What is with all the disrespect for western animation?

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ZeroMachine

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bahumat42 said:
ZeroMachine said:
bahumat42 said:
ZeroMachine said:
Because most of it is crap.

The only company to output western animation of a good quality every time they release something is Pixar. Compared to them, most of it really is crap.

I mean, for crying out loud, when a show like Adventure Time is praised like crazy, I can't help but think that people are just that desperate for something good.

But it's not like it's all crap. Look at Avatar: The Last Airbender, or... um... I don't know, Spongebob isn't too bad, even though it's gone downhill since the movie.

It's just that, with very rare exception, children's shows never tackle mature subjects anymore, and most of the time when they do they do it horribly.

I miss the days of Hey Arnold! and The Wild Thornberrys where you learned lessons while being entertained.

For the record: I also dislike most anime. The only animes I really, really enjoy are Dragonball/DBZ and Full Metal Alchemist (not Brotherhood).
2 things

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Not all other cg movies blow.

And why no brotherhood love. I mean yes they handle hughes badly, but the fight scenes are better and you get a bunch of new and interesting characters. I respect your right to have an opinion, but its a damn good ride.
Two responses:

Never said all others were crap. Hence "most".

Brotherhood's pacing isn't anywhere near as enjoyable for me as the original anime's, and Brotherhood's "jokes" (for lack of a better term) were too constant. The first had a good balance... funny moments, but overall, still very serious.

But it's all personal preference.
Oh yeah the firsts slower pace is definitely in its favour. But the grander scale of the new version puts them at equal footing in my eyes.

And i apologise for reading in too deeply to the crap statement, i love HTTYD and can get defensive ^^.
I've been meaning to watch it, actually, I heard it was a great movie for a non-Pixar CGI film.
 

Mallefunction

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I blame the shit cartoons that aire for kids on TV right now. It's not just nostalgia goggles blinding me either. Comparing older cartoons to the new...it's a ravine of difference. Then of course adult animation is basically South Park and Family Guy with no variation.

Anime at least tends to be more varied. It's not better in my opinion, but it spans across a lot more genres than current American work.
 

Shakomaru

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I kinda gave up on Cartoon network after it got rid of Toonami, and then REALLY gave up on it once they started doing all this live action game show real people crap. also, they got rid of Lauren Faust's stuff.... I loved Fosters.... also anime can deal with stronger themes because it isnt just for kids, like animation is thought to be in the U.S. Which obviously makes anime a lot more interesting to people outside the target audience, since there really isnt one.
 

Arisato-kun

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I'm a fan of both. Choosing sides is ridiculous as there is shit and gold in both Western Animation and Japanese Animation.

Though OP I think the reason people don't regard it as highly is because of this.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AnimationAgeGhetto

Sad, but I find it's been the prevailing thought in most places.
 

Thaius

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Because western cartoons are, with the almost sole exceptions of Disney and Pixar (and the occasional Dreamworks film), childish efforts at getting a few giggles out of kids who the makers don't think will know any better. But films are actually the place where western animation is at its best; television is almost always terrible nowdays. There have been a few gems in the last decade, such as Invader Zim and the super Avatar: The Last Airbender, but the last time there was ever more than two bearable children's cartoons on at once was the 90s.

As for other shows like Family Guy and Futurama, they're not all bad (I really like Futurama), but how sad is it that almost all western cartoons are either aimed at children or are stupid, dirty adult comedies?

Now admittedly, I think in the west, Japanese animation is looked down upon more than western. Anime is, according to most, annoying and weird, whereas animation from over here is just too kiddy. In reality though, I wish more western animation dealt with the same mature issues anime deals with on a regular basis. Films like Pixar's and shows like Avatar: The Last Airbender are a start, but we still have a long way to go before the world of western animation conquers the animation age ghetto. I hope it does sometime.
 

Thaliur

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I forgot said:
normally it's japanese animation that doesn't get respect and Pixar is highly regarded.

I would say it's more of a mentality among western (aka American) audiences that animation is for kids because in their entire history of animation when was something made for adults that wasn't a comedy? There has never been an american animated feature that could be compared to the likes of Akira, Ghost in the Shell or Princess Mononoke.
What about "Felidae"? "Watership Down"? "The Animals Of Farthing Wood"? These are definitely not comedies, despite having some funny moments, and I would spend quite some time pondering whether I'd show them to my kids.
 

AyreonMaiden

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The reason I think is because most Western animation is single-minded in its approach. It feels to me like most animated shows out there serve only as 1) episodic romps or 2) humorous episodic romps.

