What is the appeal of cowboys?

[Silentpony_v1legacy]

The hats...and probably something about masculinity and 'living off the land' and a whole lot of nonsense no one actually believes. I think its the same appeal as pirates, space marines, slender Elf hotties and orcs vs humans. Writers are just talent-less hacks who tell us what they think we think we want to see, and that's it.

 

[Satinavian]

I agree with the above.

It is mostly an American thing because it is American history.


Look at (tabletop) RPG. Most of them are fantasy. But a surprisingly large number are western. But not a single one of those western RPGs is actually somewhat popular outside the USA, The rest of the world just doesn't find it that interesting as a setting.

And is anyone surprised that there is also a quite impressive if smaller number of RPGs with the Victorian Age as setting, most of them coming from England ?

Sure, some Western movies were worldwide successes. But not necessarily because they were Western, setting is only one of many things that might make a movie successfull.

Even Western literature, well. There are several worldwide successfull novels of the American west. But most of them tend to be more about the natives than cowboys and such. Combining the clichee of the noble savage with the allure of the exotic, where the European descent Americans are just boring white people.

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

Westerns are awesome. If you disagree it's because you're not awesome and you will never be. It's the true truth.

What if you factor in the fact that if I was placed in those times, I would be less than human, given no rights, and no real way to get Justice, no matter what Django Unchained would have anyone to believe?

Still not awesome?

So then every time period is terrible and no media should ever be enjoyed of any of those time periods right? After all, people have been constantly oppressed throughout all of human history.

 

[Adam Jensen_v1legacy]

Westerns are awesome. If you disagree it's because you're not awesome and you will never be. It's the true truth.

What if you factor in the fact that if I was placed in those times, I would be less than human, given no rights, and no real way to get Justice, no matter what Django Unchained would have anyone to believe?

Still not awesome?

Like most people you fail to understand one crucial thing about westerns. A western is in some ways a fantasy setting. I'd say that there's a sub-genre of low fantasy that doesn't rely on magic and mythological creatures, but instead it relies on romanticizing reality to absurd degrees. That's what westerns do. You shouldn't take them seriously.

 

[MrCalavera_v1legacy]

Westerns romanticized them. And RDR is the only AAA game that does western right, afaik. Plus, it's R*.

 

[Marik2]

Wild west thread.

 

[Specter Von Baren]

Cowboys hit a part of the American cultural consciousness like knights do in Europe or samurai and ninja do in Japan.

 

[09philj]

They're versatile enough as a narrative device that they can inspire an array of filmmakers as talented and diverse as John Ford, Howard Hawkes, Sam Peckinpah, Sergio Leone, Alejandro Jodorowsky, John Carpenter, Quentin Tarantino and the Coens. Cormac McCarthy's written his best novels as Westerns. What's not to like?

Also a lot of good things that aren't Westerns that are actually Westerns, like some of Cormac McCarthy and the Cohen's other work, Taylor Sheridan's Wind River and Hell or High Water, Mystery Road, Cowboy Bebop, and Trigun.

 

[Smithnikov_v1legacy]

>>Very rarely are "cowboy" movies and games actually about cowboys. They're usually about bounty hunters, law men, gamblers, gunfighters, treasure hunters, bandits, etc. They're almost never about actual cattle farmers.

This.

Me specifically, I like the Spaghetti Western sub-genre, and RDR takes quite a lot from it.

True. Those westerns in particular are very, very grey in their morality, especially since very few of the protagonists can be considered heros by any stretch. The Good, the Bad and the Ugly especially is notable for being less about good guys and bad guys and more about three gunslingers willing to do pretty much anything to get a ton of missing cash, and occasionally stuck in the middle of a morally dubious war(The American Civil War).

RDR and apparently 2 also draw a lot from The Wild Bunch if you've seen that one.

 

[Kyrian007]

"Cowboy Western" had its day. It still has its fans. And some day there will be a popular resurgence. But right now we're in the middle of seeing it through clearer historical lenses. In actuality it was mostly more boring than the folklore it popularized, and the "exciting" bits often had properly barbaric and distasteful underpinnings (by today's standards.) Even Tombstone's opening narration only sounds bombastic... until you look at it. "With murder rates higher than those of modern-day New York or Los Angeles." When you think about that, population differences being what they are... that means not very many murders at all actually. Too many to be sure... but in total, not very many. I live in a town where Billy the Kid's mother signed the town charter and our police force actually employed Wyatt Earp himself. Yet in the entire 19th century my state only had 20-30 law enforcement officers die in the line of duty (the number varies depending on a number of factors including as an example how you look at the "police" status of someone deputized as part of a "posse.") Because of where I live, I have a fascination with the Wild West as a setting. But I think without that sense of local interest... it probably only has niche appeal really. The occasional game (like RDR) and movie (like the sporadic Westerns we get nowadays) are enough to scratch the itch demanded by the few of us that enjoy Westerns, and not bore everyone else with genre over-saturation.

 

[crypticracer]

I too am all about the spaghetti western. (Other than the lack of female leads. Seriously like 2, across hundreds of films.)

Spaghetti Westerns take place in a hyper west. As unrealistic as arthurian legends are to medieval times. The real west wasn't that wild. It was boring, and rough. Filled less with legendary bandits, and more banal evil, like industrealists and the govment.

I would actually prefer the Red Dead games to be more Spaghetti western, but they seem intent on doing post revisionist westerns, which hey, it seems they do well.

I also want more fantastic westerns, weird westerns, stuff like The Dark Tower.

 

[PapaGreg096]

A bit off topic but I want a Western game in the similar vein of East and West

 

[Trunkage]

The hats...and probably something about masculinity and 'living off the land' and a whole lot of nonsense no one actually believes. I think its the same appeal as pirates, space marines, slender Elf hotties and orcs vs humans. Writers are just talent-less hacks who tell us what they think we think we want to see, and that's it.

You know that they never wore the hats you see in the movies. They wore fedora-esque hat. That a Hollywood invention. Just as it being a violent place. Most towns banned all guns to reduce violence. There were also hardly any bank robberies.

We like the Western created by Hollywood. In actual fact, it was more like Brokeback mountain. Although with more rape

 

[crypticracer]

The hats...and probably something about masculinity and 'living off the land' and a whole lot of nonsense no one actually believes. I think its the same appeal as pirates, space marines, slender Elf hotties and orcs vs humans. Writers are just talent-less hacks who tell us what they think we think we want to see, and that's it.

You know that they never wore the hats you see in the movies. They wore fedora-esque hat. That a Hollywood invention. Just as it being a violent place. Most towns banned all guns to reduce violence. There were also hardly any bank robberies.

We like the Western created by Hollywood. In actual fact, it was more like Brokeback mountain. Although with more rape

And more guns. People can freely carry weapons more now than then.

 

[Bobular]

Westerns are awesome. If you disagree it's because you're not awesome and you will never be. It's the true truth.

What if you factor in the fact that if I was placed in those times, I would be less than human, given no rights, and no real way to get Justice, no matter what Django Unchained would have anyone to believe?

Still not awesome?

Like most people you fail to understand one crucial thing about westerns. A western is in some ways a fantasy setting. I'd say that there's a sub-genre of low fantasy that doesn't rely on magic and mythological creatures, but instead it relies on romanticizing reality to absurd degrees. That's what westerns do. You shouldn't take them seriously.

I?ve been meaning to watch Deadwood. I?ve heard it comes pretty close to an authentic depiction of the West back then.