What is with Final Fantasy Tactics?

[galdon2004]

I tried out Final Fantasy Tactics recently, War of the Lions, more specifically. I had been told it is a more forgiving format of strategy game than Fire Emblem since you can replace units and play more than just story missions.

So, I start off the game, and after the first mission(s) that are mostly introductory, without any instructions on how to actually play the game (yes I know there is a tutorial option on the menu, but some amount of tutorial should always be integrated within the game it's self) I finally get 'free' from the story to move on my own. At this point, the game hands me a novel of an instructions manual that I can search through between fights to research on my own how to do things.

Now all of a sudden, the game decides that I am now an EXPERT at the game, and is going all out to utterly destroy me from the get-go. I get that this is a strategy game, but so is chess; and you don't introduce somebody to chess by tossing them a book about chess and then pitting them against a regional champion at the game.

The ingame is messed up as well; you cannot undo anything. This is not to say that I want to undo back to an earlier point in the battle when things were going well; I mean I move my chemist up closer so he can throw a potion to somebody, and it turns out they are, due to terrain, or enemy placement, apparently unable to succeed at the throw, and I am not able to undo the move, or even use my remaining movement to move a bit closer and try again; I am stuck on that spot and have to wait a full turn cycle before I can try to use another potion.

Because corpses take up space that cannot be landed on, and you can move after attacking, getting the enemy into a bottleneck which would be tactically sound in any other situation real life or in any other game, is not a HORRIBLE strategic move.

The real kicker was the first zone random encounter I got on my way back from the castle; Chocobos appeared, who can run far longer distances than my characters, can heal it's self, and numerous allies without MP cost apparently, and can counterattack automatically.

The battle took over an hour and a half before I turned the game off in frustration at how much time was completely wasted on a fight that was completely meaningless. Every time I weakened any enemy, a chocobo healed it. Any time I weakened a chocobo, it ran off where there is no way to chase it, and heals it's self.

This is the most unwelcoming game I've ever seen; even IWBTG was friendlier in that it at least tells you first how badly it will murder you from the start. What exactly is the design philosophy here? I hear it gets better 10-20 hours in, but I don't see the point in torturing myself for 10-20 hours to be allowed to enjoy a game.

 

[targren]

FFT:WotL is a remake. That they tucked the tutorial away where it was optional is a good thing, since a lot of the people playing it are going to be fans of the original. Go through it, and you'll find the game much simpler. Part of the reason I like it(the original. Piss on the "Advance" series!) where I'm not crazy about most of NIS' offerings (yes, even Disgaia) is because there's far less micromanagement involved.

 

[Bob_F_It]

You think THAT's hard in FFT? Wait till you get to the bosses! I'm stuck at the second big boss, thanks to the game forcing me into that fight after coming out of a 1-on-1.

You are absolutely right, Final Fantasy Tactics is Nintendo Hard, but that's what I like about it in this age where Ninja Gaiden gets dumbed down. The game will ask for your best thinking to survive, since the AI plays without fault. I can get by by properly zoning their attacks (that's their movement + attack range + 1) and piling enemies.

If you want something more forgiving, FFT Advance is out there, though the Law system in that cheeses me off to no end. At least FFTA2 leaves a reminder on the top screen of the DS.

 

[GrandmaFunk]

games used to be less forgiving. when you make a mistake you have to suck it up and hopefully learn from it.

but i do remember yellow chocobos being a pain to deal with early on because you can't do enough spike to take them out.


can I ask which system you're playing this on? I'd love to go through it again.

 

[Kahunaburger]

Huh, maybe I should get FFT.

 

[IndomitableSam]

At the beginning most everyone should stay a squire (with maybe people rotating through monk and thief enough to open new jobs) and have one person as a White Mage/Black mage and one chemist who is pretty darn useless but there just in case. Possibly a thief too, mostly for the speed, not the stealing as much. Ramza should actually stay a squire through most of the game, but monk is a good secondary job until ninja, mostly for chakra (chakra is awesome, always learn that first as it will save you often). Archers are good, but don't use crossbows as they fire straight - bows will arch over terrain. Time mages are also good if you use them well. Geomancer works in the beginning too, but don't use axes as their damage can vary widely hit to hit.

I usually end up with Ramza as a squire/ninja, a thief/ninja, a mage (whichever has the highest speed and put white mage as secondary), a lancer/thief and... a calculator. But they take forever to level until they're useful. Usually I make my mage one. So maybe an archer/samurai (ectra strength) or geomancer/thief (better atk) or geomancer/mage (better spells) for distance attacks.

Love that game. I usually don't go with the special characters, but they are quite good.

 

[GrandmaFunk]

in my last few runs through I think I only played with special characters...Agrias makes a great knight/timemage and blasting ppl with Worker8 is always fun

 

[Frankster]

This is one of those games you should probably read the manual before playing.

FF:T ain't the easiest game around, but gets satifying as you build up your squads.
Also i wouldn't say it's "easier" cos you can replace party members, losing a veteran party member who you developped across half the game isn't something you're likely to replace easily.

 

[Verzin]

I loved FFT. played that game so much, lol. So many secrets in that game...so many.

 

[loudestmute]

I think the problem I have with FFT (and SRPGs in general) is quite similar to that which you're describing. After introducing the basic mechanics and getting you invested in the plot, your progress jerks to a halt if you haven't been level grinding like they never mentioned was necessary until after the seventeenth time you get your party wiped by a story battle.