It's rare when you see a Western show with an all-encompassing storyline, or a straight slice-of-life show, or a straight action show, or an artsy abstract show, etcetera. Japan's animation medium is a lot more varied in that regard.

I don't blame anyone at all if their first thought about Western animation is that it's "all the same" because no, it's not all the same, but in terms of what sells over here? Almost nothing but episodic comedy. I don't blame anyone who's bored of that.

I'm mostly speaking about television animation, not movies. If you stacked up Eastern and Western animation in terms of what you see in their movies, I think they're on equal footing.
 

Radoh

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Jun 10, 2010
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Because it isn't Anime and therefore terrible? I have no idea why where you are at Western Animation is treated poorly but we don't have the same issues here. Heck, my avatar is Western Animation and I love it like nothing ever before it.
 

Executor78

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I think it all comes down to taste and exposure. I was part of an anime group that met at a local college and several times we heard people making comments about us watching "animated Japanese porn". Obviously, these people had never seen any anime and didn't know anything about it, but if the only exposure they have to anime is what they see in their local porn shop, then that's what they are going to think all anime is. It's a real shame too, because on the whole Japanese anime has very intelligent stories, deep plot lines, and extremely talented voice actors rivaling any great television show here in the West. On the same note, there are some great Western animation series (like Batman, Avatar, X-Men, Avengers, Justice League, etc...)that also have deep plot lines, awesome voice actors, and intelligent stories and are not just half-hour long toy commercials. The other major factor is taste. There are just some people who don't like animation of any kind, and that's perfectly all right. But ridiculing a legitimate story telling medium just because they either a)don't like it or b)don't understand it is just plain wrong. Animation is not just for kids, even Walt Disney understood that, although it's not clear if his successors did.
 

I forgot

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Thaliur said:
I forgot said:
normally it's japanese animation that doesn't get respect and Pixar is highly regarded.

I would say it's more of a mentality among western (aka American) audiences that animation is for kids because in their entire history of animation when was something made for adults that wasn't a comedy? There has never been an american animated feature that could be compared to the likes of Akira, Ghost in the Shell or Princess Mononoke.
What about "Felidae"? "Watership Down"? "The Animals Of Farthing Wood"? These are definitely not comedies, despite having some funny moments, and I would spend quite some time pondering whether I'd show them to my kids.
I said American.
 

I forgot

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Atmos Duality said:
Eh, I liked western animation back before the last of the original Warner Bros crew died off; they had some truly awesome shows with Animaniacs, Pinky and the Brain, et al.
Today, I find it difficult to enjoy western "Humorous" cartoons simply because the setup and delivery revolves around overly heavy handed cyncism (South Park), or having the central character/theme be extremely annoying (Family Guy, American Dad, Aqua Teen Hunger Force).
On rare occasion, I find a show that gets that mixture just right (Venture Bros, the new Futurama...usually).

I forgot said:
normally it's japanese animation that doesn't get respect and Pixar is highly regarded.
Funny, where I'm from, it's the polar opposite among my generation. Western animation gets shit all over because it ISN'T anime.

There has never been an american animated feature that could be compared to the likes of Akira, Ghost in the Shell or Princess Mononoke.
Yup, didn't take long for that to happen. Well, I hear the "Anime vs Western" storm coming in again, so I'm out.
Japanese animation hardly sees the light of tv or theatres and is rarely featured in any award show or celebration of animation. The second point is the one that indicates lack of respect for it.
What're you talking about. That's not going to bring a storm, that's practically a fact. The number of non-children based non-comedy animated features made in the US is frighteningly rare.
 

Atmos Duality

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I forgot said:
Japanese animation hardly sees the light of tv or theatres and is rarely featured in any award show or celebration of animation. The second point is the one that indicates lack of respect for it.
What're you talking about. That's not going to bring a storm, that's practically a fact. The number of non-children based non-comedy animated features made in the US is frighteningly rare.
Rare or not, my experiences with some western animation are no less meaningful because I haven't seen X, Y, or Z (I actually have seen Akira. It didn't impress me much.) and I'm quite tired of pretentious arguments that try to tell me otherwise.
 

I forgot

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Atmos Duality said:
I forgot said:
Japanese animation hardly sees the light of tv or theatres and is rarely featured in any award show or celebration of animation. The second point is the one that indicates lack of respect for it.
What're you talking about. That's not going to bring a storm, that's practically a fact. The number of non-children based non-comedy animated features made in the US is frighteningly rare.
Rare or not, my experiences with some western animation are no less meaningful because I haven't seen X, Y, or Z (I actually have seen Akira. It didn't impress me much.) and I'm quite tired of pretentious arguments that try to tell me otherwise.
You're not reading what I'm saying and you're not using the word 'pretentious' right. No where did I say your experience was less meaningful.
I was saying that animation was treated as kids stuff in the US rather than a medium of storytelling. That doesn't mean they don't have anything good.
 

