What is the best turn-based combat system you have seen in a game?

[KazeAizen]

To me personally unless it is a CCG game now the turn based combat system hasn't really aged well. At least for some games like the older Final Fantasies. However I'd be remiss to not say which game I think had the best. Unless it was on page 2 no one mentioned Pokemon. Think about it. It combines collectible creatures with different attributes with Rock, Paper, Scissors. I consistenly call Pokemon "The greatest game of rock, paper, scissors ever." I think because of this, how easy it is for children to get into (don't lie. Most of you like me started when you were about 7-10 years old), and the added depth of the EV points makes it hold up better than most. The EV training is for the guys who I personally think take the game way too seriously but its there for them to do while the traditional leveling and rock, paper, scissors stuff remains for everyone else. So yeah to me Pokemon has the best. I also think its a game series that is a true testament to formula with how strong its still going and how long it has been around.

Also I was actually surprised, pleasantly so, that the OP thought that FF XIII had the best turn based combat system. The reason being is because, like the Star Wars prequels, I can find nothing but bile and scorn and related to it. Though I will have to agree with the other posters. It is Active Time Battle system. Though I do think its a good system and a good way to progress something like VII's or VI's outdated turn based system.

 

[remnant_phoenix]

Final Fantasy X has a very interesting way of doing it, it has a bar on the screen to tell you when a characters turn is next and how your next action affects the bar, as well as being fast and you being able to switch out characters on the fly, its a compelling and fun combat system. Each character, mainly for the majority of the story, have various strengths and weaknesses, such as Wakka being able to hit flying types, Tidus with fast types, the usual, it makes you use the other characters, so no character feels useless.

As soon as I saw this thread, Final Fantasy X was the first thing that came to mind. No game I've played comes close in terms of making turn-based combat feel strategic and challenging. Granted, I haven't played any of the Grandia, Persona, or many of the other games that are named in this thread (Persona 3/4 are on my backlog, I swear), so I don't have those to compare it to.

My second mention would be Chrono Trigger. While not strictly turn-based, because it uses Square's Active Time Battle (ATB) mechanic, I appreciate it because all the characters are useful and just about all the spells/abilities you learn are useful as well. Also, the battles happen very fast and the boss battles demand good strategy and exploiting your party's strengths. Also, Double/Triple Tech team-up attacks rule.

EDIT: Additional mentions go out to Legend of Dragoon, Lost Odyessey, Paper Mario, and any other games that incorporate a timed-button-press element to boost attack damage during combat. Some people hate this, but for me it goes a long way to making turn-based combat more engaging, especially in the non-boss battles which tend to demand less overall strategy.

 

[remnant_phoenix]

Final Fantasy X is the epitome of a perfect turn based battle system. The level of strategy in the fights, from understanding the enemies patterns (particularly bosses), knowing the order of turns and working out how to affect it, allowing you to swap characters in and out which allows for a complete change of tactics mid battle were brilliant ideas of the time and they still hold up today.

The only game that would compare to it would be Lord of the Rings: Battle for Middle Earth and that just so happens to be a complete rip off of the Final Fantasy X battle system and is what made that game so much fun. I mean, Lord of the Rings and Final Fantasy X's battle system? That's a combination that's bound to be amazing.

I agree. Final Fantasy X's battle system rules.

And I think you may be thinking of Lord of the Rings: the Third Age? Battle for Middle-Earth was a top-down strategy game, I believe.

 

[immortalfrieza]

The Megami Tensei games and its many spinoffs also built their reputation at least in part due to the creation of the Press Turn system, which can really mess you up sometimes but rewards exploiting both elemental and status weaknesses as well as making diverse sets of resistances very important.

I have two minds about this. For one, I like the intensity the press turn system provides and how it allows the player to be able to kick the asses of even bosses without them being able to fight back. On the another hand I hate how punishing the system tends to be for the tiniest mistake and thus turn what would otherwise be a landfall victory into a crushing defeat, which means that one either needs a guide to know enemy's weaknesses and strengths ahead of time or having to spend hours dying over and over again trial and erroring the way through. It's also tends to throw in some rather cheap one hit kills at random.

