What is the problem with Star Wars?

[CleverNickname]

Lucas-bashing is unoriginal and misplaced. The blame for all the sucky SW games in recent years lie with the chaotic management of LucasArts. They fired a lot of their in-house devs, cancelled projects left and right and don't have an ounce of creativity left in the whole company.
The only good thing that happened under the current president was the small nostalgia-wave that led to the Monkey Island Special Editions.

There is still tons of potential for great games in the Star Wars universe, but they're making them as if they could lose their last dollar. Why it hasn't reached them yet that a proper KotOR3, Jedi Knight 4 or Republic Commando 2 could give them the license to print money, or at least restore the fanbase's faith in them, is beyond me.

 

[Flying-Emu]

Lucas can't hear your complaints over the roar of his waterfall of money.

 

[hermes]

I don't agree. The Battlefront series, the Jedi Knight series (including Jedi Academy), the X-Wing series, the KOTOR series and the Republic Commandoes (sadly, not a series) are all pretty good. Sure, there are a lot of mediocre ones (like The Force Unleashed, or the movie ones from SNES) and some really awful ones (like the new movie ones on PS2), but overall its not really that shitty track as you tend to believe, especially for a series of movies created just to justify merchandise.

 

[iFail69]

KOTOR was the shiz
Battlefront and Battlefront 2 were damn awesome

but yeah, most of the others were crappy in so many ways (damn you starkiller and your overpowered nature...)

 

[TyrantGanado]

What is wrong with Star Wars? A lot. The original movies were great, to me the prequels were hit and miss but I like them. Aside from the six movies, the original Knights of the Old Republic, Republic Commando and the orginal Battlefront, Star Wars has become rubbish to me.

I blame everything on the expanded universe. The worst thing about the expanded universe is any story that takes place after Episode 6. The death of Chewbacca, the shame of Boba Fett falling into the Sarlacc two more times, a second galactic civil war, but worst of all, the return of the sith.
In the prequels Anakin was meant to be the chosen one who would destroy the sith completely. Think about it, Palpatine came back three times from the dead, the child of Han and Leia became a sith and Jedi A'Sharad Hett who fought in the clone wars became Darth Krayt and created the order of the one sith a hundred years after episode 6. Now, with the sith alive and well, doesn't that mean that Anakin died in vain? Doesn't that mean he was not the chosen one and balance can't be brought to the force? Doesn't that make the six movies utterly pointless then?!

What happened? What happened to telling a good story? What happened to the magic of Star Wars?

Star Wars needs to end and exist only as memories.

I'm actually glad they did that, it makes the universe more "realistic" in the sense that one guy's death isn't going to lead to a fairy tale happy ending where everyone lives in peace forever after.

Star Wars fans by and large are far too fickle and need to just sit back and realise that a lot of them are either:

A) Blinkered by nostalgia
B) Passengers on the bandwagon
C) In possession of ludicrously high standards.

Now there is nothing wrong with expecitng enjoyment from your favourite franchises and all franchises are going to be a litte off the mark from time-to-time but the sheer amount of venom directed at Star Wars and Lucas is, quite frankly, staggering. Most of what comes out of the universe is average-to-good with the occasional great item and the occasional pile of shit.

Plus, the fact that the original audience are now into their middle ages doesn't help, sure Star Wars is aiming at younger audiences. So what? No one ever gave you the right to be the only generation able to enjoy it. If you hate it so much pass the mantle over and stop fucking bitching about it.

This is from a near-lifelong fan by the way. Albeit one of 19 but eh.

PS, LordXel: Don't take offense, only the first sentence was aimed at you and was just me sharing an opinion, the rest was a general rant

tl;dr: Star Wars fans need to shut the fuck up and do something productive with the time they spend moaning.

 

[Infinatex]

Dark Forces, Jedi Outcast and Jedi Academy were all good games too, and from what I've heard the X-Wing and TIE Fighter games were all quite well done.

The pod racer one on N64 was awesome too! Best spin-off game ever!

 

[emeraldrafael]

I've just started playing Knights of the Old Republic, so I've been thinking about Star Wars, and more specifically about the track record of Star Wars video games. Yes, there have been good ones (I'm told KotOR is very very good) but it occurs to me that there's been an awful lot of mistakes made.