Atmos Duality

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I forgot said:
You're not reading what I'm saying and you're not using the word 'pretentious' right. No where did I say your experience was less meaningful.
I was saying that animation was treated as kids stuff in the US rather than a medium of storytelling. That doesn't mean they don't have anything good.
Sorry. Been in a bad mood about the subject since last night.
Half my evening was pissed away watching some incomprehensible, "purely symbolic" anime that makes no sense without the background or context.
 

TheGreatCoolEnergy

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MaxwellMurder said:
I have noticed that western animation gets a lot of disrespect in the media, on the internet, on the bus, in my house, and at my college. Why is it disregarded as crap for kids when there are gems like Ratatouille and Up? Don't get me started on the Spielberg cartoons of the 90s. If Up was live action It would have won best picture.
Take a read bro: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AnimationAgeGhetto

I think that sums it up pretty well.
 

MaxwellMurder

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TheGreatCoolEnergy said:
MaxwellMurder said:
I have noticed that western animation gets a lot of disrespect in the media, on the internet, on the bus, in my house, and at my college. Why is it disregarded as crap for kids when there are gems like Ratatouille and Up? Don't get me started on the Spielberg cartoons of the 90s. If Up was live action It would have won best picture.
Take a read bro: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AnimationAgeGhetto

I think that sums it up pretty well.
Actually I read that before and this thread is me projecting my anger
 

TheGreatCoolEnergy

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MaxwellMurder said:
TheGreatCoolEnergy said:
MaxwellMurder said:
I have noticed that western animation gets a lot of disrespect in the media, on the internet, on the bus, in my house, and at my college. Why is it disregarded as crap for kids when there are gems like Ratatouille and Up? Don't get me started on the Spielberg cartoons of the 90s. If Up was live action It would have won best picture.
Take a read bro: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AnimationAgeGhetto

I think that sums it up pretty well.
Actually I read that before and this thread is me projecting my anger
Ah, I see, my misunderstanding
 

faceless chick

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MaxwellMurder said:
I have noticed that western animation gets a lot of disrespect in the media, on the internet, on the bus, in my house, and at my college. Why is it disregarded as crap for kids when there are gems like Ratatouille and Up? Don't get me started on the Spielberg cartoons of the 90s. If Up was live action It would have won best picture.
i think this problem stems from multiple reasons. here are the ones that come to mind:

1) in the west, people haven't gotten over the "saturday morning sanitized kids cartoons". adults, who aren't up to speed with anything, still think cartoons are just "for kids" and treat them as such. hence why anime is also treated badly.
2) nostalgia- "everything was better on my earth!" (cookie for those who get the reference). peopel THINK their cartoons were better, even if they weren't. case on point: my dad has been fawning over the cartoons of his childhood, which were either russian imports (like "nu pagadi" (sp?) or other eastern-european low-budget kids fare.) i found some recently on youtube and i have to say, they sucked. badly animated, badly voiced, bad and generic stories etc. but for him, they rule. to him, cartoons of the 90s which i grew up with "sucked" and there's no way to prove him wrong

3) cartoons in general have declined. (might also be #2 for me) for a few years now i haven't seen more than 2-3 cartoons i found entertaining, and i watch cartoon network a lot more than i should at my age.

i feel like we're going through another animation dark age, like in the 70s. pretty much cartoons have gone full circle. from the rise of the 50s with theatrical cartoons (tom and jerry) to the tv breakthrough and decline in quality (hanna barbera everything), to the complete decline of the 70s (when soccer moms took over), the revival of the 80s (when cartoon started becoming good again) , the awesomeness of the 90 (batman, need i say more?), the unstable 00s (good cartoons, but risky and not as successful), to the god-awful badly budgeted and unimaginative/crazy decade we live in (flapjack..srsly fuck that show!)

so everyone has mostly given up on american cartoons, with very few gems sticking out, most of which are done anime-style anyway (ben 10, avatar, xiaolin showdown, witch, totally spies if we count success into the mix).

i think american animation will come around, but that will only happen once our generation hits 40 and we're cleansed of the old "cartoons are for kids" generations of today. otherwise, cartoons will stay stale for a long time.
 

CrazyGirl17

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Sep 11, 2009
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It's probably because people think that "cartoons are for children" or some other idiotic load of BS... But that's just my opinion.