

EvE is evil I tell you.

I do find it a bit scary how immersive it can be. I've been in multiple day sieges as well. Not the scale of the big null-sec wars but probably just as personal and high-staked. Setting my alarm clock to synch with reinforcement timers, I couldn't help to think that maybe games can get a bit too immersive and realistic.

In 20 years when WoW and EQ are all but forgotten, I wouldn't be surprised if EvE is still running.

 

[Indecipherable]

Griefing, collecting pets, making other people on the internet jealous of your pimped out pixels.

I approve.

 

[Traun]

If you do plan to get youself a PC for RPG's and if you don't mind old games I recommend that you try Wizardry 7 or Ultima 4. These two series created the RPG genre and, graphicss aside(which are pretty good for a 2D tbh), are still extremely enjoyable even today,

Anyway - http://www.oldgames.sk/en/game/wizardry-7-crusaders-of-the-dark-savant/ you can download Wizardry 7 from here(read the manual). And Ultima has a flash version.

As for the MMOs - do you have friends? These games are design to be played with people you know, if you have none, or no one wants to play them, ignore. Other than that there is a good reason to get a PC for rpgs.

 

[Juk3n]

MMORPG's are escapism, gaming is a hobby, but mmos are a chance to be absorbed into another world, but stay social at the same time. It's a world to explore and adventures to be had to an RP'er like me.

 

[n03s]

Obviously the appeal of MMOs is big/huge areas to explore and the massive numbers of online users..
Well as for character story they fall short..

Its about what you want..
If you want an epic character background/story stick to single player RPGs(Like BG series or FF series), If you want to grind and play with other people MMORPGs is the way to go..

 

[RyQ_TMC]

For me, the appeal comes from two things:

1) A large world to explore. Many areas with their own sights and lore, stories behind characters and quests (yes, I read the flavor text), crafting, all this little stuff.

2) An opportunity to spend time with my friends. Just for the record, I mean real-life friends, but since I lead a mobile lifestyle, I don't get to spend much time with them in the RL. So we fire up Skype and our MMO of choice and have fun questing together.

What I don't like in MMOs is the end-game content, when you're just accumulating better equiment for the sake of increasing numbers. Also, the strong belief of many players that you have to do your homework researching builds and optimal skill chains if you don't want to get badmouthed in-game.

 

[DEAD34345]

I generally consider MMOs as sub-par RPGs that trades away lots of what makes an RPG good, in order to have the bonus of being able to play with your friends/random internet people. I own one MMO, Guildwars, because there is no monthly subscription. I play it every now and again with my friend who also bought it, at the same time. I have tried a lot of MMOs, and i can pretty fairly say that if you're not into PVP, then chances are all you will be doing is grinding to increase your numbers. This isn't too bad if you enjoy playing it with friends, but single-player... no.

Why is Bioware taking what was my favorite game of the last gen and making it mmo.

The Old Republic on the other hand, looks incredible. It is the only MMO i have ever looked forward to, and it will be the first game (Probably last game, too) that i will pay a monthly subscription for, ever. It looks really, really good from an RPG standpoint as well as from a MMO standpoint. I hope i won't be greatly disappointed when it comes out, but for the moment it actually seems like KOTOR, except multiplayer. That combination reaches new levels of epic.