KOTOR 2, so I read, was pushed out unfinished; KOTOR 3 was cancelled; The Force Unleashed ramped up the power of the Force to ridiculous levels in the name of God of War style spectacle; TFU II got terrible reviews and had an awful, half done story that feels like about 1/3 of the game was missing (like most of what was seen in the teaser trailers); and I read somewhere that the third TFU has been cancelled.

Then of course there's Star Wars Galaxies, which will forever stand as a monument to how not to handle gameplay changes in an MMO.

It's tempting, particularly in the light of the prequel trilogy, to blame it all on George Lucas, but I'm not familiar enough with the ins and outs of development of the games I've mentioned to know if it's LucasArts meddling or that they just have terrible luck with who they licence the franchise out to.

So, my question is - why does Star Wars keep screwing up, and in the light of EA stating that they want 10 years plus out of SWTOR, should they be worried that LucasArts will interfere and disaster will come crashing down on a Star Wars MMO for a second time?

You forgot battlefront 3 as a sequel that wouldnt be made but would be awesome to have.

Also, mainly I htink its cause they like whats successful, then instead of releasing a sequel, they make a new game that is hit or miss, while also incorporating what is popular. That, and i htink Lucas has a fetish for expanding his universe more and focusing on non important chracters.

 

[thethingthatlurks]

I love the Jedi Knight, KotOR (with kotor2 being the better due to its incredibly deep and excellent story), and Battlefront serieses, but that's really about it. The classic trilogy is something of a popcorn movie collection for me, fun to watch, but not terribly deep or meaningful. The movies are by no means bad, but not exactly masterpieces either. I guess my problems with Star Wars is how milked it's been. The fans, and people who actually like the new trilogy do the rest...

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

Star Wars is a very defined set of ideals - and corresponding tropes - that blends a number of disparate elements (film noir, high fantasy, science fiction) into a collection.

Most of the "bad" elements are from examples that try to add extra tropes that it's not able to contain - or doesn't understand the premise behind the chop/change.

One of the worst things you can do to Star Wars is Power Creep (See SW:TFU), Flanderise it(Droids/Ewoks/Clone Wars) or simply leave out the strong narrative (The Prequels).

Star Wars : The Universe needs to play like a spaghetti western in space, with stereotype characters, limited funds and a religious quest backdrop or it simply collapses.

TROOPS manages it wonderfully, as does the Han Solo novels and the role-playing game (Pre-D20).

The rest of them just want to add so many extra bits that the "Star Wars" bits get lost.

 

[FFHAuthor]

The problem is that Lucas still thinks it's just a story. When about 100,000 people in America list their religion as 'Jedi' in the Census, it's a tad bit more than just 'his story'.

 

[MrhalfAwake]

I saw Episode One when I was a 12 years old and absolutely loved it. I still do. What I don't get is why all the hate for the prequels,

Deep breath

1) Anakin is a dick, in the original trilogy he was painted to be a good man driven to the dark side out of desperation. In the PT he does nothing but whine and blame people for shit. He slaughters defenseless woman and children, is openly treacherous and thinks only of himself. the way Ben Kenobi spoke of him in A New Hope he gives the impression they were war buddies

2) Over reliance on CG. But it should be used in moderation. It felt like almost NOTHING was organic, even set pieces they could have easily built physically. Lord of the Rings used CG a lot but it still had plenty of physical elements so it didn't seem like everyone was in Cool World

2.5) You made me remember cool world. ass.

3) BAD CHARACTERIZATION! Everyone's either boring or annoying. Darth Maul was annoyingly boring. He was supposed to be some major antagonist and he ended up being a throwaway boss. we ever really got into anyones head or could feel for them as people so all the action and drama lacked any real sense or reason to care

4) MIDICHLROIANS. remember the force yeah mystical, vaguely religious and wondrous thing in the first movies. yeah turns out that's not anything but bacteria. The Force was an awe inspiring mysterious thing, it was inspiring. Imagine if someone jsut came along and hand waved what inspired and moved you for decades as bacteria.

5) the jedi ARE DICKS! they know about slaves and do they do anything to help, no. They know were a mass group of people are being impressed and forced into squaler and do they do anything, no. They take the one they want and wash their hands of the whole thing. they're supposed to be defenders of justice and freedom. A force of good in the universe and what are they focusing on, trade disputes and making sure people don't leave their republic. Instead of being the heroes and noble warriors they should be they're busy forcing people into a system of government they want no part of.