 

[ScrabbitRabbit]

I played through Grandia again 2 years ago on my PSP, while I absolutely loved it and its battle system when it first came out, my second play through... I found it kind of broken. Still loved the game, but the problem was in the skill growth system, which relied on using MP to increase your abilities which gave you new techniques and made your characters stronger. It's fine if you do typical MP conversion saving it for tough fights and boss battles... but the game is extremely liberal with it's placements of save/restore points. Made it very easy to abuse, and obsessive compulsions made me want to keep going for that next skill/combo, but it got to the point where I was annihilating every random battle on the first turn, completely nullifying the great combat system!

I'm still on the first disc, so I haven't learned how to break the system yet. I have Grandia 2 on the Dreamcast, too, do you know if it fixed some of those more broken aspects?

But anyways, another obscure pick as my #1 choice... Warsong 1 and 2 for the Sega Genesis. Seriously has anyone else tried this? It's a strategy RPG, has hero characters similar to a Fire Emblem game, except at the start of each battle you spend money to hire up to 'soldier' units, such as infantry, archers, knights, mages, and a whole bunch of others, plus when you 'promote' the hero they could mix & match. Hero's heal their merc units when next to them, up to 4 at a time, and it used a strength system similar to Advance Wars where units start at unit count/strength of 10 and combat each other in a rock/paper/scissor manner. It made for some really great strategy, enough that I'm putting it ahead of Dragon Force.

That sounds pretty interesting, I may have to shop around for it.

I have two minds about this. For one, I like the intensity the press turn system provides and how it allows the player to be able to kick the asses of even bosses without them being able to fight back. On the another hand I hate how punishing the system tends to be for the tiniest mistake and thus turn what would otherwise be a landfall victory into a crushing defeat, which means that one either needs a guide to know enemy's weaknesses and strengths ahead of time or having to spend hours dying over and over again trial and erroring the way through. It's also tends to throw in some rather cheap one hit kills at random.

In my experience (which obviously won't be shared by everyone) it's never really been that extreme. I think I died a total of 8 times in the entirety of Nocturne and all of them were down to a multitude of mistakes and came at the end of battles I was already losing. I've found that the game is pretty good about letting you get used to what the enemies in that area are like without just murdering you outright, you just need to be careful. If you have your baseline team cover a decent set of resistances, you'll be fine no matter where you go, and can swap to a more specialised team once you know what you'll be up against. Digital Devil Saga is a bit worse about it, because you can't just fuse new demons as you need them, but there are still ways to cover up weaknesses and buffs/debuffs are still way more useful than in any other RPG I can name.

 

[FootloosePhoenix]

You know, I used to think of Final Fantasy X's combat as good yet inferior to the ATB system in most other FF games, but now that I'm replaying X after many years thanks to the HD remaster, there's no other turn-based (or ATB, for that matter) system I've experienced that can come close to touching it. There's just such an amazing degree of effort put into it and it really forces the player to think strategically while at the same time offering some freedom in how to approach any given battle, especially when you unlock the Sphere Grid/use the Expert Sphere Grid and get to customize characters in any way you wish. Albeit that takes a lot of grinding, so you're probably better off to just stick to each character's intended path, but it's great for those devoted enough.

Final Fantasy X in general is just so beautifully crafted. I knew I was going to enjoy playing it again, but I didn't realize I was going to fall in love with practically everything about it.

As soon as I saw this thread, Final Fantasy X was the first thing that came to mind. No game I've played comes close in terms of making turn-based combat feel strategic and challenging. Granted, I haven't played any of the Grandia, Persona, or many of the other games that are named in this thread (Persona 3/4 are on my backlog, I swear), so I don't have those to compare it to.

I can't speak for Grandia, as I haven't played it either, but unfortunately Persona 3/4 have pretty weak combat, in my opinion. I still enjoy it to a degree, but I'm also very, very into turn-based combat. Even so, if it weren't for the stories and Social Links of those games, it's hard to imagine I would've finished them honestly.

