For all of you who do not know, Citizen Kane is often regarded as the greatest film of all time and was one of the first films to be universally recognized as Art. Has their been a game like this? If so, what was the game and explain it's impact on Video Games as an art form.
What is the "Citizen Kane" of Video Games?
- Thread starter Na Klar Nick
- Start date
Recommended Videos
First, let me just give my take on Citizen Kane. I don't think it's regarded as the greatest film of all time. If you watch it today, you will probably be able to enjoy it but more so you will appreciate what it did for movies as a medium, and you will be able to appreciate its mastery of cinematic techniques: lighting, cuts, etc. I think there are a lot of movies that have come out since that are hailed as better (in IMDB's top 250 movies of all time, Citizen Kane doesn't even make the top 25.)
Anyway, with that in mind, I always thought it was the Ocarina of Time. I think that game really showed the world what video games could do in three dimensions, and packed some great mechanics and design choices. Maybe it's just me (I didn't play OoT until years after it had been released), but I wouldn't call the game one of the most fun ones that you can play today, as I'm sure several ensuing Zelda games have built on it, but you can't deny OoT's mastery of the medium and impact on the industry.
Anyway, with that in mind, I always thought it was the Ocarina of Time. I think that game really showed the world what video games could do in three dimensions, and packed some great mechanics and design choices. Maybe it's just me (I didn't play OoT until years after it had been released), but I wouldn't call the game one of the most fun ones that you can play today, as I'm sure several ensuing Zelda games have built on it, but you can't deny OoT's mastery of the medium and impact on the industry.
Citizen Kane is the Citizen Kane of movies because it was the first to use the the unique technical attributes of the medium in an expressive way that enhanced the power of the narrative, and in doing so invented modern film. The only time I've seen this happen with games, where the way the game was played was connected with the story in a way that made the story have a greater impact was "would you kindly" in Bioshock, which was probably the single greatest moment of creative genius that I have ever seen in a game.
I have never, and probably will never see Citizen Kane. I don't believe there has been a game that has caused gaming to make the transition to "art form" as you say Citizen Kane did. If one had, we wouldn't really be arguing with the American government about them being covered under the first amendment would we?
The problem, as you've seen, is that Citizen Kane despite being an astounding movie, doesn't always rank as a number one film. It's basic premise, that of a valiant man torn down by his own hubris, has been repeated many many times; and CK itself is not without its gaping plot holes.
Of the greatest game that followed in Citizen Kane's footsteps...I'd have to plump for one of the earlier Mario games. Brilliantly simple, totally replayable, frustrating as anything but ultimately rewarding. (Even if fridge logic kicks in at the last moment)
But it's not the most wide-ranging game, or the prettiest, or the greatest soundtrack, or the fastest or the most immersive.
It just captures the zeitgeist of gaming the best, imho.
Who actually heard him say "Rosebud"? There was no-one around who could have.
Of the greatest game that followed in Citizen Kane's footsteps...I'd have to plump for one of the earlier Mario games. Brilliantly simple, totally replayable, frustrating as anything but ultimately rewarding. (Even if fridge logic kicks in at the last moment)
But it's not the most wide-ranging game, or the prettiest, or the greatest soundtrack, or the fastest or the most immersive.
It just captures the zeitgeist of gaming the best, imho.
Citizen Kane wasn't necessarily the greatest film, but it was one of the first films to use the camera as a tool unique to it's medium (and to very good effect) instead of making movies that were filmed like stage plays. In the case of video games, cut-scenes are just the use of another medium and good or bad, it's not advancing video games as a medium at all.
The first time I considered all this was when I played Shadow of the Colossus and met the first colossus. I immediately thought a) "That things @#$%&! HUGE - I want to run away!" and b) "I have to deal with this somehow." I was intimidated nervous and that's something I'd never felt before as part of entertainment. In every other art medium I can sit back and let the artist do the work. I may be nervous about the outcome but it's out of my hands so there is no real intimidation.
To sum up, Shadow of the Colossus is my vote for the closest thing video games have to a 'Citizen Kane'
The first time I considered all this was when I played Shadow of the Colossus and met the first colossus. I immediately thought a) "That things @#$%&! HUGE - I want to run away!" and b) "I have to deal with this somehow." I was intimidated nervous and that's something I'd never felt before as part of entertainment. In every other art medium I can sit back and let the artist do the work. I may be nervous about the outcome but it's out of my hands so there is no real intimidation.