6. To much politics. it's not even that there are to much politics it's that the politics therein make no goddamn sense. We never learn the consequences of the succession and the senate is a complete mess. More to the point it's boring. It's just boring. A star wars movie is about epic space battles and struggles of good vs evil and overcoming ones inner fears and living up to your destiny, not plotting trade routes.

7. Portman and guy who played Anakin had zero chemistry and and no acting ability.

8. Lack of cohesive story and a tangible goal. Everything that happens in Phantom Menace is effectively a serious of accidents that somehow lead up a fight. There's no objective. A new hope had a empire to overthrow and a princess to rescue, in addition to a hero growing up and facing his fate.

Everything that made Star Wars good was taken away to make these prequels.

 

[Nimcha]

I saw Episode One when I was a 12 years old and absolutely loved it. I still do. What I don't get is why all the hate for the prequels,

Deep breath

I'm afraid I don't agree with any of those points. :< Well, maybe the Midichlorians. I thought that was stupid too. And the romance plot could have been fleshed out better, it was rather important for the story after all.

The other things are actually stuff I like. Misterious Darth Maul, conflicted Anakin, galactic politics, huge space battles in glorious CG...

But maybe I'm just weird

 

[SL33TBL1ND]

The Phantom Menace Playstation game was really good to. Especially the Mos Eisley level.

 

[SL33TBL1ND]

I saw Episode One when I was a 12 years old and absolutely loved it. I still do. What I don't get is why all the hate for the prequels,

8. Lack of cohesive story and a tangible goal. Everything that happens in Phantom Menace is effectively a serious of accidents that somehow lead up a fight. There's no objective. A new hope had a empire to overthrow and a princess to rescue, in addition to a hero growing up and facing his fate.

I have to refute this point. Episode one was a depiction of what Jedi's assignments were like. Which is obviously going to be very different to the original trilogy since the Jedi then aren't a pseudo-government police-body.

Edit: Whoops, forgot I had my previous post up.

 

[Throwitawaynow]

I saw Episode One when I was a 12 years old and absolutely loved it. I still do. What I don't get is why all the hate for the prequels,

Deep breath

I'm afraid I don't agree with any of those points. :< Well, maybe the Midichlorians. I thought that was stupid too. And the romance plot could have been fleshed out better, it was rather important for the story after all.

The other things are actually stuff I like. Misterious Darth Maul, conflicted Anakin, galactic politics, huge space battles in glorious CG...

But maybe I'm just weird

You're not weird, I prefer the prequels, and the points he made could be said about the sequels, weren't bad things, or I don't see as true. Midichlorians and the chemistry between Anakin and Padme were understandable criticisms.

 

[Merkavar]

games based on movies just dont work. and on the very rare once in a blue times they do work its probably cause they actually made a GAME and not a game based on a movie in order to cash in on the popularity of the movie.

 

[MrhalfAwake]

The other things are actually stuff I like. Misterious Darth Maul, conflicted Anakin, galactic politics, huge space battles in glorious CG...

But maybe I'm just weird [/quote]

yes, yes you are.

Maul wasn't mysterious, he wasn't anything. Mysteries have clues and payoffs. Maul just made a few shadowy appearances and then jumped out for a fight.

Anakin wasn't conflicted he was a ***** who cared only for himself. Luke was conflicted. He was unsure but at least he was trying to figure out what to do. Anakin did nothing but harp about how no one respects him even though he's just a dumb ass little kid who hasn't earned it. That's not conflict that's lashing out. He doesn't try to do the right thing he doesn't try to understand ANYTHING and he doesn't even try to better himself as a jedi. He's an angry little *****.

as for the politics. well guess what politics don't work that way. and even if they did we would still need to know the consequences of the succession, who and why the trade federation were even a threat at all and every other facet of the universe. You can't just sit people around in a room and have them say the word tariff and taxes a hundred time.

as for the space battles, well I like cartoons too but again without any likable characters or reason to care it's just lights and noises, you're better of watching teletubbies.

I saw Episode One when I was a 12 years old and absolutely loved it. I still do. What I don't get is why all the hate for the prequels,

I have to refute this point. Episode one was a depiction of what Jedi's assignments were like. Which is obviously going to be very different to the original trilogy since the Jedi then aren't a pseudo-government police-body.

Edit: Whoops, forgot I had my previous post up.