 

[Pink Gregory]

Advance Wars on Gameboy. I like turn based strategy games and these came out real well! You had Several generals with special abilities which you could use one during a mission. The campaign was usually pretty lengthy with the option to replay with unlocked generals. The gameplay had cities you had to control to earn resources(gold) to purchase troops. It had real good graphics and sound as well and they made at least 3 and I am pretty sure of a 4th. I miss them greatly considering I don't think it came to 3DS and I hoped for sure it would have gotten a Wii port but it seems to have fallen off of existence.

This, although my experience is from playing Advanced Wars Dual Strike (DS version). Really liked the combination of resource management, character buffs/debuffs and tag-team effects. The game had a good amount of diversity in the unit choices with enough rock-paper-scissor counters to make it strategic, but also with the OP units to make it interesting, especially given the ammo and fuel mechanics (neotanks ftw)

There was actually an Advance Wars game on the DS after Dual Strike, but apparently it lost a lot of it's charm, not to mention the mechanics of Dual Strike.

 

[Mikejames]

The Kotor games, because they manage to hide the fact that they're turn-based so well.

I loved the middle-ground that KOTOR's combat system took. There was something about the stylish melee and the fact that I could run away at any time and start randomly chucking grenades that resonated with me.

By that extension I enjoyed Dragon Age, but I almost always stick with the Mage-styled combat.

 

[Bocaj2000]

Are we really not stating any tabletop games? No Warmachine, Warhammer, or anything? Screw it, I'll be the first:

The Games Workshop's specialty games are my favorite turn based systems: Blood Bowl, Mordenheim, Space Hulk, and especially Necromunda. Each of these games gives a feeling of grit and struggle. You don't have all mighty badasses, but instead a mediocre gang. For example, in Necromunda you can amass power to the point of being untouchable in the Undercity... but above you there are Space Marines that can easily kick your ass.

Unfortunately all of these games have been discontinued by GW. But there is hope; they are being made into video games by various studios. Right now we have video game versions of Blood Bowl and Space Hulk, but I'm holding my breath for the other two.

 

[Joseph Wallace]

HaHa so no I didn't think about tabletop gaming as this is primarily an electronic magazine but I have just gotten into Warhammer 40k and its cool so far. I just wanted to really mention that a blood bowl already released dismally on the xbox 360. I never have been good at foot ball so it may be me but considering it didn't do well im guessing that the game was a bit more over peoples head then what was thought. It does have a live play or a turn based play but I just couldn't get the hang of it either way.

 

[Neon Jackal]

Hybrid Heaven on N64 was a really interesting system, one I wish someone would bring back.

 

[sageoftruth]

I had quite a blast with Mana Khemia 2. It was set up to show you the exact order everyone on both sides would be attacking, and the amount of time characters had to wait between attacks also depended on what they did with their turns, making for plenty of planning. Basically, if a character chose to cast a powerful spell instead of just using a potion, his or her portrait would appear further down the turns list.
Furthermore, you had two reserve characters. When you attacked, you had a limited time to decide whether or not to send in a reserve character to both follow up your attack with one of his or her own, as well as sub in for th, kind of like the tag-in attacks in Capcom tagteam games. Furthermore, if a character was being attacked, you could push the swap-in button to have a reserve character "swap in" in a defensive position. Both of these added a small action element to the turn-based combat.
There was also a meter that you filled by inflicting high-damage attacks, which when full allowed you to unleash flashy super attacks kind of like the "Purify Soul" attacks from Valkyrie Profile". Such attacks could be unleashed by individual characters, or you could unleash a combo super attack by activating it while a reserve character was following up your attack.
This doesn't even cover the entire battle system. It's a really entertaining battle system with plenty of active inputs, despite being technically turn-based.

 

[Maximum Bert]

What no one has mentioned Chess yet? Im not sure what my favourite is for turn based there have been some excellent ones obviously some CCGs have made excellent systems Magic especially but computer game wise er it would probably be something like Valkyria Chronicles, FFX, Advance wars or Disgaea 4 I dont really have a favourite but I did really like those four among many others.