To sum up, Shadow of the Colossus is my vote for the closest thing video games have to a 'Citizen Kane'
I don't think gaming has had a citizen cane. Everything just feels too small and reclusive to be a truly artist and universally recognized game. I feel like the gaming community is a bunch of shut-ins talking about how great there games are and not recognizing how small they truly are int he big scheme.
Edit: can haz 4000 posts?
Edit: can haz 4000 posts?
Talal Provides said:
Citizen Kane took a whole bunch of technique and showcases it in a very nice bundle. It's not really the "first" to have done anything. Plenty of supposed films buffs make claims about Citizen Kane that makes me wonder if they've actually seen anything made prior to 1940.Gene O said:
Suggesting that it was the first to use film-specific techniques to enhance narrative is somewhat ridiculous; very early films were indeed treated similar to plays, but by the 1920's the language of cinema was well into development.
Sergei Eisenstein worked with the live stage, and his films do reflect it, but they also reflect someone who wanted to take as much advantage of the new medium as possible. Battleship Potemkin may be split into acts, but it's also got some extremely aggressive camera usage and, as importantly, editing. Shot composition may not be complicated like it is in the later Citizen Kane, but it's still very well-planned and adapted to the medium. When I think "live theater", I usually don't think of aggressive facial close-ups.
Remember, The Great Train Robbery is most famous for the gunshot towards the camera at the end. People were figuring out that motion picture cameras could do weird stuff from the start.
Labelling anything as the "Citizen Kane" of anything is generally useful only in novelty value, much in the same way that Citizen Kane probably wouldn't be so widely considered the BEST FILM EVAR if the AFI didn't label it as such.
OT: There are plenty of games out there with substantial artistic value. Enjoy them.
Also, the argument of games as art or not. It's silly. Not because games are or aren't art, but because the concept of a binary "art" or "not art" status for a given object is silly. Things can be discussed in terms of what artistic merits they have, not whether they're "art" or "not art". If you care to challenge that, I'd like to see the rationale as to where the "art line" is drawn.
That's all well and good and all, but I would like to nominate Doom =D . Though, I can't say it contributes much to the whole 'games as art' nonsense argument. Well, I guess you could say that proper demon slaying is an art form. Or perhaps fragging an opponent from across the room with a rocket launcher is quite a thing of beauty.
I don't think there has been a game like that yet, if only because gaming as a medium is so, so young compared to movies. Citizen Kane was made long after movies had become an acceptable medium, and gaming is still only, what, 25 years old at most? We may get something some day that melts into the mainstream media and paves the way for the public to accept our hobby, and see it as the medium of expression that it is. So far, however, I feel that hasn't happened.
The closest I can come to something which qualifies is, to me, the Half Life series. Mainly because it, like Citizen Kane used many movie-techniques, uses a constant, interactive narrative rather than cutscenes. To me, a game cannot hope to possess the honour of being compared to Citizen Kane if it still uses movies instead of gameplay to tell its story. Half Life 1 and 2 are, to me, the best series to constantly show the world through the protagonist's eyes.
If you want to compare games to Citizen Kane, you must compare the usage of medium. Many good stories have been told before Citizen Kane, and many good stories have been told in games. But to rise above them and become something more, a game must fully use its medium, not borrow from others.
The closest I can come to something which qualifies is, to me, the Half Life series. Mainly because it, like Citizen Kane used many movie-techniques, uses a constant, interactive narrative rather than cutscenes. To me, a game cannot hope to possess the honour of being compared to Citizen Kane if it still uses movies instead of gameplay to tell its story. Half Life 1 and 2 are, to me, the best series to constantly show the world through the protagonist's eyes.
If you want to compare games to Citizen Kane, you must compare the usage of medium. Many good stories have been told before Citizen Kane, and many good stories have been told in games. But to rise above them and become something more, a game must fully use its medium, not borrow from others.
No. Thou shalt always be stuck at 3999 post count.Twilight_guy said:
Grr... My magic spell failed...
Back on topic, Ocarina of Time made me consider games art. I first played it when I was too young to understand its awesomeness, but after playing again, I realized it was a piece of art. I consider it the best game ever created.
Treblaine said:Na Klar Nick said:Ph33nix said:
(Halo is a fun console shooter, an evolution over Goldeneye, but it is to Video Games as James Bond is to films: fun, popular and with some depth with nice presentation but ultimatley far too safe and predictable)
but you can't deny that it has changed the way first person shooters are designed