A) That's not an objective.
B) even it was they would still need to develop the characters and their motivations
C) they are so very much a pseudo government body. They were at the republics beck and call and instead of doing things like freeing slaves and protecting the weak they were running errands for Amadalia.
D) You can't have a movie without a plot of some kind

 

[SL33TBL1ND]

A) That's not an objective.
B) even it was they would still need to develop the characters and their motivations
C) they are so very much a pseudo government body. They were at the republics beck and call and instead of doing things like freeing slaves and protecting the weak they were running errands for Amadalia.
D) You can't have a movie without a plot of some kind

A) Their objective was to diplomatically solve the blockade of Naboo. They failed to do so and where caught in the middle of a war. Just because they failed their original objective doesn't mean they didn't have one.

B) That has nothing to do with my response.

C) It's not like those two people could single-handedly change an entire planet's society all the while trying to get enough money to fix their ship.

D) It did have a plot, otherwise there wouldn't have been a story to tell. Whether or not it was a good one was never part of my response.

 

[Oilerfan92]

I saw Episode One when I was a 12 years old and absolutely loved it. I still do. What I don't get is why all the hate for the prequels,

Deep breath

1) Anakin is a dick, in the original trilogy he was painted to be a good man driven to the dark side out of desperation. In the PT he does nothing but whine and blame people for shit. He slaughters defenseless woman and children, is openly treacherous and thinks only of himself. the way Ben Kenobi spoke of him in A New Hope he gives the impression they were war buddies

2) Over reliance on CG. But it should be used in moderation. It felt like almost NOTHING was organic, even set pieces they could have easily built physically. Lord of the Rings used CG a lot but it still had plenty of physical elements so it didn't seem like everyone was in Cool World

2.5) You made me remember cool world. ass.

3) BAD CHARACTERIZATION! Everyone's either boring or annoying. Darth Maul was annoyingly boring. He was supposed to be some major antagonist and he ended up being a throwaway boss. we ever really got into anyones head or could feel for them as people so all the action and drama lacked any real sense or reason to care

4) MIDICHLROIANS. remember the force yeah mystical, vaguely religious and wondrous thing in the first movies. yeah turns out that's not anything but bacteria. The Force was an awe inspiring mysterious thing, it was inspiring. Imagine if someone jsut came along and hand waved what inspired and moved you for decades as bacteria.

5) the jedi ARE DICKS! they know about slaves and do they do anything to help, no. They know were a mass group of people are being impressed and forced into squaler and do they do anything, no. They take the one they want and wash their hands of the whole thing. they're supposed to be defenders of justice and freedom. A force of good in the universe and what are they focusing on, trade disputes and making sure people don't leave their republic. Instead of being the heroes and noble warriors they should be they're busy forcing people into a system of government they want no part of.

6. To much politics. it's not even that there are to much politics it's that the politics therein make no goddamn sense. We never learn the consequences of the succession and the senate is a complete mess. More to the point it's boring. It's just boring. A star wars movie is about epic space battles and struggles of good vs evil and overcoming ones inner fears and living up to your destiny, not plotting trade routes.

7. Portman and guy who played Anakin had zero chemistry and and no acting ability.

8. Lack of cohesive story and a tangible goal. Everything that happens in Phantom Menace is effectively a serious of accidents that somehow lead up a fight. There's no objective. A new hope had a empire to overthrow and a princess to rescue, in addition to a hero growing up and facing his fate.

Everything that made Star Wars good was taken away to make these prequels.

This. This till the day I die.

It just seems like Lucas felt that whatever ideas he put into the movies would work, because it's Star Wars.

- The Pod-Race scene. Why do we need a race scene ? Chase sense are fine. But a RACE ? It ads nothing. You can say that it proves Anikan is a skilled pilot. But that's like showing a kid driving a race car in the Indy 500 then outing him in a jet fighter during the end of Independence Day.

- the Jedi are turned for some mystical enigma of legend in the original series into what us essentially the Mounties. Cops that are above the normal cops. But still essentially cops.

- some of the tie-overs seem weird. "oh hey Chewbacca ! Well, see ya". "The evil empire is hunting us and these kids. Where should we put them ? I know. Let's send Luke to his only living relatives and Jimmy Smits will take Leia and go back to his house where everyone knows where he lives. Also, Obi Wan, you can talk to the dead now".

I'm no hardcore fan by ANYMEANS. But come on.

 

[gabe12301]

And they hate George Lucas.

Only because he's mad man so blinded by power and greed that he threatens to destroy the very universe he himself created

You make him sound like a corrupt god. lol