 

[Robert Kalmar]

So uhh... nobody played Radiant Historia or it's just me who thought it was a fantastic battle system? essentially, you could choose the position on the CTB bar (like in FFX) you would like to take your current turn. you could even switch turns with the enemy! it was something like a "wait" command, just you could choose how much turn you wanted to wait. stacking up your characters turn would lead to longer combos and to higher damage. but if you switch your turn, your character took extra damage until that character did an action. you also had to move the enemies in the grid system. most skill push enemies aside or back and enemies on the same grid position would take damage simultaneously. it was highly tactical and interesting combat system, something you would expect from the team behind SMT and Digital Saga games.

 

[V4Viewtiful]

Xenoblade Chronicles, it was fun more refined than FF12 (which I played after) and at a certain level in the you don't have to press a button and watch the awesome. the gems the customisable clothing and character types meant you could mix things up a lot.


I know it might not count but I don't care


And I played Radiant Historia, it was very polished, I thought.

Golden Sun was always fun, I don't find A problem with it as liked the whole Djinn thing.
My other fav may be Mario & Luigi: Partners in time.

 

[octafish]

I loved the much-missed play-by-email game Laser Squad Nemesis and if pressed for a favourite - that would be it for me. I also liked Fallout Tactics, Jagged Alliance 2 and Chaos Gate. Probably a bit old-school if I am to think about it.

I tried playing XCom Apocalypse in turn-based mode, but the maps and scale are clearly built for real-time or semi-real time gameplay. The latest XCom is slick, but has lost something. It's not as replayable as some of the other systems.

Julian Gollop is a golden god. That said I prefer the transition from real time to turn based that JA2 delivers.

 

[shrekfan246]

Chrono Trigger without a doubt.

Yes it is Active Time Battle system, but that can be turned off to be true turn based.

The most amazing thing about Chrono Trigger is that battles happen on the map, there is no screen transition to a battle system. To this day I have not encountered another RPG that does this.

Enemies are always moving around and some techs are dependent on enemy placement if you want to hit more than one enemy at a time. That gives some additional strategy to battles.

Dual and triple techs. Very ground breaking idea of coming two characters attacks into one powerful one.

I would absolutely love to see a modern day RPG that uses the Chrono Trigger battle system.

Er... well, except for the combining of abilities to make a more powerful version, Final Fantasy XII does that. Xenoblade Chronicles as well, with the bonus of having actual melee abilities that you can use to keep the fighting fresh in the early-game before you've got tons of spells.

OT: Hm, I don't know. I do quite like the systems used in Persona 3 and 4, as far as pure turn-based combat is concerned. The problem is that the differences in the systems between games like Persona 4, Chrono Cross, XCOM: Enemy Unknown, Final Fantasy Tactics, Legend of Dragoon, Pokemon, and Final Fantasy X make them almost incomparable. I like (most of) them all for different reasons, and they all have different pros and cons.

 

[New Frontiersman]

Hmm... that's a tough one. For me there are two good choices, the Brave/ Default system from Bravely Default and Action Commands from the various Mario RPGs.

I like Brave and Default, because they set up a nice risk/reward system with taking turns. You can take a bunch of turns in advance, if you think you can take down the enemy that quickly but if you miscalculate or if they Default when you Brave you're screwed because now they have four free turns on you. It makes you think ahead and plan out your actions. It's really fun and keeps battles interesting.

Action commands from work similarly to keep battles fresh throughout the game, but in a completely different way. Because you can't just spam A, you have to pay attention to your timing to get the maximum amount of damage, it means you can't just autopilot through battles, you have to be paying attention. Because they keep introducing new enemy and attack types throughout the game it always keeps you on your toes and keeps the battles fresh in ways that traditional combat can't.

 

[ForumSafari]

It's not what you meant but the system for Warmachine and Hordes to a lesser extent is a damn tight rules system that would translate well to a game, it's one of the best systems I've played that supports the weirdness of a non-historical tabletop wargame.

 

[Arqus_Zed]

My pick goes to either Shadow Hearts: Covenant (it's like FF X, only better) or the press turn system of the later Shin Megami Tensei titles - unforgivable, but so satisfying!