It's a technique only slightly less painful than the "schlep crap back to the other end of the world" method of artificially lengthening a game.

 

[krazykidd]

That was bad luck . Also no you can't undo . So calculate how many steps youcan take , and whats the range for your skills/items . Think up a strategy and take out yor enemies one by one . Think about the fastest route , surround your enemies , block off passages . It's a group effort so try not to send one of your teamates far ahead of everyone . Also read the manual . Remeber this is a ps1 game remake is a lot easier than the original . You are not going to breeze through this game . Is a strategy game . If it's too hard play the GBA/DS games .

 

[Swyftstar]

The game does indeed make you work to get your squad perfected. Once you do it's mostly just a matter of kill the mages and archers first and then clean up. I'd say it's about 75% preparation and training and 25% actual story fighting. I've gone through it at least six times. You just have to get that perfect team that you like together, leveled, with the proper skills and geared.
That said, some of the bosses and conditions are a pain. Save that stranger, oh you mean the one that keeps moving away from me and getting hit by every damn enemy on the board!

 

[galdon2004]

You think THAT's hard in FFT? Wait till you get to the bosses! I'm stuck at the second big boss, thanks to the game forcing me into that fight after coming out of a 1-on-1.

Actually, I don't have a problem with bosses that can kick you butt. If a boss in a strategy game gave me a hell of a time, it makes sense logically because he is a tough important enemy that will take a lot of effort to defeat. What has me so frustrated is that even a piddly random encounter requires you to bring your A game and can take such a long time. an hour and a half is insane considering I can't even save the game and put it down a while if I have to go do something.


@Krazykidd: I don't mean that I step forward and am still out of range; I mean I step forward, to get in range and the hidden mechanic goes off that says that I can't throw the potion from the spot I landed on. Sometimes, there isn't even anything that I can see that would obstruct the potion from being thrown but I get 00% accuracy, and cannot move someplace else to try again til next turn.

 

[Luca72]

The game will smack you around unforgivably for the first few missions (Dorter Slums made me quit for a month the first time through), and throughout the game random encounters will range from simple affairs to being tougher than story fights (those Chocobos that suck now? Later they can shoot fucking meteors). Once you get through enough missions to start customizing your characters, the game turns into a blast.

Figure out early who you want to specialize as a fighter and who should be a mage, so you can get the squire/chemist thing out of the way. Keep Ramza a squire until he learns Tailwind and Focus - if you have a really troublesome battle, you can fall back on giving speed boosts to your heaviest attacker. And I find chemists much more reliable than white mages, since they heal instantly.

You should also focus on movement controlling spells as soon as possible. This isn't like a lot of other SRPGs, where the name of the game is damage output. The most important thing here is battlefield control. Use time magic to tilt the battle in your favor. Immobilize knights, disable archers. Silence mages. Get a thief and learn "Steal Heart" so you can make an enemy a temporary ally (this is one of the best distraction tactics I've found).

You can check the turn list too if you didn't know, which is probably the most helpful thing in the game. I think you press triangle and select it when you have an empty tile highlighted. Also, if you're performing an action that takes a few turns, like a spell, highlight the spell and press Right Arrow to see when the spell will go off.

The main thing is that this game doesn't really have any standard encounters. I mean, in a typical RPG, you have lots of fights with skeletons or wolves or something that are just there to get demolished by you and give you loot and xp. Most fights in Tactics are against enemies that are evenly matched against you, until you start getting some insane class advantages. The game is very unforgiving, but richly rewarding. Stick with it for a few more levels and see if it doesn't win you over.

 

[piinyouri]

Lord I remember how hard the original FFT was.

Whole nights sometimes just wandering around fighting battles so I could get an inkling stronger and beat the campaign mission I'd been stuck on for weeks.

I finished the Deep Dungeon (or whatever it was called, the one where you cant see anything) barely, beat the game crazy easy, and there were STILL a few random encounter fights near the end that once the battlefield panned and I saw the setup, sometimes I would just reload because I knew it was hopeless.

Also no taking moves back.
THAT.
SUCKS.

 

[Solo-Wing]

Personally I like the Advanced series much more then the original FFT. But that is just me.

 

[Strain42]

When I was a kid, I played the PSX version a lot, but here's the thing...I had a GameShark, and so for me, the game was laughably simple as I leveled up quickly, my JP never depleted and I had every piece of equipment from the word Go.

I had fun breezing through the game in a way that made me feel like a god, the only fight that ever gave me any trouble at all was the one involving the assassin chicks who had attacks that no cheat code in my GameShark arsenal seemed to get around...

But I love FFT for the story. I actually put it up there as one of the best video game stories I've ever had the pleasure to experience.

Then War of the Lions came out and I was quickly reminded "Oh...right...this game is actually pretty difficult..."

 

[him over there]

Pro tip, enemy levels aren't fixed, they're based on the average of your party. So if you skew the leveling in your party and make one guy super powerful and everybody else terrible all the enemies will be inbetween. So you can power through everybody using yourmost powerful person while foddering the rest.

 

[bluepotatosack]

I thought only random encounters scaled with your characters levels. I know I've heard a few stories of random encounters becoming x times more difficult than the story missions. I'mma go look that up...

EDIT: A few story missions scale, but most do not.

 

[Cheesepower5]

Fire Emblem is much easier, unless you're playing an imported SNES copy of Thracia 776 or something like that...

But do a few random battles in FFT, raise up some monks and gang up on those damned chocobos, you ought to be fine. Some of the fights are brutal, though.